ronde 8-21-02

[KillerMuffin]

I'm not going to apologize. Okay. I feel like a total heel for not being around last week like I should have been. I'm really sorry guys, especially to ronde cause it's his turn!

ronde has a few stories up and has been a thought-provoking contributor to the Author's Hangout. Unlike your lackadaisical moderator who seems to prefer wasting time on the General Board.

So, here we go!

ronde:

I have been writing for a little over a year, and have read the reviews here as well as reviewed two stories myself. I have enjoyed comparing my reviews with those of others, and it would be interesting and helpful to receive the same on some of my work. I would like to offer my latest story as a subject. It has received a high vote tally, but I don't put much faith in votes as a measure of technical merit, and would appreciate any comments that would help me improve.

The story is one in a series of the tales of a private investigator in Nashville, Tennessee, and can be found at:


http://literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=52356

My questions for the reviewers are:

Does the story hold your attention?

Is the erotic content sufficient and realistic?

What technical errors did you find?

Any other comments are welcome.

Thanks,

Ronde

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

ronde,

This was a unique, interesting read with colorful characters and nice descriptions of people, places and things and it held my attention. However, it needs some tightening up and at times seemed to be wandering around looking for a plot.

Here are a few specific nuts and aches.

--

IMHO, the introduction and several paragraphs are too long.

--

The story has a lot of “fat,” that is unnecessary words, such as:

“This means that I read the notes I had scribbled on the desk blotter calendar in the little box for Monday.”

That sentence might have been written, “This means reading the notes for Monday scribbled on the desk blotter calendar.”

--

IMHO, the word “I” is over used; a common problem with first person but one that can be handled. For instance: “I felt the couch cushions under me, so I was reasonably sure I was home,” could be rewritten to eliminate two of those “I’s”.

“The familiar feel of the couch cushions made me reasonably sure I was home.”

--

It takes a long time for the plot to emerge with Carla and especially Melody not coming on stage until the second half. And while Jennifer and Melvin are an “interesting” couple, and Rose is a first-rate character, what do they and their episode have to do with the story?
--

I don’t know about Melvin’s family, but in south Louisiana, Tibbideau is spelled, “Thibodaux.”

--

A couple of typos:

“stick a pool cue up yur sweet li'l butt out (OMIT “out”) and throw you out the door”

“what once was a small farm house” (IS IT NOW A BIG FARM HOUSE?)

--

There’s no indication when scene shifts occur. For instance:

“Jennifer blushed, absently rubbed two fingers over her left nipple, and said, "Well, I gotta go. Thanks for the fifty", and almost slammed the door in my face.”

”The next note was "Continental,JS". I had gotten this call on my answering machine on Friday, and called Continental Insurance to get the details and purchase order.”

The term “next note” refers back to the fourth paragraph. Odds are, most readers won’t remember that which means they will get confused.

--

Nuts and aches aside, it was a fun read. Keep up the good work.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[abashed-dreamer]

Well, Ronde,

That's a very credible effort. One of the better ones I've seen here. The 'Mike Hammer turned Southern dick' style has lots of fresh spots and earthy similes.
Also, may I congratulate you on trying to tell a story (and succeding), not just set-ups for sex scenes. I think parts of the story will stick in my mind, which is not true of 95% of what I read in 'porn-erotica.'

I agree with RF that it's a little verbose and sprawling; but I found myself skipping some of the detail. Each scene/incident is intriguing, with its cast of characters, but there is no real connecting in most cases. The termite inspection doesn't lead anywhere, except to a new assignment at the end.

I suppose I wonder if it's a detective story with some hotspots or a work of erotica embedded in a detective story. The impression is of the former, which may be your intent.

The characters are often of interest, if a little towards 'red neck' or 'white trash' stereotype. The women are somewhat less distinctive in respect of character, e.g. Melody and Carly (though you give M an abuse history). Your basic 'hot babe who wants it all the time' with the odd wrinkle (two are lesbian). Almost all, of course have bulging tits, but I guess that's erotica, for ya.

