Respect

[shy slave]

This thread is JUST my opinion:

There has been another recent spate of people on-line confusing Lit with real-life.

The recent unpleasantness has made me question the issue of respect:

Do people have differing views of respect on-line to those they hold in r/l?

For example is it enough to say you are a PYL orpyl and that title alone gives you a level of respect from others in a forum?

Do PYL's expect pyl's to give instant respect without their earning it?

Would you apply the same rules at a local munch?


In r/l people often gain instant respect by their presence when entering a room, Princess Diana & Mother Teresa were both said to have this presence for many years prior to thier fame.

That said it is more difficult to 'sense' that level or presence and give respect accordingly to a person when on-line.

(To put it in context, are you instantly aware someone you admire and give respect to in Lit has come into the forum prior to noting they are posting?)

Do pyls give ALL PYLs instant respect simply because they appear to be a PYL, yet they may never have had a r/l experience?

If a pyl is expected by others to give PYL's repect where does that leave switches?

When I joined Lit i quickly gave respect to some people here PYL and pyl, this was due to what and how they posted.

Others on here have not responded to any of my pm's or hellos within a thread and therefore it is difficult to make a decision to respect or otherwise that person.

I am stubborn and I have difficulty changing my views on people once I have made up my mind, but I have done it once or twice!

As a general observation I have a great deal of respect for people who stand by their word, regardless of whether people agree with them or not.
An example of this would be osg. I have a huge amount of respect for her and her lifestyle but I in no way pretned to understand it not would I wish to live her life. I respect her because she is able to give a consistant view of who she is and her life, and argues her point very well. She appears (to me) to consistantly give another point of view to threads that others do not have.

I am curious to now how people view respect on the boards and under what circumstances people gain or abuse that respect.

 

[graceanne]

This thread is JUST my opinion:

There has been another recent spate of people on-line confusing Lit with real-life.

The recent unpleasantness has made me question the issue of respect:

Do people have differing views of respect on-line to those they hold in r/l?

For example is it enough to say you are a PYL or pyl and that title alone gives you a level of respect from others in a forum?

No, it isn't. This is cyber land, just cause someone says they're something doesn't mean they actually are. We discussed this in misrepresentations. Just cause somone says they're a PYL doesn't mean that they are respect worthy. On the flip side, just cause I say I'm a pyl, doesn't mean that I fit someone else's definition of a pyl. (Not that I care what a stranger thinks of me.)

Do PYL's expect pyl's to give instant respect without their earning it?

I do think that. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen, but I think that they expect me to.

Would you apply the same rules at a local munch?

In r/l people often gain instant respect by their presence when entering a room, Princess Diana & Mother Teresa were both said to have this presence for many years prior to thier fame.

That said it is more difficult to 'sense' that level or presence and give respect accordingly to a person when on-line.

(To put it in context, are you instantly aware someone you admire and give respect to in Lit has come into the forum prior to noting they are posting?)

Do pyls give ALL PYLs instant respect simply because they appear to be a PYL, yet they may never have had a r/l experience?

If a pyl is expected by others to give PYL's repect where does that leave switches?

When I joined Lit i quickly gave respect to some people here PYL and pyl, this was due to what and how they posted.

Others on here have not responded to any of my pm's or hellos within a thread and therefore it is difficult to make a decision to respect or otherwise that person.

I am stubborn and I have difficulty changing my views on people once I have made up my mind, but I have done it once or twice!

As a general observation I have a great deal of respect for people who stand by their word, regardless of whether people agree with them or not.
An example of this would be osg. I have a huge amount of respect for her and her lifestyle but I in no way pretned to understand it not would I wish to live her life. I respect her because she is able to give a consistant view of who she is and her life, and argues her point very well. She appears (to me) to consistantly give another point of view to threads that others do not have.

I am curious to now how people view respect on the boards and under what circumstances people gain or abuse that respect.

cool thread, shy

 

[Miss Diva]

What is PYL ???

 

[ownedsubgal]

ideally, true respect should be earned...which can be hard to do online. however there is this thing called common courtesy. i try to show everyone common courtesy, however the courtesy i show towards those who "appear" to be older Dominant men online, is a bit different than the courtesy i show to others, which some could misconstrue as respect. it isn't, unless i know the person personally or just have such a great admiration for the way their carry themselves and express themselves online that respect is built. there are a few people i feel that way about here. Netzach is someone i have a great deal of respect for here, just based on observing the way she handles herself online. as a female Dominant, she is someone i wouldn't be permitted to even speak to, much less gain respect for, in real life. but thru this medium, i can see that though her ways and beliefs are almost polar opposite of our own, she always presents herself well, clearly, and says a lot with few words. if i happen to see Netzach's name in the list of most recent posters, then i consider those threads worth reading. Etoile is another person i feel that way about...another with a lifestyle and beliefs different from our own, but who is always true to herself and who doesn't falter in the midst of adversity.

but as for feeling respect towards someone simply because they are, or say they are, a Dominant? no, i don't really think that's possible online. but perhaps an added bit of courtesy, yes.


