Resources for parenting a child with Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)?

[Wild_Honey_66]

Trying to get a jump on the summer by addressing some behavioral issues with my 12yo with ODD, and would appreciate recommendations for books, websites, chat groups, etc.

Specifically looking for information relating to leverage, motivation, and appropriate, effective consequences. I'm not opposed to including a tough love approach if I think it will accomplish our goals, but I'm not interested in finding ourselves in a downward spiral of punishment.

My dad always says you need a stick AND a carrot, and that's what I'm looking for. Balance.

Thanks!

 

[Seadog777]

My youngest has ODD, along with Autism and Anxiety.

What works for me is a few things.....

1) I use a "3 strike rule", I take away her favorite things (PS4, DVD, Game, etc), and if that doesn't work, then I bust her ass.
2) I sit her down and explain the what and why. What she did wrong, and why I took it and/or busted her ass.
3) Behavior and Reward Chart. It's a Visual Aid, so that she can track her progress throughout the week.

I got the chart idea from my own personal therapist for my Depression, PTSD and Survivor's Guilt.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Really hoping that “busting her ass” doesn’t mean striking your child. You will not find research based strategies that support that.

 

[Kenourio]

Hi -

Parenting a child with ODD can be incredibly hard, and I wouldn't recommend proceeding without having professional help. the most useful thing you could look out would be a therapist who has experience and would be able to work with both your child and yourself. You might also want to book yourself (and partner) onto a parent management training course, preferably again one that specifically mentions ODD.

One thing you don't mention is how your child was diagnosed. If you are already working with a mental health professional, you should be able to get therapy recommendations and referrals (including parent management training) from them.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I’d try to find professional support. If you already have that, I’d ask them for some reading recommendations.

That said, there are a few writers I’ve found helpful when it comes to dealing with kids:
Ross W Greene. His basic idea is that you work from the premis that the kid wants to get it right and when ut doesn’t, it’s becaus of lagging skills. Then you need to help them develop those skills and/or help them find workarounds. To do that you use reasoning/socratic questions.

Remo H Largo. His basic idea is the fit concept - to look at each child as an individual and to strive to create a good fit between the childs individual needs and strengths on one hand and the expectations and conditions of the environment on the other hand.

Jesper Juul. My basic takeaway from his writing is about being authentic in your leadership by being clear about your boundaries and needs while also respecting the childs boundaries and needs. Most people seem to only hear about half his message sadly.

The bottom line they all have in common and that speaks to me, is that children are humans.
A lot of parenting advice about charts and stars and whatever are written as some kind of operation manual, one size fits all advice.
We all know how much we love being treated that way…

 

[lovecraft68]

A goddamn smack, and shoved in their room with none of their devices until they're going to do what you say.
This tired, "we need to reason with our children' approach is why we have a society of lazy entitled little monsters who have never heard the word no from their spineless lazy parents, who because they can't be bothered to take time away from being assholes on social media to raise their kid, make everyone else's lives miserable.

Grow a pair and be a parent not a buddy, and not an enabler "ODD" piss off with that.

 

[Winter_Fare]

A goddamn smack, and shoved in their room with none of their devices until they're going to do what you say.
This tired, "we need to reason with our children' approach is why we have a society of lazy entitled little monsters who have never heard the word no from their spineless lazy parents, who because they can't be bothered to take time away from being assholes on social media to raise their kid, make everyone else's lives miserable.

Grow a pair and be a parent not a buddy, and not an enabler "ODD" piss off with that.

Tell us you have no idea what ODD is without saying you have no idea what ODD is...

 

[IrisAlthea]

Tell us you have no idea what ODD is without saying you have no idea what ODD is...

But what a great way to model relationship skills.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

A goddamn smack, and shoved in their room with none of their devices until they're going to do what you say.
This tired, "we need to reason with our children' approach is why we have a society of lazy entitled little monsters who have never heard the word no from their spineless lazy parents, who because they can't be bothered to take time away from being assholes on social media to raise their kid, make everyone else's lives miserable.

Grow a pair and be a parent not a buddy, and not an enabler "ODD" piss off with that.

This is a horrific response to the opening post. Absolutely horrific.

 

[lovecraft68]

Tell us you have no idea what ODD is without saying you have no idea what ODD is...

Telling me about "ODD" is telling me you're an enabler who believes everything a lazy parent and lazier doctor tells you.
Where were all these conditions before? How is it that generations of parenting are now suddenly, oh, these obnoxious brat kids all have a condition...its called being a brat kid.

Tell you a story, that is if you're not so outraged that you can't read. I used to own a comic book store and we did card tournaments for the kids, Yu-gi-oh was the big one then. Now of course my wife chats with all the parents, gets their life story cause that's what she does, and more than one parent is telling her all about her child's ADD, can't pay attention in school, can't do this...