Some of the end is a bit contrived, that Melody will work there, and has found a place next door to live, Carly just happening to own the building.

My own reaction to the sex scenes was muted, and I'm not sure why. They seem to read well, without much in cliche. I can't quite put a finger on it, but perhaps it's the rather dry style of the the narrator. Yes, he blows his load, cant walk, etc., yet he (the voice) seems fairly detached, cynical, world-weary. Maybe a style shift (in crucial scenes), shorter sentences, for instance, would help. That's assuming you're after erotic effect, not mainly telling a detective yarn.

Keep up the excellent work, and I will definitely look at more of your stories, esp. ones a little shorter.!

 

[ronde]

Thanks and a question

Thank you, RF and AD for your reviews. They show that fresh eyes are worth much, and also that one can not presuppose a reader's interpretation. I agree with both assessments, and will attempt improvement in my future work. I especially hang my head at the "out" RF found.

I am pleased that AD found the character of Jase as she described, because that is the way I picture him, and is the character I attempted to write. AD, I would answer your question about my intent by saying that my stories tend to be plots spiced with some erotic content rather than the reverse.

I do have a question that I ask, not in defense, but as a question of technique and it's application to short stories. I am interested in both your opinions as well as those of authors who may read this thread.

The introduction and side story about Jennifer and Melvin was an attempt to define some of Jase's character by putting him in a couple of circumstances and allowing him to work through them. I find it somewhat cumbersome in 1st person to have the character describe himself, and tried to substitute this technique. My question is, can this "story within a story" work for short stories, or does it take too many words?

Thanks again for your perceptions, and more importantly, for your honesty in stating them.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

ronde,

I'm glad some of my stuff was helpful, although I didn't mean to "out" you.

As for your question, my hunch, and it's strictly the IMHO type hunch of someone who doesn't write short stories, is to avoid that type of "side story". The only exception I might suggest is if you were writing a first person novel and opened with a side story to establish mood and/or the character's personality.

Any other use could, again IMHO, become very confusing. There's an old line about writing that goes something like, "If a gun appears in the first chapter, it better kill someone pretty soon."

The problem with a "side story" is that it can throw the reader out of the main story line. With your story, for instance, I kept wondering when and how Jennifer and Melvin would come back into the story.

Hope some of that helped.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[Pure]

Excuse me for joining in late. I don't want to get into all the composition issues mentioned by AD and RF. Let me just say I really enjoyed the yarn and all its subyarns, and wasn't bored at all, given the precision of detail, and loving lustful descriptions of pussies. It was quite captivating!


As to your question about side story:

I basically agree with RF.
A novel of 20 chapters, I suppose, can take a chapter or two of side story.
But a short story's side story better be rather short, almost a vignette. And in fact, if each scene is to 'matter' in relation to the final unfolding, it may be best to avoid a side story and use a relevant incident that contributes to the development of character or plot, heightens tension or whatever. You did this with the Melody episodes.

The termite story shows the guy is clever, quick witted, good at lying, able to 'read' a trailer park character, and get them to 'spill the goods.' Yet if you think about it, those qualities could have been brought out in the other early scenes.

Your point is well taken, I think. It's very awkward for most characters to self describe: "I'm your honest type; never stole a thing in my life, except a paperclip from my third grade teacher."
So the route you took, to illustrate in action, is a fine and preferred route. Good work! Another is to use other characters' talk.

"You want me to introduce you to that woman, but you and I know you'd have to lie about being married. And you're so goddamn honest, you'd never do that."

"Introduce you to another? After the five babes you shagged last week, you want more action?"

 

[Pure]

If you want a list of small errors, besides RF's:

[quotes from story]

a special class all it's own,

to examin it for clues

this cause a whole new series

Her's didn't have that

started back to the chaise-lounge

" [...] I said, well, you squeeze yours, don't you? She said yes, but she thought it was probably different, especially if they were as big as mine. I said, well, it's just us girls here, go ahead."

NOTE: The story is, in fact, one of the better proof-read ones around these parts, but I couldn't resist!