(btw, thank you shy )

 

[graceanne]

What is PYL ???

pyl stands for pick your label. If it's in capitals (PYL) it's a dom/master/sir/daddy/top. If it's in lower case (pyl) it's a sub/slave/bottom/

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[snowy ciara]

I try to be generically respectful to all, more of the common courtesy thing. I also tend to be too trusting of others, and it's bit me in the butt. The thing, respect is something earned.

There are PYLs here that I respect. Because they've always been honest and above board and they treat all of us fairly. There are other who, well that's in the past and it's not important now. One thing that I haven't seen here, but had seen on other sites was "they're only a sub" sort of attitude.

The other day, I was at a social fiunction with a friend. In walked this Dom with a swagger and shit eating grin. I was sitting with three people who are involved rt bdsm. He twigged on the fact that I'm a sub right away and started being, well,smarmy is the best word I can think off. I was nice and polite. I wasn't excessively gooey at him; didn't call him sir or anything. He was offended. I can't figure out where folks like this come from. He says I wasn't respectful because I'm a sub and I wasn't falling all over myself to suck up to him. I asked him where the reciprocal respect for me was, and he gave me a blank look. He didn't have a clue what I meant.

Common courtesy is a social requirement, but respect is earned.

 

[shy slave]

I believe it's "Pick Your Label"

I don't give respect to anyone who hasn't earned it first. It might make me a "bad sub" type person, but I don't. I receintly called someone "sir" for the first time in my life. Literally. I wasn't required to use "sir" or "mam" as a child, I don't require it of my children, and I don't use it normally- not even if I'm talking to say a police officer (I do call him/her officer, however). I was capable of using the term "sir" because this person had shown me they deserved it. If that person turned out to be a massive asshole I'd stop using the term with them. Period.

I'm also rediculously trusting online. LOL I assume people are honest, and what I see is what I get. I can't begin to imagine the work involved to keep up a falsehood for very long. LOL So I watch, read, and absorb how people interact. For me that would create the framework for choosing to use terms deemed to be more respectful if I was asked to do so, not someone walking into a forum and announcing they expected total and complete submission.

(sitting back wondering if she's going to get told she's not much of a sub... )

I think there are quite a few of us subs whom people may think are 'not that much of a sub...' but it makes life around here interesting

I particularly have fantasies of AngelicAssassin, Roscoe, LDW abd others getting down on bended knee each night and giving thanks that some of the subs on here do not belong to them.

I don't have the same fantasies about the Dommes, i just figure they could handle all of us odd little subbies with one hand tied behind their back

Ahh the magic of fantasy

*quick look for said Doms before making quick exit*

 

[Betticus]

My opinion may differ from some others but I'm a freak anyway so here it is:

You may be a sub but you and I don't have that kind of relationship here or in real life. I have no need or reason to even attempt to dominate you unless you and I both have agreed on something like that.

I may not have come into this kind of community until very recently but I was born dominant and always have been, just without that title. If it were otherwise I'd probably be a complete asshole. I prefer to have relationships with people in real life and for the record, I like brats. A lot.

Lastly, this is the internet and you never know who is on the opposite side of the connection. If someone appears to command your respect then so be it. If someone demands your respect without first earning it and building some kind of trust and rapport with you then he's full of shit.

Bottom line is that you owe none of us anything at all. We owe you nothing. It's an even playing field.

 

[shy slave]

Early days but..

Thanks to all who have replied so far.
It appears the pyls think that respect is earnt whether it is on-line or not.

I would be interested in some PYL point of views, particularly in relation to:

1) Their thoughts on snowys post about her recent r/t experience of a dom.

Deep down do you expect, or would you like to receive, instant respect from a pyl simply because they are a pyl?

I would LOVE to walk into a room and get instant respect, but I know it won't happen anytime soon lol

2) Cuties admission regarding on-line trust.
Cutie I could give you chapter and verse on my family's thoughts on trust on-line. But i am guessing you and everyone else would have heard it all before

Do PYLs think there are additional issues for pyls with being too trusting on-line?
I am asking PYLs because they may be closer to the mindset of PYLs online who do not have a pyls best interests at heart.

I am curious about how the Sweetdommes see the respect issue on-line and in r/t. This is simply because they have a sub who is younger than they are and I am curious about other PYL reactions.


