Remembering Spalding Gray

[shereads]

"If I'm not present in the act of skiing, or if I think, "Hey, I'm skiing," that's when I go down."

"I only see through loss, death and my right eye (my left eye is very impaired). I only start to see the color of everything, the intensity of everything when I'm leaving it."

"I fantasize about going back to high school with the knowledge I have now. I would shine. I would have a good time, I would have a girlfriend."

From his novel, Impossible Vacation:

"I remember standing in that second-story window and looking down, wondering if I really had the courage to jump and if I did would it kill me from such a small height. I think I figured I'd just break a leg or something and end up in a cast for the rest of the summer, and that would be much better than dying because of all the attention I'd get. But then I also realized that Mom wouldn't be able to give me any attention, because she was cracking up and needed all of it for herself."

--------

I'll remember Spalding Gray for Impossible Vacation; as the writer and compelling on-screen presence of the autobiographical monologues, Swimming to Cambodia and Monster In a Box; and as the brilliant, funny, self-obsessed bastard who called his six-year-old son to say goodbye before he took his own life.

Gray's wife told a reporter in the weeks before his body was found, "Every time the phone rings and someone hangs up, I dial Star 69; you just never know. It could be him."

Rest in peace anyway, S.G.

 

[shereads]

http://lightacandle.sol.dk/Images/lys4.gif

I don't know if this will show up tonight since the Light A Candle website is unreachable, but it's the least I can do.

Thank you, min.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

His death shook me up. I had thought that he'd exorcised all his devils, that that's where his humor came from, but I guess not. I understand that he'd been in a bad auto accident a couple of years ago in Ireland, and that maybe that had something to do with it. His mother committed suicide when she was 51. Spalding was 62, I believe.

To chalk it up to depression is too facile and just begs the question. Not all suicide is an act of anger or a cry for help. Sometimes a person just wants out. That's what I think this was.

---dr.M.

 

[shereads]

His death shook me up. I had thought that he'd exorcised all his devils, that that's where his humor came from, but I guess not. I understand that he'd been in a bad auto accident a couple of years ago in Ireland, and that maybe that had something to do with it. His mother committed suicide when she was 51. Spalding was 62, I believe.

To chalk it up to depression is too facile and just begs the question. Not all suicide is an act of anger or a cry for help. Sometimes a person just wants out. That's what I think this was.

---dr.M.

In his work, his fascination with death didn't indicate the need to escape from life, so much as a belief that facing death would make him feel truly alive and "present." His novel, Impossible Vacation, is about the search for an elusive "perfect moment," a piece of life that lives up to the fantasy.

The lack of grace is more disturbing than the death. When he disappeared, I read that he had threatened suicide by a variety of means since his accident in 2000, including a note left on the kitchen table where it was found by one of his kids.
Can anyone communicate with such perception, and care so little for his own children that he would burden them with foreknowledge of his suicide?

I want to believe that the accident in 2000 took him over, that he wasn't responsible, that his death was not an act of unpardonable cruelty by a lucid husband and father. I'd like to believe that when he spent years writing about suicide, it wasn't an announcement of intent, but the expression of a fantasy, and that his injuries made death inevitable.

Edited to add: On the other hand, screw him. I understand the need to escape, but it angers me that someone who spends years considering suicide would allow people to be close to him, dare them to save him, force them to fail.

 

[minsue]

http://lightacandle.sol.dk/Images/lys4.gif

I don't know if this will show up tonight since the Light A Candle website is unreachable, but it's the least I can do.

 

[Guest]

I've known suicides, and read (much) about the lives of others. Having been suicidal more than once, I did what I always do about something that interests or affects me, I study. I know it may be most difficult (to understate it) for those who loved them, but I learned first hand that one really cannot judge a suicide.

Perdita

 

[Pure]

The world has suffered a great loss in Spalding. I still remember "Swimming to Cambodia" from years back. We know he successfuly battled a number of inner demons, and left the world a richer place; his views transcended politics.

As others have mentioned, the re emergence of his depression followed severe injuries in an accident. When life becomes unbearable--apart from the issue of dependent children--I think a person has to be allowed to make that judgement in his/her own terms, and way.

If, as Sher appears to suggest, there's any injustice/cruelty by the suicide to those who remain and become 'failures' in their attempts to save, it's equally unfair, indeed cruel, for me or anyone to say to that person on the brink: "It doesn't matter if YOU feel life is unbearable, I would feel awful if you aren't around, and so you must not do it." And perhaps almost sadistic, assuming a friend is lucid and has had time to reflect, to say "I'm going to stop you."

 

[lucky-E-leven]

The world has suffered a great loss in Spalding. I still remember "Swimming to Cambodia" from years back. We know he successfuly battled a number of inner demons, and left the world a richer place; his views transcended politics.

As others have mentioned, the re emergence of his depression followed severe injuries in an accident. When life becomes unbearable--apart from the issue of dependent children--I think a person has to be allowed to make that judgement in his/her own terms, and way.

