Remembering JFK 22 November 1963

[oggbashan]

I remember the shock of the news of President John F Kennedy's assassination.

To me, and many in the UK, we didn't know or care what political party he belonged to. We saw him as a strong caring US President who represented hope for the world.

His death was an irreplaceable loss. The impact was as strongly felt then as 9/11 was later. It's impact was worldwide.

Why and how he died were less important than his absence.

History, with pitiless hindsight, has deconstructed the Kennedy myth. All I know is that at the time I felt I had lost a friend.

Og

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Thank you Og.

I was one at the time. Its also my parents wedding anniversary date....like the good and sad combined.

One has to wonder what his impact on the world may have been if he had lived.

 

[Guest]

I was marveling today while listening to News radio, not one mention.

What's it mean about the US recognition of history that a Brit has to start this thread?

Thank you Og.

 

[oggbashan]

I was marveling today while listening to News radio, not one mention.

What's it mean about the US recognition of history that a Brit has to start this thread?

Thank you Og.

We Brits do have a few hours advantage at the start of each day...

Og

 

[Guest]

We Brits do have a few hours advantage at the start of each day...

Og

Yes, we layabouts are still in bed when you Brits are already at work.

Of course, we're still working when you're drinking warm ale in the pub, so I guess it balances out.

 

[oggbashan]

Yes, we layabouts are still in bed when you Brits are already at work.

Of course, we're still working when you're drinking warm ale in the pub, so I guess it balances out.

Work? What's that?

Every UK pub does offer a choice of ice-cold lagers, usually including Australian, as well as warm beer. Some even offer Budweiser. Why?

Og

 

[Guest]

Work? What's that?

Every UK pub does offer a choice of ice-cold lagers, usually including Australian, as well as warm beer. Some even offer Budweiser. Why?

Og

Same reason American tourists eat at McDonald's in Paris.

 

[oggbashan]

Same reason American tourists eat at McDonald's in Paris.

But for JFK we might not be able to buy McDonalds throughout the whole of Eastern, formerly Communist, Europe.

His 'Ich bin ein Berliner' speech halted Soviet aggression through East Germany and probably led to the eventual fall of the Berlin Wall.

Og

 

[Guest]

But for JFK we might not be able to buy McDonalds throughout the whole of Eastern, formerly Communist, Europe.

His 'Ich bin ein Berliner' speech halted Soviet aggression through East Germany and probably led to the eventual fall of the Berlin Wall.

Og

Ssshh, The Berlin Wall fell because of Reagan's military build up. That's the party line.

 

[slyc_willie]

On JFK

I was born eight years after Kenedy's assassination, and like a lot of kids growing up, had little interest in history. That changed as I grew older and eventually earned a degree in the field.

Conspiracy theories and speculation concerning the circumstances of JFK's death aside, Kennedy was a great president, of that there is no doubt. He was more than a president or diplomat; he was a humanitarian, a lover of art and letters, an eloquent and educated man. He maintained, dare I say it, a sense of nobility while in office, which was why, obviously, many refer to his presidency as a 'reign' and his family as the American Camelot.

I remember my mother once mentioning the impact Kennedy's death had upon her. She was in her twenties at the time, not yet married to my father, having come of age during the 'innocence' of the fifties and early sixties.

She told me that Kennedy's death was the day the world began to die.

In a way, I think she was right.

 

[oggbashan]

I was working in a Defence Department the day Kennedy was assassinated.

We nearly implemented the "Read this in case of sudden undeclared war" scenario. For a while life was really scary.

Og

 

[Guest]

For me, lower grades in elementary school. The teachers didn't tell us. An older boy told me while on the way home.

Everyone, if they were over 4 at the time, remember where they were when they heard of Kennedy's death, MLK's, Challenger and 9/11. If you are old enough, add Pearl Harbor.

God, let the list end.

 

[R. Richard]

His 'Ich bin ein Berliner' speech halted Soviet aggression through East Germany and probably led to the eventual fall of the Berlin Wall.

Og

Og:
I must disagree with you here.

"Tear down this wall" is the famous challenge from United States President Ronald Reagan to Soviet Union leader Mikhail Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin Wall.

In a speech at the Brandenburg Gate, by the Berlin Wall, on June 12, 1987, Reagan challenged Gorbachev, who then was the General Secretary of the Soviet Union, to tear it down as a symbol of his desire for increasing freedom in the Soviet bloc. Although the wall was technically the responsibility of the East German government, the United States considered East Germany to be a Soviet puppet state.

Reagan delivered the Tear Down This Wall speech, despite objections from the State Department and National Security Council.

 

[oggbashan]

Og:
I must disagree with you here.

"Tear down this wall" is the famous challenge from United States President Ronald Reagan to Soviet Union leader Mikhail Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin Wall.