I am also curious about etoile, catalina and MissT because they are moderators on Lit

Do you feel people give you a wide berth because of your moderator status or more/less/no different respect because of it?

*sigh* perhaps I should have just made a poll option


My mother used to say my curiosity would get me into trouble one day and after all the q's I ask on here she could be right

 

[Betticus]

I must be on shy slave's ignore list.

 

[dolf]

I must be on shy slave's ignore list.

or, if you look at the times on the posts, if she took longer than 6 minutes to write her post then she probably didn't see yours
xx

 

[Betticus]

or, if you look at the times on the posts, if she took longer than 6 minutes to write her post then she probably didn't see yours
xx

There went my whole guilt trip.

 

[shy slave]

BETTICUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How could you think that a vegan atkins diet, currently unwell with a hacking cough, exercise loving & wonderfully sadistic Dom like you could be on my ignore list??????????

Apart from i am too lazy to have anyone on ignore ~ it means i have to press another button and I can't be bothered~ you would not even be on a potenial ignore list.

I think i must have been posting at the same time as you.

Now have you had a nice pat on the head and been patronised to the full by innocent and shy little sub, if so I had better start running lol.

dolph did i really take 6 mins to post?
Hell what do you think happened did I fall asleep??
I could have used those 6 minutes to tease Betticus about being the only PYL so far to venture in here

*Goes off to look for missing minutes, and use them to their full potential*

 

[graceanne]

My opinion may differ from some others but I'm a freak anyway so here it is:

You may be a sub but you and I don't have that kind of relationship here or in real life. I have no need or reason to even attempt to dominate you unless you and I both have agreed on something like that.

Lastly, this is the internet and you never know who is on the opposite side of the connection. If someone appears to command your respect then so be it. If someone demands your respect without first earning it and building some kind of trust and rapport with you then he's full of shit.

Bottom line is that you owe none of us anything at all. We owe you nothing. It's an even playing field.

Very well put. That's pretty much how I look at it. Being a sub doesn't make me lesser, and it doesn't make me a sub to every person who calls himself a dom. I agree about being polite, but if someone wants to joke and tease, I'm going to joke and tease back. And that doesn't make me rude, or disrespectful. I also don't call every dom I meet sir. It's rediculous. I can be rude, and still say sir, just like I can be respectful, and not use the word sir. For example if I told someone to fuck off, it wouldnt' matter if I tacked on sir to the end. It'd still be rude. And to tell the truth, correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I think that AA and Sir W were enjoying the bantering with me, shy, and snowy. *shrugs*

 

[shy slave]

There went my whole guilt trip.

I think we just posted at same time again

Have you found my minutes if so give them back NOW!! lol

 

[Betticus]

I think we just posted at same time again

Have you found my minutes if so give them back NOW!! lol

Naughty girl!

 

[Betticus]

Very well put. That's pretty much how I look at it. Being a sub doesn't make me lesser, and it doesn't make me a sub to every person who calls himself a dom. I agree about being polite, but if someone wants to joke and tease, I'm going to joke and tease back. And that doesn't make me rude, or disrespectful. I also don't call every dom I meet sir. It's rediculous. I can be rude, and still say sir, just like I can be respectful, and not use the word sir. For example if I told someone to fuck off, it wouldnt' matter if I tacked on sir to the end. It'd still be rude. And to tell the truth, correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I think that AA and Sir W were enjoying the bantering with me, shy, and snowy. *shrugs*

Of course they were enjoying it.

 

[shy slave]

Very well put. That's pretty much how I look at it. Being a sub doesn't make me lesser, and it doesn't make me a sub to every person who calls himself a dom. I agree about being polite, but if someone wants to joke and tease, I'm going to joke and tease back. And that doesn't make me rude, or disrespectful. I also don't call every dom I meet sir. It's rediculous. I can be rude, and still say sir, just like I can be respectful, and not use the word sir. For example if I told someone to fuck off, it wouldnt' matter if I tacked on sir to the end. It'd still be rude. And to tell the truth, correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I think that AA and Sir W were enjoying the bantering with me, shy, and snowy. *shrugs*

I read betticus response as using 'you' as a generalism for everyone on the boards but having re-read I am not sure.

Anyway to respond properly to his post and yours Grace:
Betticus said
//Lastly, this is the internet and you never know who is on the opposite side of the connection. If someone appears to command your respect then so be it. If someone demands your respect without first earning it and building some kind of trust and rapport with you then he's full of shit.//

I would hope that 99.9 % of PYLs would agree with you. Its true you never know who is on the end of a keyboard.
I was also thinking about being given respect without demanding it.
A great many Doms and all the Dommes have my respect but that has come through their posts and my deductions from those posts.
I guess this thread does link to the misrepresentation thread in many ways.
betticus if your sub posted on here (Perhaps they already do if so apologies) would you expect their posts to offer you respect if it seemed appropriate. For example in previous post i teased you a tiny bit, would your sub feel compelled to rush to your defence and would you expect them to?

