Republican excuse-making

[Le Jacquelope]

Has anyone noticed all the excuse making by the right wing lately?

"President Clinton caused the unemployment problem, not Bush"

"George Bush isn't the only person who said there were WMD's in Iraq"

In both cases I agreed way back in the day.

I agreed, and still do, that Clinton caused the recession and collapse in the job market. What's going on now, was started in Clinton's final year of office - the stock market plunge, the layoffs, and so on. 9/11 made things worse. Enron, which really opened the nation's eyes about how bad things were, was again the fault of the Clinton years; Clinton gave Enron taxpayer money and tax breaks to expand their fraudulent business.

It's true that Bush wasn't the first to say there were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. This is not up for argument among those who know the facts.

What the problem now is, it's been 4 years and there's been very little improvement.

Bush did not re-check his facts to see if previous claims of WMD's in Iraq were true. He had been told by numerous people to do so, and he ignored them. Now we're mired in a totally unproductive war in Iraq that has changed from a head on confrontation with Iraqi troops, to guerilla attacks on Iraqis and Americans alike, from groups who aren't affiliated with Saddam Hussein. Many aren't even affiliated with Al Qaeda. What we're seeing now are attacks from Iraqis who don't want Saddam, and who aren't with Al Qaeda - they just want us gone. Oh, and no WMD's have been found, either.

We have had 3 years of job losses and the most modest (1000 jobs a month) gains, under Bush's administration. In total, we've lost over 2 million jobs since he's gotten into office. Bush has done nothing but provide tax breaks for people who aren't doing any more hiring. In fact, they're taking all the jobs overseas because they can get the work done in cheap, unsafe workplaces. Bush has further looted our economy by refusing to cut spending, and putting an additional $300 annual tax burden on every American man, woman and child, in the name of "fixing up Iraq". But yet Bush's sympathizers continue to blame the job situation on Clinton, cyclic unemployment, and everything else except Bush.

It's time for the apologists to stop blaming everyone else for Bush's failures. Bush needs to start accepting responsibility for his own actions and the damage it has done to America's jobs, and its credibility in foreign policy.

 

[GeorgeWBush]

Yes the republicans do need to take the blame for everything.

When clinton was in office the republicans did everything they could to block the democrats from doing anything.

The rebulicans want to turn this country into a christian only country they want to control the anyone middle class and under.

The republicans wasted millons and millions of dollars trying to get clinton out of office like, nanny gate, white water, travel gate, sex, moking pot.

The people did not care about the sex or pot smoking, white water was alreadyinvestigated and found no wrong doing but no the republicans had to keep bringing it up.

So the republicans are the one that made this country fucked up.

I admit the democrates are not much better.

Now bush wants to let migrante wrker to come to america and work at the jobs we don't want which will lead to lower pay for jobs that pay more but the migrant worker getting and others losing jobs due to those that will work for cheaper.

 

[RhumbRunner13]

What the problem now is, it's been 4 years and there's been very little improvement.

Horse crap!

I rode the "decline and fall" of the American Economy through from begining to end!

I saw and lived with/accepted the decline (crash).

I waited.

My funds are higher today than ever, up over $150,000 from the low....and you tell me that things haven't improved?

You are a liberal democrat, aren't you?

What a bunch of shit!

Rhumb

 

[Ham Murabi]

I agreed, and still do, that Clinton caused the recession and collapse in the job market. What's going on now, was started in Clinton's final year of office - the stock market plunge, the layoffs, and so on.

How did Clinton cause the recession?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

What the problem now is, it's been 4 years and there's been very little improvement.

Horse crap!

I rode the "decline and fall" of the American Economy through from begining to end!

I saw and lived with/accepted the decline (crash).

I waited.

My funds are higher today than ever, up over $150,000 from the low....and you tell me that things haven't improved?

You are a liberal democrat, aren't you?

What a bunch of shit!

Rhumb

YOUR funds don't mean crapadoodle. The over 2 million jobs LOST is far more relevant. There is no such thing as an improvement until jobs are created. Period.

And Clinton caused our recession by raising taxes through the roof like he did, in the country's largest tax increases in history. That was one way. Then he did a ton of spending. Does ANYONE remember the deal Clinton struck with OPEC to raise the price of oil to $18-20 a barrel in early 1999? That had a huge effect on the entire world economy. Clinton continued the legacy of total deregulation of the energy industry that led to the collapse of Enron.

There are plenty of sources that also point out the recession started in the Clinton years and not the Bush years.

So you could either blame it on Clinton, or Clinton and the Republican Congress.