My wife would then reply "I just say here and watched your son/daughter build decks-which for the record takes a lot of focus as each card does something different and works with and against other cards...its complex-and play for hours with no issue. Is it ADD or not wanting to pay attention to anything they don't want to pay attention to?

In some cases its a real thing, in most, its bullshit and you're setting your kid up to have to go from one drug to another for the rest of their lives. They're giving little kids gummies to help them sleep now so we can hook them sooner now, right?

Funny how when I was a kid, it was called day dreaming, and we somehow all got by, now everything is a disease in a pathetically soft over medicated over sensitive society. Keep your stupid emoji, after all I might have a condition where mean emoji's cause me cry.

 

[Winter_Fare]

Telling me about "ODD" is telling me you're an enabler who believes everything a lazy parent and lazier doctor tells you.
Where were all these conditions before? How is it that generations of parenting are now suddenly, oh, these obnoxious brat kids all have a condition...its called being a brat kid.

Tell you a story, that is if you're not so outraged that you can't read. I used to own a comic book store and we did card tournaments for the kids, Yu-gi-oh was the big one then. Now of course my wife chats with all the parents, gets their life story cause that's what she does, and more than one parent is telling her all about her child's ADD, can't pay attention in school, can't do this...

My wife would then reply "I just say here and watched your son/daughter build decks-which for the record takes a lot of focus as each card does something different and works with and against other cards...its complex-and play for hours with no issue. Is it ADD or not wanting to pay attention to anything they don't want to pay attention to?

In some cases its a real thing, in most, its bullshit and you're setting your kid up to have to go from one drug to another for the rest of their lives. They're giving little kids gummies to help them sleep now so we can hook them sooner now, right?

Funny how when I was a kid, it was called day dreaming, and we somehow all got by, now everything is a disease in a pathetically soft over medicated over sensitive society. Keep your stupid emoji, after all I might have a condition where mean emoji's cause me cry.

Gee, maybe take your Ritalin and stop milking this thread for Dopamine...

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Please fuck off and do not derail a thread about a diagnosis and situation you clearly do not understand. Additional such comments will be removed as attempts to derail the thread.

 

[lovecraft68]

[Post removed. Posts intended to disrupt thread/forum are against forum rules.]

 

[Winter_Fare]

Drug free, thank you. Free speech and being a throwback to those mean days of discipline aren't a drug, maybe you need to stop trying to score with fake outrage, although I do know what a rush it is for you.

Yes! Your brain needs trolling, it's just as addictive as drugs, carry on...

 

[tnman03]

[Removed quoted post]

You’re wrong on a lot of levels. ODD is not something where a child should be slapped around and thrown into a room over. If you follow that route then you'll see the child become a suicide risk of a serious problem later in life. Yes, things were different way back when, a lot was simply unknown pertaining to child psychology and disorders. Times change.

As for people speaking out more now or being less tolerant of meanness on forums, well, they have a right to their opinions as well. And yes, this is a porn forum, but it also has a lot of highly gifted and intelligent members. A significant number of them are educators, psychologists, and nurses. So, it's not unreasonable to ask what the OP asked. You've just chosen to be intolerant to her problem and use your business experience as an example. Yes, it's a good example of how to distract a child by challenging their creativity. That's actually something the OP can use.

 

[Winter_Fare]

Your wrong on a lot of levels. ODD is not something where a child should be slapped around and thrown into a room over. If you follow that route then you'll see the child become a suicide risk of a serious problem later in life. Yes, things were different way back when, a lot was simply unknown pertaining to child psychology and disorders. Times change.

As for people speaking out more now or being less tolerant of meanness on forums, well, they have a right to their opinions as well. And yes, this is a porn forum, but it also has a lot of highly gifted and intelligent members. A significant number of them are educators, psychologists, and nurses. So, it's not unreasonable to ask what the OP asked. You've just chosen to be intolerant to her problem and use your business experience as an example. Yes, it's a good example of how to distract a child by challenging their creativity. That's actually something the OP can use.

ADD and autism are totally overrepresented in the nerd/geek culture. Of course there's loads of us in game shops... Hyperfocus... Special interests... These engage the neurodiverse child and adult alike!

But...

Big but...

ODD =/= ADHD. Nope.

@Wild_Honey_66

ODD is hard, lonely parenting. My contribution to this is to say, do not ignore your own needs as a parent. Take breaks. Take every opportunity to let off steam, because the all the best ways to parent ODD need you to stay calm and in control

There's so much support out there on social media not to substitute counselling and professional help but to help you understand you are NOT alone. There are other people fighting the same battles!

