Rev. Wright is treasonous, but white evangelicals are patriotic?

Ulaven_Demorte

Non-Prophet Organization
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Excepts from an article by Frank Schaeffer.

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

Consider a few passages from my father's immensely influential America-bashing book A Christian Manifesto. It sailed under the radar of the major media who, back when it was published in 1980, were not paying particular attention to best-selling religious books. Nevertheless it sold more than a million copies.

Here's Dad writing in his chapter on civil disobedience:

If there is a legitimate reason for the use of force [against the US government]... then at a certain point force is justifiable.

and this..

In the United States the materialistic, humanistic world view is being taught exclusively in most state schools... There is an obvious parallel between this and the situation in Russia [the USSR]. And we really must not be blind to the fact that indeed in the public schools in the United States all religious influence is as forcibly forbidden as in the Soviet Union....

then this:

There does come a time when force, even physical force, is appropriate... A true Christian in Hitler's Germany and in the occupied countries should have defied the false and counterfeit state. This brings us to a current issue that is crucial for the future of the church in the United States, the issue of abortion... It is time we consciously realize that when any office commands what is contrary to God's law it abrogates it's authority. And our loyalty to the God who gave this law then requires that we make the appropriate response in that situation...

Was any conservative political leader associated with Dad running for cover? Far from it. Dad was a frequent guest of the Kemps, had lunch with the Fords, stayed in the White House as their guest, he met with Reagan, helped Dr. C. Everett Koop become Surgeon General. (I went on the 700 Club several times to generate support for Koop).

Dad became a hero to the evangelical community and a leading political instigator. When Dad died in 1984 everyone from Reagan to Kemp to Billy Graham lamented his passing publicly as the loss of a great American. Not one Republican leader was ever asked to denounce my dad or distanced himself from Dad's statements.

Take Dad's words and put them in the mouth of Obama's preacher (or in the mouth of any black American preacher) and people would be accusing that preacher of treason. Yet when we of the white Religious Right denounced America white conservative Americans and top political leaders, called our words "godly" and "prophetic" and a "call to repentance."

We Republican agitators of the mid 1970s to the late 1980s were genuinely anti-American in the same spirit that later Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (both followers of my father) were anti-American when they said God had removed his blessing from America on 9/11, because America accepted gays. Falwell and Robertson recanted but we never did.

My dad's books denouncing America and comparing the USA to Hitler are still best sellers in the "respectable" evangelical community and he's still hailed as a prophet by many Republican leaders. When Mike Huckabee was recently asked by Katie Couric to name one book he'd take with him to a desert island, besides the Bible, he named Dad's Whatever Happened to the Human Race? a book where Dad also compared America to Hitler's Germany.

The hypocrisy of the right denouncing Obama, because of his minister's words, is staggering. They are the same people who argue for the right to "bear arms" as "insurance" to limit government power. They are the same people that (in the early 1980s roared and cheered when I called down damnation on America as "fallen away from God" at their national meetings where I was keynote speaker, including the annual meeting of the ultraconservative Southern Baptist convention, and the religious broadcasters that I addressed.

Today we have a marriage of convenience between the right wing fundamentalists who hate Obama, and the "progressive" Clintons who are playing the race card through their own smear machine. As Jane Smiley writes in the Huffington Post "[The Clinton's] are, indeed, now part of the 'vast right wing conspiracy.'

Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the "scandal" of Obama's preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama's minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days.

Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author of "CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back.
 
I thought Busybody did long C&P jobs.

The religious right as a political phenomenon is so 20th century. This appears to be a backward looking piece, whereas we're talking here and now, here, and now.
 
I thought Busybody did long C&P jobs.

The religious right as a political phenomenon is so 20th century. This appears to be a backward looking piece, whereas we're talking here and now, here, and now.

I believe the Rev Wright is retired in the here and now.
 
I believe the Rev Wright is retired in the here and now.

That sounds right. A recent development though.

I'm not particularly concerned about his remarks. He's a whack job, and that doesn't carry over to Obama, IMHO.
 
I thought Busybody did long C&P jobs.

The religious right as a political phenomenon is so 20th century. This appears to be a backward looking piece, whereas we're talking here and now, here, and now.

If several paragraphs are much too long then you should probably refrain from political threads.

The author makes a very good point and has a unique perspective on the subject, being the son of and past evangelical minister himself.
 
Well, I imagine that if a white candidate endorsed this guy, they might be called out on it. The nature of running for president and all.
 
Plenty of "evangelicals" and family values activists (which the article you cite) are non-white. Some aren't even Christian. So why is race brought into it?
 
I don't care what any of them have to say but I personally think that the one who speaks out against the government, whether right or wrong is the most patriotic. Simply following along is not always being a patriot. Sometimes it is but others...not so much.
 
I don't think the Dems have learned from the Republicans' skill in pandering to religious voters and giving themselves enough distance from specific religious leaders to allow them to not be associated with the uglier and more reprehensible positions (e.g. AIDS was visited upon homosexuals because of their sinfulness, that the U.S. deserved 9/11, etc.). If George Bush had gone to Pat Robertson's church, you'd better believe he'd have taken serious political damage.
 
I don't think the Dems have learned from the Republicans' skill in pandering to religious voters and giving themselves enough distance from specific religious leaders to allow them to not be associated with the uglier and more reprehensible positions (e.g. AIDS was visited upon homosexuals because of their sinfulness, that the U.S. deserved 9/11, etc.). If George Bush had gone to Pat Robertson's church, you'd better believe he'd have taken serious political damage.