If, as Sher appears to suggest, there's any injustice/cruelty by the suicide to those who remain and become 'failures' in their attempts to save, it's equally unfair, indeed cruel, for me or anyone to say to that person on the brink: "It doesn't matter if YOU feel life is unbearable, I would feel awful if you aren't around, and so you must not do it." And perhaps almost sadistic, assuming a friend is lucid and has had time to reflect, to say "I'm going to stop you."

I didn't take this from Sher's post at all. I think the cruelty in advertising such a traumatic occurence to young children who are incapable of understanding such things is very real. It's a tragic state of affairs that brings someone to this level of despair and just as each person should be able to decide how they manage unexpected pregnancies, terminal illness or crippling mental illness they should also be able to determine whether or not they can go on.

Having said that, it is an infringement on the people around them to carelessly leave about clues, hints and warnings of their impending demise. I cannot imagine being Gray's wife and having to talk to my child about their father's death at his own hands, but it is even more difficult to wrap my mind around having to explain to that child how and why their father went about it the way he did. No judgments here but is it too much to ask that they do their best to avoid any more destruction than the already tremendous loss of a father?

Maybe it's all connected, I don't know. I've been very close to two suicides and have felt emotions ranging from sadness/despair to anger/rage. I do my best to be fair and understand that many people will suffer such a loss, but I believe there are ways to avoid causing more pain than is necessary.

~lucky

 

[minsue]

http://www.angelfire.com/la3/maryshome/miscwhiteroselge.gif

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Let me preface this by stating that I'm not trying to play amatuer psychologist here and I'm not speaking from anything but my own experiences.

When I have been suicidal in the past one of the recurring themes has always been to avoid causing more pain than necessary. One of the beautifully evil things about mental illness is that it can bring with it the belief that those you love would have much less pain and sadness in their lives if you weren't around to cause it.

Again, though, I've no earthly idea what was going on in the mind of Spaulding Gray or anyone else who has committed suicide.



- Mindy

I understand this (as much as I'm capable) and hope you didn't misread my post. I'm not advocating that those who are desperate to the point of suicide, decide to live only for the happiness of those around them if they cannot. I also believe they think they are doing society/loved ones a favor.

I simply think there is a best and a worst way to handle it. I suppose we can't expect people to be completely rational during times like these, but my Uncle took his own life eight months ago and how everything happened has haunted me ever since.

Dying of cancer and no longer the man he was, I actually understood the why behind it. It was the how that wakes me up in the middle of the night with cold sweats.

I don't delude myself into thinking that there's a positive way to go about suicide, but there is no doubt in my mind that there is a less painful way and a more painful way. I just wish the less painful way was more clear to people faced with such a decision.

~lucky

minsue

 

[shereads]

deleted

 

[shereads]

Oh hell. Deleted this one too.

 

[minsue]

I'm sorry, sher. I didn't mean to threadjack. It was definitely inappropriate and I apologize.

 

[shereads]

I'm sorry, sher. I didn't mean to threadjack. It was definitely inappropriate and I apologize.

Min, you didn't threadjack and there was nothing inappropriate about your post. I have mixed feelings about all of this, and the thread is an expression of that and an invitation to hear others' thoughts. You're gracious to apologize, but it's unwarranted.

I suppose I also posted the thread because I hate that Spalding Gray's death will become some sort of artist legend, the measure of his work. It isn't romantic, but the urge to romanticize it will win out. I was drawn to his work in part because it romanticized my own preoccupation with death. He expressed his self-obsession with humor and style and made it seem acceptible to be introspective to the point of vanity.

I loved his work, thought I understood his pain. But I wouldn't have enjoyed a moment of it if I had believed he'd actually go through with this.

How sad that his young son will never know his dad as a brilliant writer, but as the writer who jumped off the Staten Island Ferry. Will the son follow the father as Spalding Gray followed his mother? Having suffered the anguish of a parent's suicide, he left his children to suffer the same way, but publicly. He taught them that this is something they cannot overcome. I hope he was wrong; I hope they don't believe him.

I agree with everything Lucky said. Having been near that brink myself years ago, the thing that held me back was an understanding that others would blame themselves no matter how I did it or what I said to excuse them. I'm fortunate to have had help before I reached a point where I didn't care, or became incapable of sparing anyone pain by enduring my own. I know I can't see into the heart and mind of someone who gives up that struggle. But I know that in my own heart, I was almost ready to excuse myself for giving up. "They'd be better off without me" is the lie we tell ourselves when we can't bear the truth of our selfishness.

I'm angry as hell at the effect of a suicide on the lives of my friends, but I love the one who died and I forgive even as I rage. There was no cruelty in her. Yet the act itself, the brutality of it, seems inexplicably cruel. It's simply that: inexplicable. She didn't end her pain; she multiplied it a dozen times over and left others to deal with it.