 

[KatieDoes]

A goddamn smack, and shoved in their room with none of their devices until they're going to do what you say.
This tired, "we need to reason with our children' approach is why we have a society of lazy entitled little monsters who have never heard the word no from their spineless lazy parents, who because they can't be bothered to take time away from being assholes on social media to raise their kid, make everyone else's lives miserable.

Grow a pair and be a parent not a buddy, and not an enabler "ODD" piss off with that.

Do you also slap children in wheelchairs and tell them to get up and stop sitting around being lazy?

 

[Winter_Fare]

Do you also slap children in wheelchairs and tell them to get up and stop sitting around being lazy?

Nah, he's a strong defender of children

 

[Kenourio]

...more than one parent is telling her all about her child's ADD, can't pay attention in school, can't do this...

My wife would then reply "I just say here and watched your son/daughter build decks-which for the record takes a lot of focus as each card does something different and works with and against other cards...its complex-and play for hours with no issue. Is it ADD or not wanting to pay attention to anything they don't want to pay attention to?

In some cases its a real thing, in most, its bullshit and you're setting your kid up to have to go from one drug to another for the rest of their lives. They're giving little kids gummies to help them sleep now so we can hook them sooner now, right?

ADD/ADHD does not mean an inability to pay attention. These conditions are a problem with regulation of focus and often with dealing with multiple inputs. Hyperfocus is a fairly well-established phenomenon within the scientific literature on ADHD, and a card game like Yu-Gi-Oh is exactly the kind of thing (limited parameters, most known at the outset) that would be a good zone for encouraging such hyperfocus. Check out some of the scientific literature on this - E.g. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12402-018-0272-y

I don't disagree with you that there is a tendency to over-medicate in treating childhood conditions, but poor treatment doesn't invalidate the original diagnosis, any more than the preponderance of lobotomies in the 1950's invalidated the diagnoses of lobotomized schizophrenics.

Your response does, though, illustrate something that the original poster will probably be all too aware of - parenting a child with a challenging condition like ODD can involve a lot of rejection from well-meaning people who don't know what they are talking about. I hope she has a loving community that is willing to be educated about these things, or is able to find a local/online support group to talk with.

 

[LittleSwitchy]

Wild Honey
I think there was some good advice. Maybe Talk to whoever diagnosed the child. I’m sure they have references they can give you. I think you’re taking the right steps. Trying to find out all you can.
Not my place to say do/ don’t give corporal punishment or any punishment. Maybe the one evaluated the child can give ideas. Might have to try a number of things. Until you figure out what does or doesn’t work.
What may have worked few years ago. That might not work now. I’m thinking at 12 there’s changes going on inside the child. Like chemical, emotional changes. Puberty can be rough.
I hope you find the info you need.

 

[LittleSwitchy]

Wolf Honey
I just thought of something.
Maybe check with whoever diagnosed the child. Find out about schooling. There’s a lot of programs out there to help y’all.
I don’t know where you live. But I’m thinking there’s programs that can be put in place. That can help the child to learn and grow emotionally.
My cousin in Washington state was diagnosed with Aspergers fairly early. His mom got with the doctors and school district. They setup like a game plan. The rules of what to do and not do. It helps in the long term especially if the school is trying to say something needs to be done. When I’m the game plan/ contract. It spells it out. A few times mom had to go down and show the school… yeah no. That’s not what is agreed on.
Just my .02. Hope you get everything worked out how it’s best for your family soon.

 

[Lady2020]

For Lovecraft. My grandson's father left him hanging from his shoulder from a top bunk bed when he was under two years old, for hours. Your approach is just more of the same.

 

[AlexBailey]

Consistent and loving dicipline.
(Sorry that I don't have more resources to offer other than just my family's story. I strongly second what @GoldenCompulsion said above.)


I've raised three sons, the oldest of which was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and Oppositional Defiance. He was from my first wife who was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. His mother was a disaster and had no consistency nor any parenting skills. Our households were very different, ours was one with very little digital media while his mother just wanted him out of her hair and gave him unfettered access to videogames.

He's got a high IQ and a very creative mind but was getting mixed signals from an early age. His mother was clueless about discipline except that she believed that misbehavior (being disruptive or defiant) should be met with a smack and being sent to his room. My second wife, and mother to my other two boys was a preschool teacher and was once a counselor for adults with mental difficulties including schitzophrenia, autism, Downs Syndrome, traumatic brain injuries, etc... She has studied early child development - I largely followed her lead.

My oldest, now in his mind twenties, had/has severe self-esteem issues, which he attributes to his mother's constant gaslighting and inconsistency. She would diminish his accomplishments to his face but would brag about them to her friends. He felt like she used him as a prop for her own social status. He called me several times during the Depp / Heard hearings to talk about similarities between Amber and his mother.