In a speech at the Brandenburg Gate, by the Berlin Wall, on June 12, 1987, Reagan challenged Gorbachev, who then was the General Secretary of the Soviet Union, to tear it down as a symbol of his desire for increasing freedom in the Soviet bloc. Although the wall was technically the responsibility of the East German government, the United States considered East Germany to be a Soviet puppet state.

Reagan delivered the Tear Down This Wall speech, despite objections from the State Department and National Security Council.

Perhaps I phrased my statement too loosely.

JFK made the US's position clear. He, and the US, would not abandon West Berlin to the Soviets. The much earlier Berlin airlift was the first time that the West had confronted the Soviet Union.

The policy stated by JFK was still in force when Reagan made his speech.

Og

 

[slyc_willie]

Both were great men. I consider myself more liberal now, but Reagan remains my favorite president.

JFK stands as the last great president, the last true visionary, of the Democratic Party, Reagan as the last of the Republicans. IMHO, at any rate.

Were neither man to have served time in office, we would all be drinking cheap vodka and dodging radiation fallout by now.

Although some of us are drinking cheap vodka anyway . . .

I was in Berlin when the wall came down. That single day stands out in my mind, one of the few times I have been truly proud to be American. I was just about to turn 18 at the time, and I and my father had made the drive to be part of the festivities.

I remember someone handing me a heavier-than-hell sledgehammer and encouraging me to take a swing. The chunk I knocked out was covered in graffiti, with part of a heart on it.

I kept it for years. The heart seemed particularly poignant. It now resides in a very special place.

Where was I when Challenger and Columbia exploded? Where was I when Pope John Paul II was shot? When 9/11 occured? I remember.

But I prefer to think about where I was when the Wall came down.

 

[angela146]

One has to wonder what his impact on the world may have been if he had lived.

There would have been a tradeoff.

Kennedy accomplished a lot of good things by dying.

In 1963, the civil rights act was stalled in the senate. JFK's death and LBJ's skills and history in the Senate combined to allow passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and the Fair Housing Act of 1966 (I think I have the years right on those but correct me if I'm wrong).

Also, the death of JFK added a large amount of motivation to the moon landing. If JFK had lived, he would have had to fight for all of those things. By dying, he made it possible for people to make sacrifices in his memory.

Of course, I'm basing all of this on what I hear from people who remember the era, what I read in books about the time and what I see in documentaries.

1963 was several years before my parents were married and 12 years before I was born. It affected my parents very deeply on a personal level but it affects me only in the same way that WWII affects me: as a historical moment with profound impact on the world into which I was born.

Without the emotional impact of the "death of Camelot", I'm free to wonder in the opposite directions:

What would JFK have done that those who came after him could not do? Would he have been able to avoid the Vienam War? I suspect not. Would he have been able to get out earlier or somehow achieve victory? What would he have done differently?

If JFK hadn't died, would the civil rights gains of the mid 1960s and the technological achievements of the space program have been delayed or might they have even fizzled?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

She told me that Kennedy's death was the day the world began to die.

In a way, I think she was right.

That's about it. I was just in high school, in a geography class when our (male) teacher came in and told us the news. He was openly weeping. A lot of the teachers were crying. There was confusions for a while, then we were all dismissed for the day.

You have to understand what Kennedy represented. After the conservatism and conformity of the '50's, he was a breath of fresh air. He was young, brave, sexy, bright, and witty, and so were the people he brought into government. 1960 seemed like the beginning of a new age.

It was, and so was 1963 - the beginning of an age of chaos and conflict and lies and mistrust. After Kennedy was shot, assasination came to seem like a part of American politics - Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, George Wallace - all the way up to Ford and Reagan. American society began to fall apart, and we lost a special kind of faith in ourselves and an optimism we once had. We've never gained it back.

I wasn't that aware of it at the time, but in terms of national trauma and changing the character of society, the Kennedy assasination far surpassed 9/11. 9/11 was an attack by foreign enemies, and for those of us who followed international politics it wasn't entirely unexpected.. Kennedy's murder was home-grown and totally unexpected, a symptom of some strange American sickness. It was the end of our innocence about ourselves.

 

[wazhazhe]

There would have been a tradeoff.

Kennedy accomplished a lot of good things by dying.

…

I was born during the Truman administration and so remember President Kennedy, his administration and assassination well. I disagree with your assumption that anything positive was gained by his assassination.

President Kennedy sent the original version of the civil rights act to Congress in the summer of 1963. Had he not been assassinated, there is no reason to believe both Kennedy and Johnson would not have worked to see the bill passed. I’ve read that part of the reason the Civil Rights Bill of 1964 passed was that before his death, Kennedy had convinced some Republicans to support the bill.

Similarly, there is no reason to believe Kennedy wouldn’t have been able to accomplish any less with NASA than did Johnson. Also, Kennedy had expressed his desire to remove American military advisors in Vietnam after the 1964 elections. There is no reason to believe Kennedy would have been baited by the Gulf of Tonkin ‘Incident’.