Reluctance VS Non-Consent

[shannon_est]

For those of you who like to read the NC/R category, which do you prefer? And why? I'm especially interested in those who like the non-consent stories. I understand the reasons why non-consent is not as popular a genre, but I would like more feedback on both. I am writing a story which I'm leaning on doing as a NC story. I'm also leaning toward doing 2 versions of this story, with reluctance being in the second version, to see how the 2 stories fair in comparison. PMs are also welcome on this, long as it is semi-intelligent feedback on the questions I'm asking.

 

[alias x]

Hmm. It depends on the type of story. For stories that are more fantasy oriented, I tend to like or even prefer NC. To clarify, I define fantasy NC stories as stories where I can fantasize myself as being a character in the story that *is* willing (even if I cannot imagine being willing in real life). Such stories are rarely found on Literotica, but frequently show up on sites that discourage most forms of NC (e.g. Gromet or TTT).

And if you're going for an excessively hardcore story, you might want to reduce audience sympathy by making it a rape victim's revenge story.

And some stories just don't make sense as reluctance stories. I generally don't appreciate cop-out stories (i.e. non-consent story with a sentence at the end wherein victim says something along the lines of, "Wow honey, that was a great role-play session).

Oh, and I am very much against stories with the plot, "Guy rapes girl. Guy tells girl she loves it. Girl does not love it, and hates guy. Guy rapes girl some more. Guy tells girl she loves it some more. Girl does love it, and loves guy." While I acknowledge that a guy can force a girl to feel physical pleasure, the love thing doesn't work. A girl *might* convince herself she loves such a guy, but actual love just won't happen.

I acknowledge that real rape is different from erotic rape (real is about power, erotic is about sex) but even so, you can only go so far before it seems kind of stupid.

That being said, I much prefered the reluct endings to an NC ending in these stories:
http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=383 (I found this quite humorous)
and
http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=21679 (4 part, and I just like happy endings or something) .

Better yet, http://restrainedtastes.com/ttt/fiction/myownfic/mistress.htm (OK, this isn't really an NC or a reluct story per se, but I couldn't resist mentioning it for reasons that should be obvious. Besides, the author used the NC storycode in the description )


Well, hopefully this excessively long post gives you some idea about how I personally view NC/reluct in my readings. I'm afraid I can't answer your poll with anything better than an "it depends."

Explanation: If I'm not going to be able to put myself in the victims shoes and enjoy the story, I'll be watching the victim suffer and feel bad for him/her. If I can put myself in the victim's shoes and have fun, it's OK that that the real victim is NC. And If I can put myself in the victim's shoes and have more fun in the case of a reluctant victim, than I'll prefer reluctance.


Note: If you over-explain how scared the victim is, I probably won't enjoy the story as much...but you can get away with this for a reluctant victim.

 

[snooper]

... stories with the plot, "Guy rapes girl. Guy tells girl she loves it. Girl does not love it, and hates guy. Guy rapes girl some more. Guy tells girl she loves it some more. Girl does love it, and loves guy." While I acknowledge that a guy can force a girl to feel physical pleasure, the love thing doesn't work. A girl *might* convince herself she loves such a guy, but actual love just won't happen. ...

I beg to differ. Over time it will turn to love, or something indistinguishable from love. It is called Stockholm syndrome and probably the most famous case is Patti Hearst. For a technical explanation of this phenomenon see http://www.ecopsych.com/alertiqpref.html and for an emotive one see http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/guerrilla/ where you can participate!

 

[JamesSD]

For those of you who like to read the NC/R category, which do you prefer? And why? I'm especially interested in those who like the non-consent stories. I understand the reasons why non-consent is not as popular a genre, but I would like more feedback on both. I am writing a story which I'm leaning on doing as a NC story. I'm also leaning toward doing 2 versions of this story, with reluctance being in the second version, to see how the 2 stories fair in comparison. PMs are also welcome on this, long as it is semi-intelligent feedback on the questions I'm asking.

I'm curious how you definie non-consent and reluctance. On this site they are often one and the same, as stories of true rape, where there is violence involved and the victim doesn't enjoy it aren't really allowed.