Grace fuck off is my favourite expression at times, that and fuck, fuck fuck, when i screw up
In the other thread where we teased some people I have noticed those who take themselves seriously ignore such teasing and those who respond appear to do so because it is harmless fun not because they feel obliged not to offend us poor timerous subs.

As a respect thing if I am comfortable enough to tease I usually have respct for that person regardless of online or r/t.

Although that has got me into all kinds of trouble in r/t ~imagine teasing your boss who no-one but no-one dare tease.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Re: Early days but..

Thanks to all who have replied so far.
It appears the pyls think that respect is earnt whether it is on-line or not.

I would be interested in some PYL point of views, particularly in relation to:

1) Their thoughts on snowys post about her recent r/t experience of a dom.

"He was offended. I can't figure out where folks like this come from. He says I wasn't respectful because I'm a sub and I wasn't falling all over myself to suck up to him. I asked him where the reciprocal respect for me was, and he gave me a blank look. He didn't have a clue what I meant."

Ummm... IMNSHO, he wasn't a Dom. He might have been a top. A Dominant should show as much respect as he would like to be shown - but he still needs to earn it. I've been Dominant all my life. I don't expect anything but courtesy from others until I have had an opportunity to earn their respect. I give courtesy to others - including addressing all females as "ma'am," and males as "sir." I was raised an army brat and served in the Navy; it's second nature. It's also polite. When I came to Lit, I didn't demand respect from others - and I still don't. If others respect me here, it's because they feel I have earned it through my posts and my thoughts. IMO, respect can not be demanded - only earned. If it is given, then one is doing what one should for that set of circumstances.

Deep down do you expect, or would you like to receive, instant respect from a pyl simply because they are a pyl?

No. It wouldn't be real. I would like to receive, and do to some extent expect, courtesy, however - from both pyls and PYLs, and I extend it to both until and unless someone shows me that (IMO) they do not deserve even that much.

I would LOVE to walk into a room and get instant respect, but I know it won't happen anytime soon lol

<snip>

Do PYLs think there are additional issues for pyls with being too trusting on-line?
I am asking PYLs because they may be closer to the mindset of PYLs online who do not have a pyls best interests at heart.

Hmm. I don't think I'd single out pyls. It appears to me that most (non-predatory) people are too trusting online. Many people would never trust a stranger on the street or even in a shopping mall without some evidence of their trustworthiness and/or credibility; however, they will trust an anonymous set of pixels on the screen that forms words, sentences and paragraphs. It can be more dangerous for pyls, however, as news stories over the past decade or so have shown. IMO, pyls are more vulnerable to the sharks who lurk in the murky seas online than are PYLs.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

<snippage> correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I think that AA and Sir W were enjoying the bantering with me, shy, and snowy. *shrugs*

No correction necessary from this point of view.

 

[RJMasters]

I would like to say that I never had that arrogant attitude, but the truth is, when I first came to Lit, I did have it. Thanks to KC I have really sat my ass down and thought about it.

When I came to this realization about myself, I didn't like me.

I would lie if I said I am 100% cured, but I try everyday to remember that I am a recovering asshole. I think though I am making progress.

I have learned there is a difference in the romantic notion of respect, and genuine respect both in the giving and receiving of it.

Though these three things may be completely different things, in reality the lines between common curtousy, respect and seeking acceptance tend to blur.

I pretty much line up with how Winston sees things.

 

[shy slave]

No correction necessary from this point of view.

No corections *faints with shock*

Oh you mean the sentiment, not the choice of words/grammer/spelling/etc

Couldn't resist it SirW x

 

[shy slave]

I would like to say that I never had that arrogant attitude, but the truth is, when I first came to Lit, I did have it. Thanks to KC I have really sat my ass down and thought about it.

When I came to this realization about myself, I didn't like me.

I would lie if I said I am 100% cured, but I try everyday to remember that I am a recovering asshole. I think though I am making progress.

I have learned there is a difference in the romantic notion of respect, and genuine respect both in the giving and receiving of it.

Though these three things may be completely different things, in reality the lines between common curtousy, respect and seeking acceptance tend to blur.

I pretty much line up with how Winston sees things.

RJ thank you for such an honest answer.

Damn I always respct honesty so i guess i have to add you to the list of people I respect

I love the line 'recovering asshole' I know many vanilla men that would suit so well lol

 

[graceanne]

. . . . a recovering asshole.

Is there a 12 step program for that?