Research question: 19'th Century Railroad Experience

[TheWritingGroup]

Hi,

I'm working on a story that takes place entirely aboard a train in the 1850s. I know something about later Nineteenth Century railroads, but not much about the 1850s ones. I'm going to read Mark Twain's Roughing It (no hardship, I like Twain) but can anyone suggest any other resources (books, sites, documentaries, YouTube creators)? For another story, the eloquent and generous @baffling8929 was super helpful, so ... I don't suppose there are mid-Nineteenth-Century railroad buffs hanging around here?

I don't expect to need stuff like the diameter of the water pipe feeding the boiler. I'm do need things like how rough the ride was, how dining service worked on interstate trips, how many classes of passenger the train might have, and how likely they were to mingle.

Thanks in advance.
-Billie

 

[NotWise]

I don't know if I can help much, but there's this: in 1850 there were only 9,000 miles of rails in the US. The first transcontinental line was finished in 1869. Even by the time of the Civil War, the rail system outside the northeast US was limited.

You might limit your story by placing it so early.

 

[MrPixel]

You might limit your story by placing it so early.

^^^^^ This.

Most of my RR knowledge is 20th Century. However, I have read in multiple sources that on-train dining basically did not exist until after the Civil War. Since the trains had to stop quite often to take on water, the practice was to "dine"... he says euphemistically... at a pub near the watering station.

As far as "mingle" goes, be conscious of the social mores of the era. Women traveling alone would be unheard of.

I would conjecture from knowing the technology development that trains of that era were rough-riding, noisy, dirty, somewhat dangerous, and thoroughly uncomfortable experiences. In that latter aspect, probably similar to 21st Century airline service.

 

[Bramblethorn]

^^^^^ This.

Most of my RR knowledge is 20th Century. However, I have read in multiple sources that on-train dining basically did not exist until after the Civil War. Since the trains had to stop quite often to take on water, the practice was to "dine"... he says euphemistically... at a pub near the watering station.

Refrigeration is probably a factor here. At that time, the only practical option for refrigerated transport was ice; people were starting to experiment with ice-chilled freight cars around the mid-19th century, but it wasn't until around the 1870s that it really took off.

 

[Writer61]

I'm do need things like how rough the ride was, how dining service worked on interstate trips, how many classes of passenger the train might have, and how likely they were to mingle.

No expert, and it may not correlate with US practice, but I think most British carriages of that era had separate compartments and no corridor. So even within a class mingling could only happen on the platform.

 

[shakna]

That era of trains were basically just carriages attached to a locomotive. Like this, and this.
The Liverpool to Manchester line was probably the busiest, and the famous Paddington Station was only built in '59, limiting how much traffic that even London saw.

The "Stephenson's Rocket" was what enabled Liverpool to Manchester to actually be a thing. It was cutting edge steam tech, and drew its fair share of admirer's and detractors, and only blew up a couple times. Searching for the rocket will give you a fair bit of background lore if you intend to take that angle on things. The Rainhill Trials could actually be an exciting tale. Especially with the insanity of the Cyclopede.

It was beyond rare for women to travel on these early railways. And not without a significant entourage.
But... Wouldn't be the first time a couple of coal monkeys got caught together.

War was what really opened the door to women travelling, working as mechanics, etc. But that was a good sight after your timeline.

However! Women were extensively involved in the architecture, design, and officework behind ensuring the railways actually happened. In about 1835-1840, women were invited to run telegraph systems along the lengths of the rails, to help manage and direct the trains.

Also however, women and children were among the slaves to actually build the darn things. Unfortunately, not a lot of those records survive, because they were never well kept. You count your male slaves, but only sometimes count the women. This might lead you deeper on that front.

 

[Bazzle]

There was a great belief in the "Victorian" era that if you went faster that 40mph your skin might come off your face.
The early carriages were open top, because freight was actually the important thing to move around- coal and iron and the such to feed the industries. So people moving was pretty basic.

So...it would have been windy, weather beaten and not pleasant. But marginally quicker than horse drawn cart.

B

 

[rob_bicurious]

Yes, Trains before the civil war were short lines connecting to different lines and primarily for freight. While you could certainly travel by train, it was as romantic as being on the back of a city garbage truck, short run, dirty, smelly and not private. On Wikipedia, it shows only 46 miles of track in Midwest. The east (9 states) had the most, with an average of 415 miles PER STATE. which is not necessarily continuous. 100 different operators might own that and not be connected to each other. With the miracle of suspension of belief you can have opulent dinning cars and legions of waiters in white tuxes, but reality was pretty harsh.

 

[Bazzle]

A quick Wiki suggests Pullman didn't start until 1860's The opulence of rail travel, because in the 1850's it was not pleasant!

