Rip Dadt

[3113]

I wouldn't say "rest in peace" so much as "rest in purgatory" which is pretty much where DADT put most innocent service men and women. Here's to it's timely demise--it should have never, ever taken this long.

With Tuesday's repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, gays and lesbians are now free to serve openly in the U.S. armed services. The U.S. military has spent months preparing for the repeal, updating regulations and training to reflect the impending change, and the Pentagon has already begun accepting applications from openly gay men and women.

The historic shift follows years of battle and debate over the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, also referred to as "DADT." When it was signed by President Clinton in 1993, the policy was hailed by proponents for extending protection to gays and lesbians serving their country. Under the law, commanders were not allowed to ask about someone's sexual orientation, and gays and lesbians were expected to keep their orientation under wraps.

But as gays and lesbians continued to fight for equal rights in other areas of society, the "don't ask, don't tell" policy grew to become a painful reminder that those in the military still had to hide their sexual orientation. Moreover, gays and lesbians who were open about their sexual orientation -- or who were outed -- faced punishment and expulsion.

Such punishments and expulsions will now stop. And the repeal ends any pending investigations or inquiries.

 

[3113]

Marijuana Shops Lower Crime Rates!

Error!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yes

 

[Handley_Page]

I'm not sure quite WHY the subject of a person's sexual orientation is a necessary subject for discussion. It's got nothing to do with the job in hand, has it ("can you fly this airplane - No - 'cos I'm gay ") ?

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not sure quite WHY the subject of a person's sexual orientation is a necessary subject for discussion. It's got nothing to do with the job in hand, has it ("can you fly this airplane - No - 'cos I'm gay ") ?

Well, yes, if the job in hand requires teamwork in crisis, it does become an issue. I don't think its useful to trivialize reality--or to just legislate it away. It certainly doesn't help the gay soldier dropped into a real crisis that wasn't scripted by Disney and who winds up being fragged.

 

[lovecraft68]

I figured the best part of it being eliminated would be people would stop talking about it. Guess I was being naive.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Now all can serve who want to. And the question of 'what about a crisis situation' is naive. Female soldiers serve in combat (even though they aren't supposed to-but ask the Taliban about that . . . ) and that has yet to be an issue. A straight male isn't going to have any more worries about being hit on than a female MP does when the shooting starts. Come on, Pilot, you know better than that . . . though having never been in uniform, you might not.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not sure quite WHY the subject of a person's sexual orientation is a necessary subject for discussion. It's got nothing to do with the job in hand, has it ("can you fly this airplane - No - 'cos I'm gay ") ?

You ought to know by now that the dialogue goes the other way; "Why can't I fly this airplane?" "Because you're gay."

Which makes "why" a moot question.

 

[sr71plt]

Sorry, I have to laugh heartily at the suggestion that I am naive about real life for a GM in government service (especially government service in a team crisis). Naive is thinking you can legislate attitudes and fears--and responses motivated by them.

We've had this discussion on the board before, though, and I've seen the Pollyanas and those with no knowledge of the real world in this sense at all pontificate on how the repeal of DADT is just going to turn it all around. I have a bridge you might be interest in buying.

Repeal is good and necessary, yes, but we're not on the set of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory here.

But if it makes you feel better that you contributed to making it all all right . . .

And, again, I laugh at you telling me I'm naive about this.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Any man with a lick of sense is going to be extremely careful in who he comes out to, regardless of the ending of this ruling.

The problem with DADT was not that it kept troops in the closet, but that it added one further measure of jeopardy to a gay serviceman's life.

With DADT gone his sexual identity is no longer something the brass can use against him, and also-- no longer something that MUST be acted upon. Many leaders don't really want to lose their service people, and have had to turn a blind eye to some forms of abuse in the ranks because acting on it would mean they had to bring a man's identity into official focus.

that's one aspect, anyway, out of many.

 

[3113]

Well, yes, if the job in hand requires teamwork in crisis, it does become an issue.

Come, come now, sr7! Not being naive, you certainly know that all studies since the 1959 MacCoun Study have consistently concluded that homosexuals in the military would have no effect on unit cohesion. And just because the opposite may seem more realistic doesn't mean that it is. For example, it seems realistic to believe that if someone drops a larger rock and a smaller rock at the same time the larger rock will hit the ground first. Yet that's not so. It's not realistic.

And I don't see where anyone on this particular thread has Pollyannishly asserted that the repeal of DADT would magically do anything. Everyone here seems to understand that changes in legal policy won't change the human propensity for bigotry. There seems no reason to accuse anyone of thinking that there will be some sort of Disney-esque conclusion to all this?

 

[TE999]

Rip Dadt sounds like the name of a character in a shoot-em-up action story.

"Rip Dadt banked his Spitfire fighter and fired a long burst of tracers into the attacking Messerschmitt Me-109, watching with grim satisfaction as it spiraled into the ground trailing smoke and flame and exploded."

"Nice shooting, Rip," crackled the voice of Wing Commander Barnes in his headphones.

"One less of the bloody Huns," Rip replied with a grin.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Rip Dadt sounds like the name of a character in a shoot-em-up action story.

"Rip Dadt banked his Spitfire fighter and fired a long burst of tracers into the attacking Messerschmitt Me-109, watching with grim satisfaction as it spiraled into the ground trailing smoke and flame and exploded."

"Nice shooting, Rip," crackled the voice of Wing Commander Barnes in his headphones.

"One less of the bloody Huns," Rip replied with a grin.

I was thinking more along the lines of some character from "Tales of the Gold Monkey".

 

[TE999]

I was thinking more along the lines of some character from "Tales of the Gold Monkey".

That works, or Rip could be one of Doc Savage's sidekicks.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I'm not sure quite WHY the subject of a person's sexual orientation is a necessary subject for discussion. It's got nothing to do with the job in hand, has it ("can you fly this airplane - No - 'cos I'm gay ") ?

I don't believe it was ever so much on the job as it was a matter of in quarters. I joined the Air Force in 1957, and I can't help thinking if I had been in the shower and some guy came in and I realized he was lusting for me, I probably would have half killed him. Of course, I had a lot more hair and a lot less stomach back then. Now, I would probably feel complimented.

And please don't tell me gay men are only interested in other gay men. I was hit on plenty when I left the AF and started living in San Francisco. It didn't bother me then, partly because I was no longer 17 years old and partly because I was always fully dressed.