The 'true believers' just don't understand that simple fact Ollie. You are judged by who you associate with. That's a truism for any aspirant of high office.

Obama is in a corner and it is going to take every ounce of his considerable skill to get himself out of that corner. He spent 20 years getting there.

These lame ass attempts at trying to draw some sort of moral equivalence doesn't cut it. Neither does the attempts to dodge the issue by saying, "Well, I didn't hear that sermon."

I'd like to think that Obama is going to tackle this head on and with forthrightness, but I fear he isn't. I think he's going to do the equivalent of, "I DID NOT have sex with that woman."

Ishmael
 
the uglier and more reprehensible positions (e.g. AIDS was visited upon homosexuals because of their sinfulness, that the U.S. deserved 9/11, etc.).

So you don't think STDs result from people's behavioral choices? They aren't, for the most part, preventable?

You also don't believe that 9/11 was the unleashing of pent up rage from Islamic people for 50 years of our support for Israel and other disrespect and unfair treament to them?

I don't see what so "ugly" about these two statements.
 
So you don't think STDs result from people's behavioral choices? They aren't, for the most part, preventable?

You also don't believe that 9/11 was the unleashing of pent up rage from Islamic people for 50 years of our support for Israel and other disrespect and unfair treament to them?

I don't see what so "ugly" about these two statements.

I think you'd best go to youtube and listen to Rev. Wrights sermons. What you're talking about and what Ollie is refering to are two different things.

Ishmael
 
I think Republicans are, as usual, being blatantly hypocritical about Obama's pastor. President Bush is on Franklin Graham like a priest on an altar boy, and Graham has said plenty of inflamatory, hateful, whacked-out things.

And McCain has sought and gladly embraced the endorsements of preachers who masturbate to the idea of a holy war as a means to end the world.

Republicans aren't shy at all about hanging out with holy con men and godly bigots. It's what their Bible-deluded base demands.
 
I think Republicans are, as usual, being blatantly hypocritical about Obama's pastor. President Bush is on Franklin Graham like a priest on an altar boy, and Graham has said plenty of inflamatory, hateful, whacked-out things.

And McCain has sought and gladly embraced the endorsements of preachers who masturbate to the idea of a holy war as a means to end the world.

Republicans aren't shy at all about hanging out with holy con men and godly bigots. It's what their Bible-deluded base demands.

You haven't thought in years.

It's the democrats that are going to react to this. The Republicans won't even start until after the convention, assuming he gets the nomination.

Ishmael
 
You haven't thought in years.

It's the democrats that are going to react to this. The Republicans won't even start until after the convention, assuming he gets the nomination.

Ishmael

Please.. You can't seriously be trying to say that the "Conservatives" aren't fanning this dying ember and hoping for a forest fire.

Disingenuous is your middle name isn't it?
 
Yes and some current ones that McCain is pandering to spout similar things but it's done in a way that gets glossed over because they appear to be more "mainstream".

Roland Martin made a good point that in African American churches, this sort of thing is heard a lot. There's really nothing unusual about Wright's statements or his brand of preaching. Of course, it doesn't mean that a member of any church necessarily buys everything a minister says.
 
Yes and some current ones that McCain is pandering to spout similar things but it's done in a way that gets glossed over because they appear to be more "mainstream".

Roland Martin made a good point that in African American churches, this sort of thing is heard a lot. There's really nothing unusual about Wright's statements or his brand of preaching. Of course, it doesn't mean that a member of any church necessarily buys everything a minister says.

Nope, hell I don't agree with everything my wife says and I sleep next to her every night. ;)
 
Nope, hell I don't agree with everything my wife says and I sleep next to her every night. ;)

I think most people could say that about their partners.

At the college I work at, we have quite a few Native people, relatively speaking. Almost enough to have what could be a critical mass. We agree on NOTHING. Non-Indians are truly puzzled by this and have no idea how to react to differences in the group. It just never occured to them that there might be a difference of opinion.

I think that for people who criticize Obama by association with the church operate on much the same sort of "logic" in that Black people in a group are a single being.
 
I think most people could say that about their partners.

At the college I work at, we have quite a few Native people, relatively speaking. Almost enough to have what could be a critical mass. We agree on NOTHING. Non-Indians are truly puzzled by this and have no idea how to react to differences in the group. It just never occured to them that there might be a difference of opinion.

I think that for people who criticize Obama by association with the church operate on much the same sort of "logic" in that Black people in a group are a single being.

Really? Ish thread "Hyphenated American" one or two, take your pick.

Ishmael
 
Please.. You can't seriously be trying to say that the "Conservatives" aren't fanning this dying ember and hoping for a forest fire.

Disingenuous is your middle name isn't it?

I guess it depends on how "conservative" Hillary Clinton is. Her campaign (her husband) has been race-baiting for months.
 
Please.. You can't seriously be trying to say that the "Conservatives" aren't fanning this dying ember and hoping for a forest fire.

Disingenuous is your middle name isn't it?

It doesn't matter. Obama can quash this, but he has to do it now.
 
sorta "funny" how you DEMENTED FOOLS still "defend" the CRAZED "PREACHER", when even

THE COLORED LYING MUSLIM CANDIATE has thrown him under the bus

When even the "Church" he "preached" at has REMOVED most of the shit from their OWN web site

Fools you all are
 
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