There was a great thread somewhere on why women often have Non-consent fantasies. It's about power, surrender, being desirable, and overcoming inhibitions. It's romance dressed up as rape, if you will. The big thing is, even if she says no, she LIKES it. To me that makes it more reluctance than rape.

It's something I don't understand fully, but have learned a lot about thanks to reading this message board.

 

[Pyro Paul]

well i picked reluctant simply because i think thats hot. she doesnt wanna, think it might hurt, he shows her a good way and now she loves it.

besides, reluctant shows a lot of neivity and innocence.

non-consent i dont like at all, rape can be intresting, but in reality it is very wrong. and all the stories here have non-consent stories ending as some type of reluctant thing, she is like, oh wow, that was good! i <3 you!

besides i like the line:
i know i shouldnt, and i really dont want to, but....
more than:
I dont want to, get away, no stop.

 

[HornyHenry]

NC=rape?

That's what it sounds like to me.
Like the other guys here, rape doesn't sound appealing at all. There's nothing romatic or sensual or sexual about it.

Reluctance sounds better. Many women and girls are reluctant. They are taught to be, and must profess it to the guy, even if they WANT him to continue. And, when a girl finally gets it and loves it, does that make it not NC or reluctance anymore?

Please tell us why so many women seem to love the non consent theme? Is this a common fantasy? To be taken and controlled, and overpowered by their stud? How can you write a NC story and not have it be rape or consent?

I would like to read that thread again if anyone knows where it was. How To?
They cleaned all the good threads off of there long ago, I think.

 

[shadowvoid]

~

well, if NC is rape, i cant say, as a man, that i
have been drawn to this genre of erotica so very
much, though some have been rendered well and
with true sexuality being expressed/captured,
and i have enjoyed them, in this expression,

i do well appreciate the erotic fantasy aspect
that is such a turn on for women,
the quality of .... "being taken" .... which is a
primal carnal thing, ... i do like this quality ...

i like the expression of hunger, feeding,
though, i do realize that "rape" in real life is
more about power, than sexual gratification,

but then, ... power ... is usually a turn on,
or, can be a turn on, so there you have the
erotic element, ... (for the woman, or the
one being raped) ...

that is to say, if you perceive rape as an
expression of power,
(i will get back to this, in a moment)

i do tend to more like the reluctance genre,
when a girl "caves in" and is told what to do,
dominated, or rather, she submits,

but it is the *submitting* to another's will,
and the revealing of her own desire to do so,
**her own hunger**
this is what really turns me in, in this genre,
(and in any genre),

and it doesnt have to happen because of a "coersion",
or thru reluctant spirit ... it is the giving in ...
the giving, this is what really turns me on,
it is an unfortunate aspect of the morés of our
repressed society that this often requires people (women)
to feel like they are coerced/forced/raped, etc... to feel
like they can submit to another's will, ....

but, again, it is submitting, that turns me on,
**NOT** the need to manipulate,

but, then, the challenge is to render this
"submitting" in a genuine way, in a way
that captures your muse's attention,

in real life (i would suggest) this comes from a
true spirit, the touch of true passion, true hunger,
a true primal spirit,

in fantasy (erotica) writing, this is often
rendered in tales of R/NC .... but maybe
this is not always so necessary,

or not necessary at all,

the problem i have with the rape genre,
as an expression of "power", or, shall i say,
psuedo power, is that it is false, empty,

hmmm ...
i should mention here that i am a long time
practitioner of ancient martial warrior traditions ...

so, the concept of power, the image of power,
and how it is rendered/represented, has a particular
form and spirit, to me, (and how it is not, or rather,
how it is "falsely" rendered/represented, ... but then,
this is also profoundly true in real life,)

the idea of a man having to use "brute force"
to "exert his will" ... i find to be a sign of weakness,
profound weakness, not that i do not exert great
strength and passion when i take a lover, ... i do ...

but this is profoundly different than *imposing my will*,
or the need to overpower her's ...

i like my lover to be begging me .... in fact, i love that ...
and then, when i do express passion with great hunger
and strength ... it is received and returned, in kind ...

and so, whenever i read these "false expressions of power" in erotica,
ie, rape scenes, etc. .... well, it usually looses its potency for me ....

even the coercion, reluctance, genre, often takes a
bit of a leap for me, ... strategically speaking ...

