Reparations for black people as a result of slavery?

[LJ_Reloaded]

Oh hell no, you say.

Yet reparations were paid to slave owners for their losses. No problem with that, of course.

http://sojo.net/blogs/2010/01/15/devils-reparations-haitis-debt

This might be a reasonable time to point out that, when Haiti threw out the French, it was the latter who were on the side of evil -- first, as slave-owners (Haiti was the only modern nation created by a slave revolt). And then, when Haitians had finally attained freedom from plantation chattel slavery, France forced Haiti to pay reparations to the former slave-owners, to compensate them for their loss of "property."

You read that sentence right -- the ex-slaves were forced to pay their former masters, the equivalent of $21 billion (billion-with-a-b) in today's dollars. It took the tiny nation from 1825 to 1947 -- that's right, over a century -- to finish paying off this "debt," a crushing burden which bled away resources for education and economic development.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ven-huge-payouts-after-abolition-8508358.html

The true scale of Britain's involvement in the slave trade has been laid bare in documents revealing how the country's wealthiest families received the modern equivalent of billions of pounds in compensation after slavery was abolished.

 

[Balladeer08]

Oh hell no, you say.

Yet reparations were paid to slave owners for their losses. No problem with that, of course.
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You're about 150 years too late. Nobody living has been legally a slave in the U.S.

And the fact that Haiti paid reparations to French slave owners is an apples/oranges argument.

Troll on!

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

You're about 150 years too late. Nobody living has been legally a slave in the U.S.

But they have descendants who are still paying a very heavy economic price.

And existing corporations like JP Morgan, Aetna and FleetBoston Financial rank among many that benefited from slavery.

 

[CHNOPS]

A reparations thread. Edgy!

 

[rosco rathbone]

This is trolling at its finest, because this is actually a fascinating topic.

It's closely related to the problem of primitive accumulation of capital which confounds all libertarian theories.

All of human culture is built on an edifice of crime and blood. Where do we draw the line?

 

[CHNOPS]

This is trolling at its finest, because this is actually a fascinating topic.

It's closely related to the problem of primitive accumulation of capital which confounds all libertarian theories.

All of human culture is built on an edifice of crime and blood. Where do we draw the line?

The line is easy to draw: it's right in front of 'my' blood.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

This is trolling at its finest, because this is actually a fascinating topic.

It's closely related to the problem of primitive accumulation of capital which confounds all libertarian theories.

All of human culture is built on an edifice of crime and blood. Where do we draw the line?

Most people would scream that your post is off topic. (*cough* AJ or Ishmael, anyone?) I on the other hand say it inconveniently gouges at the heart of the matter. Problem is, it doesn't attract to itself an easy answer, although IMO Social Democracy comes closest.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Most people would scream that your post is off topic. (*cough* AJ or Ishmael, anyone?) I on the other hand say it inconveniently gouges at the heart of the matter. Problem is, it doesn't attract to itself an easy answer, although IMO Social Democracy comes closest.

The libertarian apologists I can get on board with advocate something like a "40 acres and a mule" program where--since we're going to reset the whole game and declare that liberty begins....now! and that every man will be responsible for his own fate henceforth--equity demands that everyone begin with a piece of the pie. Mr Anarcho-Capitalism himself, Murray Rothbard, took this position if I'm not mistaken.

The only other viable justification for libertarianism would be that might makes right, and most libertarians will insist up one side and down the other that theirs is not a might-makes-right ideology. Of course by those rules we'd have to return half of Georgia to the Cherokees and Creeks, with interest paid for the two centuries we borrowed that land.

Everyone hates the idea of "reparations", but its obvious that there was a general consensus in our culture that something on that order was owed, thus affirmative action.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

The libertarian apologists I can get on board with advocate something like a "40 acres and a mule" program where--since we're going to reset the whole game and declare that liberty begins....now! and that every man will be responsible for his own fate henceforth--equity demands that everyone begin with a piece of the pie. Mr Anarcho-Capitalism himself, Murray Rothbard, took this position if I'm not mistaken.