 

[SouthernCrossfire]

I considered writing a book on a regional railroad history a few years ago but abandoned the idea when I found a book similar to my topic that had come out a couple of years before. After reading it, I was glad that I hadn't wasted the time; it was boring as hell and I doubt that mine would have been that much more exciting! Oh well...

The 1850s was generally earlier than my period of interest but I know a little about it.

Railroading was THE big business in the United States between 1850 and 1860, when many of the famous tycoons saw their businesses really take off; everyone wanted in on the game. Lines were sprouting up all over the place in the eastern U.S., particularly in the Midwest and parts of the south, often by subscription/shares, but many were underfunded, so the tycoons would swoop in and buy out financially troubled lines for pennies on the dollar and add them to their networks rather than building them all themselves. Most lines were standard gauge but some started out as narrow gauge before being converted to standard gauge after a troubled line was purchased. As NotWise noted, railroad trackage and distribution in the United States were relatively limited in 1850, but LOTS of lines were incorporated and built in the next ten years, with about 30,000 miles of track active by the start of the Civil War. One could travel from Boston (or NYC or Washington, D.C.) to New Orleans by train in a matter of days rather than weeks by stage as before. The track to St. Joseph, Missouri, was a busy line for families, with many of those heading west going that far with their possessions and connecting with a wagon train at that point.

Due to the dangers and the social norms of the time, it would have been very uncommon for a woman to ride a train unaccompanied prior to the Civil War. They would typically travel with a companion, a husband or male relative but a male servant in the north or a male slave in the south would have also been acceptable. As someone noted, cars were compartmentalized; there was no diaphragm between them so only person who moved from car to car was the conductor (inside) or the brakeman (up top). Due to the smoke and cinders, people would not have wanted to stand on the platforms between cars.

Here's a link to a publication that shows a map of trackage in 1860.

https://www.themaparchive.com/product/1860-us-railroads/

 

[Bazzle]

It was Pullman that invented the vestibule between coaches to enable people to get to his dining carriages from their compartments.

 

[MrPixel]

Most lines were standard gauge but some started out as narrow gauge before being converted to standard gauge after a troubled line was purchased.

Don't forget The South was 5-foot gauge until after the Civil War.

 

[Tomh1966]

You might want to consider ca 1870 as that was ROUGHLY physically like what most people think when they think 'Early train travel'

 

[Trionyx]

Don't forget The South was 5-foot gauge until after the Civil War.

Correct. And it was a massive undertaking to change the distance between the rails throughout the South and make the entire system uniform. The trains had to be retrofitted as well.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Speaking of North America, prior to 1867, there were no real dining cars. One of the options for long trips was, as noted, a greasy-spoon cafe near the station. Others sources included whatever was sold by platform vendors and take-your-own. It would have been a dodgy business, especially given the lack of standards and refrigeration.

The very first passenger cars were, as noted already, little more than converted cargo wagons. It didn't take too long for the 'marketing' types of the day to realize than passengers would appreciate a roof and such. By the 1850s, there might - might - have been something along the lines of a box with seats and opening windows. Heating for those areas with very cold climates would have been limited to a post-bellied iron stove in each car; experienced travellers wore fur coats and carried blankets. Air conditioning for very hot climates had two settings: closed-windows and open-windows-with-dust-and-extra-bugs. Regardless of the weather, opening the window would let in smoke and ash from the locomotive, so I guess one hoped for a side-breeze.

In the Americas, one would hope that your passenger wagon had spittoons and ashtrays...

If there was a toilet (rather unlikely in the 1850s), it would be nothing more than a seat over a hole emptying right down onto the tracks. Cold, dusty, smelly and, often as not, the conductor would lock the compartment while the train was in the station. Washing hands and even toilet paper required foresight. Absent even one of those minimal facilities, one had to wait until the next station and hope that the lineup was short.

One thing to keep in mind is that the passengers of the day would not have been horrified by such things. That rail travel was increasingly popular might indicate that it was a step up from the options - a stage coach, a boat (and rivers in the 1850s were more important for transportation than trains), riding a horse or walking.

Actually, there are a number of serious train fans on AH. One of them is @Duleigh. You might drop him a PM.

 

[gunhilltrain]

A good book to get and it's still in print is The Railway Journey, by Wolfgang Shivelbush. The first edition was published in 1977 and it was updated in 2014. It compares European with American experiences in with passenger railroads between the beginning and about 1860 or so. If you can't get it at the library, it's worth buying it because it's such a good read. Well illustrated too. Also, look up anything you can find about the Pullman Company which was the first to introduce sleeping cars.

https://www.amazon.com/Railway-Jour...5550&sprefix=The+Railway+Journ,aps,199&sr=8-1

I hate those huge URLs but it works. You can send me a PM too about specific questions and I will at least be able to know where to look.

