Right now on CBS' Sixty Minutes: The man who pulled strings to get GWB into the Guard

[shereads]

Watch it and think, Swift Boaters for Bush: he cheated his way out of Vietnam and someone went in his place. Maybe one of you.

Last year GWB said his family did not use political influence to get him to the head of a long line for National Guard service in the weeks before his draft deferment would have expired. He lied.

It's on TV now.

 

[yui]

Well, then, if it's on TV...

 

[shereads]

Big-screen. Not plasma, but fairly good definition. You could make out the lying really well.

 

[shereads]

And now it's in print. Gotcha.

Records Say Bush Balked at Order
National Guard Commander Suspended Him From Flying, Papers Show

By Michael Dobbs and Thomas B. Edsall
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, September 9, 2004; Page A01


President Bush failed to carry out a direct order from his superior in the Texas Air National Guard in May 1972 to undertake a medical examination that was necessary for him to remain a qualified pilot, according to documents made public yesterday.

Documents obtained by the CBS News program "60 Minutes" shed new light on one of the most controversial episodes in Bush's military service, when he abruptly stopped flying and moved from Texas to Alabama to work on a political campaign. The documents include a memo from Bush's squadron commander, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, ordering Bush "to be suspended from flight status for failure to perform" to U.S. Air Force and National Guard standards and failure to take his annual physical "as ordered."

The new documents surfaced as the Bush administration released for the first time the president's personal flight logs, which have been the focus of repeated archival searches and Freedom of Information Act requests dating to the 2000 presidential campaign. The logs show that Bush stopped flying in April 1972 after accumulating more than 570 hours of flight time between 1969 and 1972, much of it on an F-102 interceptor jet.

White House officials have said there was no reason for Bush to take the annual physical required of fighter pilots because there were no suitable planes for him to fly in Alabama, where he applied for "substitute training" to replace his required service with the Texas National Guard. But the new documents suggest that Bush's transfer to non-flight duties in Alabama was the subject of arguments between his National Guard superiors.

Release of the documents came as Democrats and some veterans stepped up their criticism of Bush for allegedly failing to meet his sworn obligations to the Texas Air National Guard. A new advocacy group called Texans for Truth, which has links to anti-Bush groups such as MoveOn.org, yesterday unveiled a TV ad to be screened in swing states claiming that Bush failed to show up for Guard duty in Alabama.

White House officials dismissed the latest criticism of Bush's service as partisan attacks in the midst of a heated campaign. In an interview with "60 Minutes," White House communications director Dan Bartlett said "partisan Democrats" were "recycling the very same charges we hear every time President Bush runs for reelection. It is dirty politics." But he did not contest the authenticity of the documents, which could not be verified independently by The Washington Post.

A spokeswoman for "60 Minutes," Kelli Edwards, declined to say exactly how the new documents were obtained other than that CBS News understood they had been taken from Killian's "personal office file." In addition to the order to Bush to report for a physical, the documents include various memos from Killian describing his conversations with Bush and other National Guard officers about Bush's attempts to secure a transfer to Alabama. Killian died in 1984.

"Phone call from Bush," Killian recorded in a "memo to file" dated May 19, 1972. "Discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November."

According to "60 Minutes," Killian's personal files show that he ordered Bush "suspended from flight status" on Aug. 1, 1972. National Guard documents already released by the White House and the Pentagon show that Bush was suspended from flight status on that day for "failure to accomplish annual medical examination" but do not mention his alleged failure to comply with National Guard and Air Force standards.

In another "memo to file," dated Aug. 18, 1973, Killian complained that he was under pressure from his superior, Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, to "sugar coat" Bush's officer evaluations. "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job," he wrote in a memo titled "CYA." "I will not rate."

Staudt has insisted that he was not influenced by Bush's status as the son of George H.W. Bush (R), a Texas congressman in 1968 and later head of the CIA. He has also rejected claims by former Texas lieutenant governor Ben Barnes (D) that he intervened with the head of the Texas Air National Guard to secure a position for Bush there at the request of a Bush family friend. Barnes, who has raised money for Democrat John F. Kerry's presidential campaign, repeated the claim last night on "60 Minutes."

In releasing Bush's flight records, White House spokesmen yesterday expressed frustration over what they depicted as the Pentagon's failure to produce a full and complete record of the president's military service.

"It's clear that DOD [the Department of Defense] did not undertake as comprehensive a search as had been directed by the president," said White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan, just days after assuring The Post that Bush's full personnel file had already been released. "We have again asked that they ensure that any and all documents [relating to Bush's military service] are identified and released."