The only other viable justification for libertarianism would be that might makes right, and most libertarians will insist up one side and down the other that theirs is not a might-makes-right ideology. Of course by those rules we'd have to return half of Georgia to the Cherokees and Creeks, with interest paid for the two centuries we borrowed that land.

Everyone hates the idea of "reparations", but its obvious that there was a general consensus in our culture that something on that order was owed, thus affirmative action.

Damn, true that, all the way across. And they really don't want to get into reparations to the native Americans. BTW slavery is still an integral part of globalization. Now that gets even messier. But I'm willing to wade into that.

 

[rosco rathbone]

The line is easy to draw: it's right in front of 'my' blood.

Cogent, chnops.

 

[Liar]

Jon Stewart said that when people start saying "Let's not play the blame game"... yeah, they're to blame.

I suspect the same is true for those who say "Let bygones be bygones".

 

[John Doe]

But they have descendants who are still paying a very heavy economic price.

And existing corporations like JP Morgan, Aetna and FleetBoston Financial rank among many that benefited from slavery.

And BMW built aircraft for the Nazis. Who gives a fuck?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Most people would scream that your post is off topic. (*cough* AJ or Ishmael, anyone?) I on the other hand say it inconveniently gouges at the heart of the matter. Problem is, it doesn't attract to itself an easy answer, although IMO Social Democracy comes closest.

You mean even the Jamaicans?


You are a loon. You are a race-baiter. What about reparations to the tribes?


How about reparations to the aboriginals? Social Democracy has proven to be a failure; in country after country in Europe, we are seeing them run out of people to loot to give to the "Social Conscious" (aka - the unwashed voting mob).


And really LT, if you have a problem with rosco, then talk to rosco because Ish and I regard your threads pretty much as the black-hate Liberation theology version of POGO...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The libertarian apologists I can get on board with advocate something like a "40 acres and a mule" program where--since we're going to reset the whole game and declare that liberty begins....now! and that every man will be responsible for his own fate henceforth--equity demands that everyone begin with a piece of the pie. Mr Anarcho-Capitalism himself, Murray Rothbard, took this position if I'm not mistaken.

The only other viable justification for libertarianism would be that might makes right, and most libertarians will insist up one side and down the other that theirs is not a might-makes-right ideology. Of course by those rules we'd have to return half of Georgia to the Cherokees and Creeks, with interest paid for the two centuries we borrowed that land.

Everyone hates the idea of "reparations", but its obvious that there was a general consensus in our culture that something on that order was owed, thus affirmative action.

A typical lib program; to be fair, someone must be hurt, punished and abused, to remiss for discrimination, now someone must be discriminated against based upon the color of their skin.

Rothbard would say that you could divide up everything and give everyone an equal portion and in a short order, you would get to about the same structure we have now. If we want to raise the black community to levels of prosperity, we must stop treating them as some tender and victimized class of sub-human that cannot be told with the same force of fighting Christians currently employed, that they must pull up their pants, speak English, do well in school and stop engaging in violence and misogyny instead of engaging in the reparation of lowered expectation which fosters the attitude that skin color makes you impervious to success, therefore your aberrant behaviors must be understood and tolerated in much the same way as LT expects us to embrace his insane hatred of white people, which usually manifests itself, of course, in the degradation of the white woman through raunchy and demeaning sexual acts which can be depicted and celebrated on line as putting them in their place.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Does Obama get 20 acres and a side of mule?

He isn't even "authentic."

[voice=Al Sharpton][tone=megaphone][tune=Puff, the Magic Dragon]

Barack the Magic Negro lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's not authentic like me.
Yeah, the guy from the L.A. paper
Said he makes guilty whites feel good
They'll vote for him, and not for me
'Cause he's not from the hood.

See, real black men, like Snoop Dog,
Or me, or Farrakhan
Have talked the talk, and walked the walk.
Not come in late and won!

Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's black, but not authentically.
Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's black, but not authentically.

Some say Barack's "articulate"
And bright and new and "clean."
The media sure loves this guy,
A white interloper's dream!
But, when you vote for president,
Watch out, and don't be fooled!
Don't vote the Magic Negro in ...
'Cause ... [/tune]

Cause I won't have nothing after all these years of sacrifice
And I won't get justice. This is about justice. This isn't about me, it's about justice.
It's about buffet. I don't have no buffet and there won't be any church contributions,
And there'll be no cash in the collection plate.
There ain't gonna be no cash money, no walkin' around money, no folding money.
Now, Barack's going to come in here and ........

*squelch* [/tone][/voice]

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Start them off early. Junior is making reparations on his pram:

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Jon Stewart said that when people start saying "Let's not play the blame game"... yeah, they're to blame.

I suspect the same is true for those who say "Let bygones be bygones".

Yup, it's always the ones who benefit from injustice, that want the subject to be kept quiet.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Start them off early. Junior is making reparations on his pram:

You should spring for some decent tools...



Don't look now, but crazy is in da house!

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Makes me feel like Grumpy:

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

If I never owned any slaves, if my family never owned any slaves, if my family only lived where it was illegal, why again should I pay a damned thing?


Hell, all we had was plow-horses and chickens...

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

So the going white man's argument is "it's been x hundred years, so we don't owe reparations".

So if I kill you, steal your car, pass it on to my kids and my descendants keep it for 200 years, is it ours forever?

 

[MatthewVett]

Everyone hates the idea of "reparations", but its obvious that there was a general consensus in our culture that something on that order was owed, thus affirmative action.

Affirmative action isn't about "reparations." If it were, why do Asians get hit by it? Were we too nice to them? Do you think the expression "Chinaman's Chance" is a good thing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinaman's_chance

 

[MatthewVett]

If I never owned any slaves, if my family never owned any slaves, if my family only lived where it was illegal, why again should I pay a damned thing?


Hell, all we had was plow-horses and chickens...

Do you sincerely think that you have in no way benefited from the practice of slavery in any way whatsoever? Considering your comment, I assume you live in the US, and if you do, you live in a nation built on the backs of slaves. At the time of the civil war, slaves were the most valuable asset in the entire national economy.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Does Obama get 20 acres and a side of mule?

He isn't even "authentic."

[voice=Al Sharpton][tone=megaphone][tune=Puff, the Magic Dragon]

Barack the Magic Negro lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's not authentic like me.
Yeah, the guy from the L.A. paper
Said he makes guilty whites feel good
They'll vote for him, and not for me
'Cause he's not from the hood.

See, real black men, like Snoop Dog,
Or me, or Farrakhan
Have talked the talk, and walked the walk.
Not come in late and won!

Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's black, but not authentically.
Oh, Barack the Magic Negro, lives in D.C.
The L.A. Times, they called him that
'Cause he's black, but not authentically.

Some say Barack's "articulate"
And bright and new and "clean."
The media sure loves this guy,
A white interloper's dream!
But, when you vote for president,
Watch out, and don't be fooled!
Don't vote the Magic Negro in ...
'Cause ... [/tune]

Cause I won't have nothing after all these years of sacrifice
And I won't get justice. This is about justice. This isn't about me, it's about justice.
It's about buffet. I don't have no buffet and there won't be any church contributions,
And there'll be no cash in the collection plate.
There ain't gonna be no cash money, no walkin' around money, no folding money.
Now, Barack's going to come in here and ........

*squelch* [/tone][/voice]

Soon Yi says: AJ-san velly velly funny!

 

[BotanyBoy]

But they have descendants who are still paying a very heavy economic price.

Name one heavy price that descendants of slaves specifically, suffer under today...right now. Name one....just one.

So the going white man's argument is "it's been x hundred years, so we don't owe reparations".

Uhhh....didn't own any slaves....don't owe anyone shit.