because, well,
if one employs an advanced/adept understanding/mastery
of strategy, ... one is never coerced into anything ....

which leads to the genre that maybe i do most strive
for in my own writing ..... a primal thing ......

the expression of our true nature .........

http://mars.walagata.com/w/shadowavatar/shadow_greenlineonred.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/shadowavatar/shadow_gandalf.jpg

a beast on the hunt,
prowling, hungry,
an animal stalking its prey,
the smell of fear,
the scent of food,
the taste of blood,
carnal desire,
taking, seizing, striking,
feeding,
i roam the night, sometimes,
sometimes i feed,
sometimes i just roam,

— shadow —

http://mars.walagata.com/w/shadowavatar/shadow_gandalf.jpg

http://mars.walagata.com/w/shadowavatar/shadow_greenlineonred.jpg
​

 

[shannon_est]

Ok, I guess one of the questions I should've asked is what are the definitions of reluctance and non-consent, especially where this site is concerned and what the limits are. To me non-con is rape, lets face it... and call a spade a spade. I appreciate everyone's input. Keep it cumming! Whether or not I was writing this story, the opinions on this subject are really varied and I like to know the different points of view. Work's been exhausting the last couple of days, that's why I haven't checked back til now. Don't you just hate it when real life gets in the way? lol

 

[JRaven]

What if the guy wants to have sex with her and often tells her that? Then one day, she makes up an excuse to be in his apartment. She pulls a gun on him and tells him to strip.

[self indulgent plug]
Matt's Attitude Adjustment
[/self indulgent plug]

He's raped according to her whims, not his idea of how things should go. It's definitely about power. Just not the power he wanted.

Jenny

 

[shadowvoid]

~

hmmm, well, it's always a pleasure to feel a woman express
her desire, her power to dominate (over me) if you will,
to dominate and direct a situation,

though, it is not as if the man, Matt, in your story, did not want,
nor enjoy the experience, (i did enjoy your story, btw,)

but, yes, it is about dominance, an expression of power, i do agree,

but then, maybe, i would suggest, it distills into ....
.... what is a true expression of power?
.... and what is not?

your story does not depict a violant rape,
or the use of brutal force,

though there is certainly the element of role reversal,
the woman "taking/raping" a man,
using him as she pleases,

and there are many stories where a woman does do this,
violantly even, or simply thru her seduction, or blackmail,
some sort of demonstration or expression of power,
be it simply her beauty, even,

for her to ... take charge ...

either way, be it the male or the female,

one taking control of the other,
willingly, or unwillingly,

but then, let us not forget, the third,
where both are equals in the passions of love,

this, i believe, is where i strive to be ... after ... the exchange
of power and pleasure and hunger and feeding ..... (or before) .....

the nc/r genre can be most exquisitely erotic, i believe, because it
allows one to explore one desire to be dominated,

but not just in the "BDSM" scene spirit,

but, a true spirit of real life domance, (which may or may
not have a BDSM flair or flavor or style,) .....

but harkens to how some have been abused in the childhood,

these stories of nc/r touch upon ghosts within the childhood of some,
or with the adulthood even,

aspects of one's life where sexuality was aroused,

or, some scenario that made it "okay" to take pleasure,
because someone else was making you do the lude
erotic actions,

hmmm ....

i do love that element, of the lude and erotic,

shadow,


ps,
shannon, i enjoyed quite thoroughly,
.... Sissy's Little Secret ....
not nc/r, but still, quite erotic,

 

[alrem]

For me it depends on how the story was writen but I'm more in to non concent or forced sexual encounter. Actually this is the type of stories I'm looking for when I started to read stories at literotica.

I found it very arousing when sex and violence were mixed up in the story. After all, its just a story. But I'm not interested in inflicting pain to the victim. Instead doing moral damage or degredation, how the victim's life would change after the rape.

I dont know if this is a fetish of me but that really hit the spot. .

 

[HornyHenry]

Here's a prime example

of a story that is reluctance and NC both. But it is so well done (other than spelling and grammar) that it draws you in and keeps you on the edge of your seat, waiting to see what happens next to her.
I found this on the "Student with teacher" thread in this forum. Thanks for the link. Please read this to see how an NC/Rel story can be done well.
"What I Wrote"
http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=176472

 

[alias x]

I beg to differ. Over time it will turn to love, or something indistinguishable from love. It is called Stockholm syndrome and probably the most famous case is Patti Hearst. For a technical explanation of this phenomenon see http://www.ecopsych.com/alertiqpref.html and for an emotive one see http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/guerrilla/ where you can participate!