A Pentagon spokeswoman, Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, said Bush's flight logs were found at the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, which is the central repository for veterans' records. She said the logs were found among a batch of records sent to St. Louis from Norton Air Force Base in 1993, which were originally thought to contain records of active-duty officers rather than of National Guardsmen such as Bush.

The Bush administration has issued government-wide instructions centralizing the release of information relating to the president's service with the Texas Air National Guard between 1968 and 1973. Officers responsible for implementing the Freedom of Information Act for the National Guard and the Pentagon declined to respond to queries from The Post last week on the completeness of the president's records, referring a reporter instead to Krenke and the White House press office.

The new TV commercial by Texans for Truth, to be aired on $110,000 worth of television time in battleground cities such as Harrisburg, Pa., and Columbus, Ohio, shows Bob Mintz, who served as a lieutenant in the Alabama Air National Guard at the same time Bush was supposed to be serving, speaking to the camera:

"I heard George W. Bush get up there and say, 'I served in the 187th Air National Guard in Montgomery, Alabama.' I said, 'Really, that was my unit? And I don't remember seeing you there.' "

Steve Schmidt, a spokesman for the Bush-Cheney campaign, charged that Texans for Truth "is a front group for MoveOn.org that has spent tens of millions of dollars attacking the president. . . . This is a smear group launching baseless attacks on behalf of John Kerry's campaign that will be rejected by the American people."

Glenn Smith, the head of Texans for Truth, is a former political reporter for the Houston Chronicle and Houston Post and has been a Democratic consultant, working on a variety of campaigns in Texas and other states. He ran Tony Sanchez's unsuccessful bid for Texas governor in 2002.

Smith said he was angry over ads created by another advocacy group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, attacking Kerry's service in the Vietnam War.

In a conference call with reporters, Democratic National Committee Chairman Terence McAuliffe said "the relentless negative attacks" on Kerry "had made the president's service, or lack thereof, completely fair game."

Republican National Committee communications director Jim Dyke countered that "McAuliffe has a long history of false and reckless statements."

Staff writers James Grimaldi and Howard Kurtz and researcher Alice Crites contributed to this report.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I heard that a group called "Spoiled Rich Drunken Frat Boys For Truth" has come out saying that George W. wasn't really much of a coke-head.

---dr.M.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

I heard that a group called "Spoiled Rich Drunken Frat Boys For Truth" has come out saying that George W. wasn't really much of a coke-head. ---dr.M.

Even a pharmaceutically-enchanted intellect is, to some extent, dependant upon the original material.

 

[GingerV]

Part of me doesn't care how the guy's gotten out of office. And I know that his behaviour on this subject shows contempt both for the American people and for basic truth. I understand that the attitude here is indicative of his attitude to everything Really. But I try to be bigger than that.

I can't be the only person who'd breath a huge sigh of relief if Kerry, the press, or really just anyone would come out, guns blazing, and condemn this administration on the sins committed IN OFFICE? I can't believe that anyone more is going to be surprised or swayed at the new proof that Bush was too high to fly in his 20s. How does this get more coverage than admissions by the US military that Iraq is covered in no-go zones, and that our administration of the country has been a record setting failure?

Then again, I didn't much care what Clinton did with his dick either. So maybe I'm just an oddball.

G

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I find most all of those commercials annoying. Woo. Propoganda train. Go, go, go.

 

[Guest]

It's all about bush with you lot, in't it?

 

[Guest]

It's all about bush with you lot, in't it?

CV -

You know it always comes down to sex.

Bottom line.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... it always comes down to sex. Bottom line.

I always thought of the bottom line as being more about the possession of assthetic appeal than about actual sex.

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Seems now that all of those documents may have been forged. Regardless of who did it (if they are forged) Kerry will get hurt by it.

MSNBC

 

[Guest]

assthetic appeal

Now you're pushing a bit.

 

[shereads]

Seems now that all of those documents may have been forged. Regardless of who did it (if they are forged) Kerry will get hurt by it.

MSNBC

It wasn't the documents that impressed, but the confession by the man who did the Sixty Minutes interview.

The forgery story was refuted by NBC a minute after they stated it. But you're right, all they needed to do was give the word "forgery" a national airing, and the damage was done.

Nevertheless, the fact remains that someone has come forward to say he helped GWB and other young men from influential families skip to the head of a long line for admission to the Guard. Which means, as I've said all along, that somebody who did things by the book got kicked into the draft lottery in GWB's place - and possibly died in Vietnam in his place as well.


Bill Clinton, in his autobiography, has the courage to say of his own choice to avoid Vietnam by use of the college deferment, "I will always wonder whether I avoided going to Vietnam out of conviction or cowardice."