 

[ronde]

Thanks again, RF and thanks to you, Pure for answering my question. Your opinions may be humble but they make sense, and I will use them in my future work.

Thanks for the compliments, Pure. They almost make up for the red face I'm wearing after reading the list of errors. I understand the temptation, and appreciate the fact that you took the time to seek them out. The normal feedback I get is a great help toward improvement, but good appraisals such as I have received in these three critiques are invaluable.

 

[Just_John1]

The Case...

Ronde,

Great story, a good read overall. Didn't find many typos, there are a few but they are not distracting. I like your writing style, you tell a good story.

I struggled a bit where you informed the reader that she wanted your body or wanted to get to know you repeatedly. This tapers off towards the latter half of the story but I found it distracting. I found that the action in the story had already given that impression and found those statements took away from, as opposed to contributing to, the story. A minor detail but I definitely noticed it.

In the beginning I found the multiple paths that you build in your story to be a bit confusing and distracting. I was building, for lack of better description, a relationship with Jase, looking for similarities in our personalities, but struggled to lock onto the true story line which distracted me while I read the story. I expected the various story lines to come back and be tied up but some were left hanging. Although I'm glad I stuck with it, if I wasn't reading it for a review I doubt that I would have finished it.

I turned out to be a great story, one of the better ones I've read but was just a tad too complicated to follow. Simplify a bit, tie up the lose ends of the side stories a little earlier and help the reader to figure out who to spend time on and your readership will probably rise.

Don't get me wrong, the story was definitely a good read. I enjoyed it.

 

[Jocund Day]

"Jase" is unusual, one must focus on how it is pronounced, it interrupts the flow of the language. The essence of tough-guy noir is a masculine simplicity of expression, a matter-of-fact, take it or leave, tell it like it is semantic restraint that acts to raise the insightful, the beautiful, the original above the gloom. (See Garrison Keilllor's "Guy Noir" stories). "Jase" is far too precious.

Cut "Tennessee." Nashville is one of those cities that need no further exposition.

I like "polish her pipes, so to speak." Noir is an historical genre, with its roots in a mid-twentieth century American milieu which demanded sexual innuendo. "Polish her pipes" is pithy, original, alliterative, lyrical; "so to speak" is the wink which interesting innuendo requires.

Your first paragraph lays out the basics, draws one into the narrative, but maybe does it a bit brusquely. My suggestion would be to structure the opening like an inverted pyramid. First, describe the city, then describe the building, then describe the receptionist, then the man, then the situation, all the while employing this pace to dazzle us with the stylized language that is noir's raison d'etre, so to speak.

Let me know if you'd like me to do the entire story. This type of feedback isn't every ones cup of tea.

Joc
jocundday@yahoo.com

 

[ronde]

These reviews are a humbling but very rewarding experience.

Thanks to JJ1 for reinforcing the other comments relative to my introduction. Your difficulties with this portion were stated somewhat differently, and I can see this side of the problem as well. Thanks also for the comments relative to my superfluous statements of points already made. I appreciate your comments and will take them to heart.

Jocund Day, your initial comments are interesting because they pertain to the atmosphere I tried to create as much as to the mechanics of the story, and I would indeed be interested in hearing more. I willingly submitted to this public flaying in the interest of improvement, and any comments, advice, etc. will surely be of assistance in accomplishing this goal. All the critiques I have received to date have been accurate and informative, and I'm sure your's will be the same.

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

I liked it.
As some others have said, I think it could be tightened.
The side story about the straying daughter probably didn't
need to be told.
The first visit to Barney's went on too long. Could you start a
little earlier and have Carla's last visit onstage, instead
of being described as a realationship? The first
surveilance could be described in a much shorter fashion.
This is totally picky, but do a global search on
"run and Coke."

 

[ronde]

Thanks, UP for your comments. No one else caught the "run and coke" thing that has me red with embarassment.

I will probably write another in this vein at some time or another, and will keep your ideas in mind when I do so.

To all the other authors who took the time to offer their insight and opinions, I truly appreciate the effort. Hopefully I can do justice to your recommendations in future work.