 

[Ham Murabi]

YOUR funds don't mean crapadoodle. The over 2 million jobs LOST is far more relevant. There is no such thing as an improvement until jobs are created. Period.

And Clinton caused our recession by raising taxes through the roof like he did, in the country's largest tax increases in history. That was one way. Then he did a ton of spending. Does ANYONE remember the deal Clinton struck with OPEC to raise the price of oil to $18-20 a barrel in early 1999? That had a huge effect on the entire world economy. Clinton continued the legacy of total deregulation of the energy industry that led to the collapse of Enron.

There are plenty of sources that also point out the recession started in the Clinton years and not the Bush years.

So you could either blame it on Clinton, or Clinton and the Republican Congress.

I'm not disputing Clinton was in office when the recent recession started. But the tax increases you cite were front-loaded — they were passed by Congress before the Republicans gained majorities in both houses in 1994. Those tax hikes in 1993 stalled the economy that was clearly improving prior to the 1992 election.
The fact is no economy just keeps on growing without any hiccups. The dotcom bubble burst (remember all those stories about all those investors who kept shoving money into internet businesses that never came close to showing a profit?) and a lot of high-paying jobs vanished.
I keep hearing about the 2.5 million lost jobs, but then earlier this week I also heard there are more people in the U.S. that have jobs than at any other time in our history. I hear job creation is slow, but I also hear unemployment figures are fairly static. One would think that if 2.5 million jobs were lost, on top of the others already unemployed, the jobless figure would be at least three or four percentage points higher than it is.
High taxes can slow down an economy or put it into recession, no question. And there are other ways government can harm the economy, including excessive regulation. I'll save the story about OSHA's visit to my business for another day, but the end result was nothing more than extortion.
I'll wrap this up by pointing out 900 jobs were lost in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago. I can't blame the president, though. It was mismanagement at Binion's Horseshoe, one of Vegas's oldest casinos.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

The fact is no economy just keeps on growing without any hiccups. The dotcom bubble burst (remember all those stories about all those investors who kept shoving money into internet businesses that never came close to showing a profit?) and a lot of high-paying jobs vanished.

The problem is they had nowhere to go from there. Even McDonald's started laying off and closing stores.

I keep hearing about the 2.5 million lost jobs, but then earlier this week I also heard there are more people in the U.S. that have jobs than at any other time in our history. I hear job creation is slow, but I also hear unemployment figures are fairly static. One would think that if 2.5 million jobs were lost, on top of the others already unemployed, the jobless figure would be at least three or four percentage points higher than it is.

It's a well known fact that unemployment figures do not consider those who have quit looking due to frustration, or whose benefits have run out.

High taxes can slow down an economy or put it into recession, no question. And there are other ways government can harm the economy, including excessive regulation. I'll save the story about OSHA's visit to my business for another day, but the end result was nothing more than extortion.
I'll wrap this up by pointing out 900 jobs were lost in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago. I can't blame the president, though. It was mismanagement at Binion's Horseshoe, one of Vegas's oldest casinos.

Jeez, they could have begged for bailouts the way the airline industry has done.

Unlike the average citizen, corporations don't get all the scorn from Libertarian and Right Wing for sucking off the Government tit.

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Yes the republicans do need to take the blame for everything.

When clinton was in office the republicans did everything they could to block the democrats from doing anything.

The rebulicans want to turn this country into a christian only country they want to control the anyone middle class and under.

The republicans wasted millons and millions of dollars trying to get clinton out of office like, nanny gate, white water, travel gate, sex, moking pot.

The people did not care about the sex or pot smoking, white water was alreadyinvestigated and found no wrong doing but no the republicans had to keep bringing it up.

So the republicans are the one that made this country fucked up.

I admit the democrates are not much better.

Now bush wants to let migrante wrker to come to america and work at the jobs we don't want which will lead to lower pay for jobs that pay more but the migrant worker getting and others losing jobs due to those that will work for cheaper.

You are kinda one sided dont you think.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

You are kinda one sided dont you think.

Who on here isn't?

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Gee i think it works like this.

Replicans make it easer on businesses by alowing them to do what ever they want. Then the businesses creat jobs. People go to work and bring home money to spend. They spend it, and life is good. Then if businees is not good then the republicans give the businesses money so people can keep thier jobs, and the wealthy owners (any one with mutual funds) do't loose more money.

Democrats make it harder on businesses, they regulate to much so people dont want to start a business. The jobs go some place else with no democrats. So we have all these unemployed people that need jobs.

Is that how it works?