He has studied a lot about his own mental health issues and has come back to thank my wife and me for our firm but loving meathods, the most important of which was to let him experience the natural consequences of his own bad choices while also giving him our unconditional love.

Before puberty his mother had let him watch any TV and had almost no limits on his access to video games - as long as he stayed out of her hair and didn't embarrass her she didn't care what he did. He had a hard time when he would stay with me, partly because we limited TV and had almost no digital media in our home. From age nine to twelve he hated coming to our house.

At twelve years old he was getting into physical fights with his mom and alcoholic step-father. He called me up one day saying I needed to come and get him or someone was going to die.

We had trouble finding a good therapist and tried several who he was unable to connect with. My mother felt sorry for him and said "all he needs is medical care, God, and love" and offered to let him stay with her. It was one of the worst things that could have happened, since he knew there was an alternative he pushed for it and acted out with abuse to the rest of our family, demanding that he be allowed to live with his grandparents.

He went to live with my parents and they doted on him, they took him to a psychiatrist who prescribed a bunch of different meds. They thought he was too smart for everyone, he had skipped a grade in early years because a teacher thought he needed more of a challenge to keep him interested. My parents said I was just a bad parent, but they let him have unsupervised media, let him choose his own meals and meal times. He once threw a plate of food at my mother because it got cold while he was finishing a level on a video game.

I continued looking for therapists and finally found a young CFT my son could relate to who had once been addicted to video games. They began making some progress - enough so my son would actually engage and have conversations. We made a written plan of what we would do if he didn't meet his school obligations and an emergency plan for if he became a danger to himself or others. It set thresholds for behavior and a list of consequences that he could expect. It lessened the emotional conflict between us because I could refer to the plan rather than get distracted by negotiating consequences during heated exchanges.

Things continued to get worse as he pushed back against any authority, eventually getting kicked out of two middle schools and refusing to go to a third. I confronted him about it, say how it was the law and that he needed to go to school or else he would be declared truant and could be taken to juvenile hall. He punched me in the face. We initiated our emergency plan and called 911. When the sheriff arrived he saw my injury and approached my son.

"What seems to be the problem, young man?"

"Fuck you, pig!"

Oops. He got arrested on the spot.

He spent three days in juvenile hall. He was offered juvenile probation in lieu of 30 days. I went to visit him and he asked if he could come and live with me. I told him yes on the condition that he signed onto the behavior plan and went back to school. We negotiated two hours of video games on weekend days provided he go to school.

During the probation period he was a perfect child, scared straight and vested in his own mental health. After probation we had some serious backsliding but progress continued. The school offered an individualized educational program (IEP) which he tried to take advantage of to avoid doing normal classwork. He thought we would step in and intervene when he refused to do several finals projects. He didn't graduate with his class and had to make up some credits the following year. He has since told us that earning his diploma "the hard way" was one of the accomplishments he is most proud of.

After graduation he tried to get us to let him stay in our backyard cottage rent free but I insisted that I wouldn't do that. He had to at least pay rent that I would hold for him until he got his own place. We still enforced some house rules he didn't like and got in frequent heated arguments with his step-mother. I told him he couldn't talk to her that way - she was my girlfriend and lover, how would he treat someone who disrespected his girlfriend that way?

He decided to move out as soon as he could. He rented with a few friends and ended up moving back in a couple of times, but it was always with conditions.

He's now a full time college honors student in another state and mostly supports himself with scholarships and a part-time job. He has trouble maintaining relationships but prides himself that his recent breakups have been amicable and he's still friends with them. He has been off all meds for several years now and is now interested in life and making the world a better place.

 

[aussiegeekygal]

I've been working on understanding the role of dopamine how to protectively regulate the sensory systems of my kids.

Much like hunger, our bodies need a variety of input snacks throughout the day to stay as regulated as possible. I go through the same routine every 2-3 hours with my kids: eat/drink, big body movement (jumping, skipping, running, etc.), Connection (an activity together) and rinse/repeat.

We don't have an official ODD diagnosis. And my kids are younger than yours. My eldest and I both have ADHD and autism.

The habit of snacking for the brain has changed my life. I don't wait for things to get out of control. I plan ahead now and I also keep chocolate around for a dopamine hit whenever any of us get completely dysregulated. That's helped a lot.

Do you have access to an occupational therapist? A support group for parents in the same situation as yours? As demonstrated in the responses, there is a huge misunderstanding about neurodivergance and how best to support people in our lives who may not fit into the socially normative box (you're. welcome in my box any time, dear honey).