One thing to keep in mind is that in 1850, railroads didn't extend much beyond the Mississippi River, so the longest trip one could take was about twenty-four hours. With the first transcontinental line in 1869, it was over three days to the West Coast (still is in fact!).

 

[gunhilltrain]

If there was a toilet (rather unlikely in the 1850s), it would be nothing more than a seat over a hole emptying right down onto the tracks. Cold, dusty, smelly and, often as not, the conductor would lock the compartment while the train was in the station. Washing hands and even toilet paper required foresight. Absent even one of those minimal facilities, one had to wait until the next station and hope that the lineup was short.

Hard to believe, but even with flush toilets the practice of dumping onto the tracks continued until the Amtrak era. Everything they ordered after 1971 had retention tanks (like a bus or airplane). Near the end of the "heritage fleet" (the cars they inherited from the private companies) they needed a waiver from the FRA to operate the last of the old sleeping cars.

 

[gunhilltrain]

There was a great belief in the "Victorian" era that if you went faster that 40mph your skin might come off your face.
The early carriages were open top, because freight was actually the important thing to move around- coal and iron and the such to feed the industries. So people moving was pretty basic.

So...it would have been windy, weather beaten and not pleasant. But marginally quicker than horse drawn cart.

B

Closed - roofed - carriages became standard very soon after the beginning in the 1830s. Sealed windows didn't come in until the introduction of air conditioning in the 1930s. So, yeah, locomotive smoke came in during the summer. I rode cars with windows that could open (no air conditioning) as late as 1984 in New Jersey. The thing that made me nervous was that people would trow things at the train and you would had no protection at all.

This one is electric (1910s vintage) but the windows could be opened and they were. This was one that ran up to 1984.

https://www.rgvrrm.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/DLW2628_Roster.jpg

 

[gunhilltrain]

You might want to consider ca 1870 as that was ROUGHLY physically like what most people think when they think 'Early train travel'

No, the 1830s through the 1860s had plenty of passenger trains in both Europe and America. This looks like a typical 1850s train. Three days to Iowa is a bit slow, but eventually it could be done in about thirty hours. (Still does on Amtrak!)

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Wow, there's a lot of knowledge here.

Thank you all.

I think I'm going to move the time up. I can easily enough fiddle it to 1870.

-Billie

 

[MillieDynamite]

My editor and publisher has an anachronism in his western novel, Michelle Tanner Going West. He knew it wasn't accurate but didn't think it was that important. He had the railroad dead end in KC in 1864, which isn't the mistake. He had them cross the Mississippi River via a bridge in 1864. Also, most of the tracks in Missouri were constantly being repaired. It was the Civil War, after all. And the Bridge hadn't been built for the Kansas Pacific Railroad yet. It wasn't even the Kansas Pacific Railroad until you left Kansas City.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Wow, there's a lot of knowledge here.

Thank you all.

I think I'm going to move the time up. I can easily enough fiddle it to 1870.

-Billie

You're welcome! Do you have destinations figured out yet? Is this in America? Probably the story should have people traveling on a specific journey.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/classic/CARdwgs22.html

The green coach in the middle of the page probably would be what you are looking for regarding the 1870s.

 

[MillieDynamite]

The Union Pacific's northern route was through Nebraska and Wyoming, just in case that's the route. If you use the route through Denver and up to Cheyenne, that was actually called Union Pacific, Eastern Division (U.P.R.R., E.D.) until sometime in the 1870s when it was renamed The Kansas Pacific Railroad.

Wow, there's a lot of knowledge here.

Thank you all.

I think I'm going to move the time up. I can easily enough fiddle it to 1870.

-Billie

 

[gunhilltrain]

My editor and publisher has an anachronism in his western novel, Michelle Tanner Going West. He knew it wasn't accurate but didn't think it was that important. He had the railroad dead end in KC in 1864, which isn't the mistake. He had them cross the Mississippi River via a bridge in 1864. Also, most of the tracks in Missouri were constantly being repaired. It was the Civil War, after all. And the Bridge hadn't been built for the Kansas Pacific Railroad yet. It wasn't even the Kansas Pacific Railroad until you left Kansas City.

Probably the Eads Bridge at St. Louis would be the one you used to cross the Mississippi and that didn't open until 1874. I'd have to look up the railroad that ran from St. Louis to Kansas City.

 

[HordHolm]

So, just out of interest, I thought I'd research when the first service actually went coast to coast in the US. And 'uncle Google' (as my daughter calls it) is not being very helpful with this information. It happily repeats, again and again (regardless of the varieties of search terms I use), the date of the golden spike ceremony, and then points out that this didn't actually fully join the coasts (yes! I know now, thank you Google). Anyone got any idea when the first actual through service ran (east to west or vice verse)?