 

[GeorgeWBush]

I'll wrap this up by pointing out 900 jobs were lost in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago. I can't blame the president, though. It was mismanagement at Binion's Horseshoe, one of Vegas's oldest casinos. [/QUOTe

About Binions it was mismanagement but also the unions instead of working somethig out to get the portion of money that were due them. They went and took it to court and then the feds came in and closed it.

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Who on here isn't?

I guess, but blaiming just one side for all the problems or successes is not accurate. No one can convince me that the economy is all Clintons or Bushes fault. One thing clinton did do well is not fuck up the econ. when it was going well. It will get back on track, but it will have nothing to do with the president. When there is a new technolagy that people need, want, and can afford, and the price of oil goes down. The Econ will go up.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Gee i think it works like this.

Replicans make it easer on businesses by alowing them to do what ever they want. Then the businesses creat jobs. People go to work and bring home money to spend. They spend it, and life is good. Then if businees is not good then the republicans give the businesses money so people can keep thier jobs, and the wealthy owners (any one with mutual funds) do't loose more money.

Democrats make it harder on businesses, they regulate to much so people dont want to start a business. The jobs go some place else with no democrats. So we have all these unemployed people that need jobs.

Is that how it works?

Life isn't so simple.

Without regulation, you have incidents like the Dow Chemical tragedy in Bhopal, India, Love Canal in the US, and of course, Enron.

Let's spin this another way.

Republicans make it easier for businesses to screw up the environment, create dangerous workplaces, and propagate sweatshop conditions. Left unchecked, Republicans would bring back the Company Town days of old. People work until they're too sick from extreme stress and environmental hazards to work anymore, and too broke to pay for their medical care. Republicans also grant lots of welfare benefits to corporations.

Democrats defend the rights that workers have gained over the decades: the 40 hour work week, workplace safety laws, and child labor laws. They're also why we have less pollution and industrially poisoned rivers than we could have.

See how easy that is?

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Life isn't so simple.

Without regulation, you have incidents like the Dow Chemical tragedy in Bhopal, India, Love Canal in the US, and of course, Enron.

Let's spin this another way.

Republicans make it easier for businesses to screw up the environment, create dangerous workplaces, and propagate sweatshop conditions. Left unchecked, Republicans would bring back the Company Town days of old. People work until they're too sick from extreme stress and environmental hazards to work anymore, and too broke to pay for their medical care. Republicans also grant lots of welfare benefits to corporations.

Democrats defend the rights that workers have gained over the decades: the 40 hour work week, workplace safety laws, and child labor laws. They're also why we have less pollution and industrially poisoned rivers than we could have.

See how easy that is?

Yes, and I'm glad you made your point so quickly and so well.

Any extream shift to either side would be a disaster.

We need balance. We want the job, but there has to be some sort of regulation. How much or how little I dont realy know.

But i do know, as stated by our the two examples, that extream positions do not work, but balance and compramize does. In most cases. The are always examples that do not fit.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Yes, and I'm glad you made your point so quickly and so well.

Any extream shift to either side would be a disaster.

We need balance. We want the job, but there has to be some sort of regulation. How much or how little I dont realy know.

But i do know, as stated by our the two examples, that extream positions do not work, but balance and compramize does. In most cases. The are always examples that do not fit.

That's why I revile Bush and Clinton alike, and I voted for Republican Tom McClintock in California.

I'm what you call an independent voter. Although some people on Lit believe that being an independent voter is a bad thing, and that you should align yourself with one of the two alpha males of the political pack (where else would you find stupidity like that?).

 

[ruminator]

Gee i think it works like this.

Replicans make it easer on businesses by alowing them to do what ever they want. Then the businesses creat jobs. People go to work and bring home money to spend. They spend it, and life is good. Then if businees is not good then the republicans give the businesses money so people can keep thier jobs, and the wealthy owners (any one with mutual funds) do't loose more money.

Democrats make it harder on businesses, they regulate to much so people dont want to start a business. The jobs go some place else with no democrats. So we have all these unemployed people that need jobs.

Is that how it works?

That's the way it used to be, but no more.
The job creation is lagging way behind and being undercut also by outsourcing. The corporations are still getting the breaks but we are getting less benefit in return.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

That's the way it used to be, but no more.
The job creation is lagging way behind and being undercut also by outsourcing. The corporations are still getting the breaks but we are getting less benefit in return.

A simple question to ask anyone who says "downsized people simple move on to new careers" and "the invention of cars was truly no threat to everyone driving horses and carts" is to ask where are the new industries at?

We had a huge new industry in the form of computers and the internet revolution. That evaporated in record time. What's coming out now?