Imagine Bush having the courage to say such a thing. He was and is a spineless, self-serving mamma's boy.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by shereads
He was and is a spineless, self-serving mamma's boy.

...and the elected President of the United States. Heh.

 

[Guest]

...and the elected President of the United States. Heh.

Frightening, isn't it?

 

[Edward Teach]

Re: Right now on CBS' Sixty Minutes: The man who pulled strings to get GWB into the Guard

Watch it and think, Swift Boaters for Bush: he cheated his way out of Vietnam and someone went in his place. Maybe one of you.

Last year GWB said his family did not use political influence to get him to the head of a long line for National Guard service in the weeks before his draft deferment would have expired. He lied.

It's on TV now.

You don’t understand.

GWB was born again and found Christ at age 40. Everything in his past is forgiven and he is a great man. Jerry Falwell said so.

GWB may even be as great as Ronald Reagan. Karl Rove said so.

John Kerry is a Catholic. That’s not as bad as being an atheist or a Jew but it’s close. He takes orders from the Pope.

Them liberal Kennedy’s are Catholics and that liberal ass Hillary probably sleeps with some. And that sorry ass Bill Clinton carries a bible to church every Sunday and reads it but you can tell by looking that he just does it for show. Fucking hypocrite.

GWB doesn’t have to read the bible to prove his faith, he was born again and found Christ at age 40. He is a great man.

Ed (only born once)

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Re: Re: Right now on CBS' Sixty Minutes: The man who pulled strings to get GWB into the Guard

Originally posted by Edward Teach

GWB doesn’t have to read the bible to prove his faith, he was born again and found Christ at age 40. He is a great man.

Possibly true. He may well be divinely inspired.

 

[Edward Teach]

Seems now that all of those documents may have been forged. Regardless of who did it (if they are forged) Kerry will get hurt by it.

MSNBC

As to the forgery:

What was questioned was the use of the superscript "th," proportional spacing and Times New Roman font. The claim being that 1970 typewriters didn't have those features, therefore the documents must have been produced by a word processor and were forgeries.

It has since been revealed that there were typewriters in 1970 with a th superscript key. In fact, some of the documents produced by the Bush White House to support Bush’s National Guard service dated 1968 have the th superscript in them.

Times New Roman was around in 1970. It has been available since 1931.

I personally remember typewriters with proportional spacing and superscript th keys. The IBM Selectric utilized an exchangeable "ball" available in many different fonts. It was probably the most popular typewriter then, surely used by the government. Hell, IBM was awarded government bids on everything. Kinda like Haliburton today.

But, as you state, the damage is done, now. All it took was the word "forgery" and the media jumped all over it. Fox and NBC are still promoting the story.

Ed

 

[Edward Teach]

Re: Re: Re: Right now on CBS' Sixty Minutes: The man who pulled strings to get GWB into the Guard

Possibly true. He may well be divinely inspired.

He does seem to speak in tongues occasionally.

 

[shereads]

Gotcha.

This thread was just bait to lure Teach back to the AH.

 

[Edward Teach]

Gotcha.

This thread was just bait to lure Teach back to the AH.

I'll be thinking about you the next few days, Sher. Hope all goes well and FL is spared this time.

Ed

 

[shereads]

What? Did I miss something? A threat to Florida?



The most noticable side-effect of having three hurricane threats within three weeks, Teach, is that local politicians are stumbling all over themselves to call the first and fastest evacuation. When the mandatory evacuation was ordered in the Keys, it was still far too early to know that people were being sent out of harm's way and not INTO it - as happened before Hurricane Andrew, when Keys residents were ordered to leave, and ended up at dead-center of the bullseye, in Homestead, Florida City and South Miami.

I asked a friend in the Keys why the sheriff of Monroe County would risk sending people upstate when there's still uncertainty about whether they'll be in more danger. He said, "As long as they die up there and not down here, he'll be a hero."

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

He was and is a spineless, self-serving mamma's boy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... and the elected President of the United States. Heh

DAMN!

It's BLOODY difficult to keep you honest, isn't it Joe?

Not ELECTED President of the United States.

ANOINTED by the Supreme Court, with almost as much due process as a lynch mob.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by Virtual_Burlesque
DAMN!

It's BLOODY difficult to keep you honest, isn't it Joe?

Not ELECTED President of the United States.

ANOINTED by the Supreme Court, with almost as much due process as a lynch mob.

Honest? I admit there's a chance of being inaccurate, but I'm not lying. Bit of an over-reaction there, don't you think?

Past that, wasn't he elected? Did he not have more electoral votes than Gore? Perhaps I am mistaken.