Yes, I've seen the syndrome mentioned on TV before. I forgot about that. But even recognizing it's existence, it seems a lame plot device. And even recognizing it's existence, I cannot find it believeable within a story...unless the captor is kind enough that perhaps such love is warranted (tough to pull off properly). As Adam Savage would say, "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

 

[snooper]

... I cannot find it believeable within a story ...

I agree for most Lit stories, where the action takes place over a few hours, or at most one night. It takes time, and dependency (for food, company, washing, etc.) before Stockholm kicks in.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Non-consent is a big button pusher for me- fantasy wise. BUt for me, the victim has to admit that he or she wants to give up control, early on, After that. it's all good. And part of what makes that sexy to me is forcing the person to admit their desires....
A fantasy setting helps for me, too. Wives and salesclerks and snotty business associates mostly bore me. Take the victim to another place so s/he can function IRL afterwards.

The other thing that makes it work is, gaddammit, the QUALITY of the writing. I was just browsing over there and there's so much crap!

 

[shadowvoid]

Non-consent is a big button pusher for me- fantasy wise. BUt for me, the victim has to admit that he or she wants to give up control, early on, After that. it's all good. And part of what makes that sexy to me is forcing the person to admit their desires....
A fantasy setting helps for me, too. Wives and salesclerks and snotty business associates mostly bore me. Take the victim to another place so s/he can function IRL afterwards.

The other thing that makes it work is, gaddammit, the QUALITY of the writing. I was just browsing over there and there's so much crap!

very well put, Stella_Omega,

you know, i was contemplating saying something
very much akin to this, because, although i do
admittedly shy away from most NC/rape stuff,
(due to the abusive element, which usually does
not resonate with my spirit), ...
.... there has admittedly been some NC that i
have found extremely erotic ... and your
comment really captures that most succinctly,

i have to see/feel/know that she actually really
does want it ... that she enjoys it ....
most especially if she is made to admit it ...
or in some way, demonstrates that she really enjoys it ....
and then, (as you also make mention), the quality of
the writing must be very good, such that, it does convey
a genuine expression of sexuality, desire and pleasure,

shadow,

 

[Typo Fu Master]

I've already given some input on this, but I thought I'd chime in.

Non consent is just that: Rape. Stories which say they are NC and then have the girl start enjoying it are, in my opinion, classified wrong. They should be called Reluctance.

I believe the majority of the readers on this site are looking for Reluctance type stories. I'm not one of them. When I read that category, I'm expecting to see someone victimized. I guess I'm going out on a limb stating this, and there are most likely other people who feel the same way, but are afraid to say anything, because, let's face it, to say you enjoy reading about rape is suggesting you're a sick individual, and everyone will look down on you for it. As long as it's plainly understood that this is FANTASY I don't see why there's a problem with this kind of story.

I have read a few stories in Erotic Horror which graphically depict women being ripped apart, and in some cases, eaten. If this type of material is ok, then why not an actual rape? And the raper doesn't have to get away with it. S/he can commit the act and get busted afterward. As long as the story itself is interesting, and doesn't ask me to suspend too much disbelief unless there's a plausible reason why things happened the way they did.

 

[Rattlesnake1775]

One or the other

I agree with the general trend that there is a huge difference between reluctance and NC. Personally, 'true' NC, that being rape, does not do anything for me. There is a very close link between sexuality and violence, but sexual assault crosses the line to me, and does nothing for me. There are stories that manage to very tastefully cover this ground, but is rare, and needs to be handled very delicately. For example, there are stories where a man intends to force sex upon a woman who really wants to have sex with him, in which even it is neither reluctance nor NC, as the "victim" is a willing participant. But they are often categorized that way, which leads me into my theory on much stricter labeling control, but that is a whole seperate topic...

In many stories, the person that is victimized is painted in an unflattering, often downright hostile light. I believe this is often done to make that person less sympathetic to the reader. To me that is like a form of "pre-victim-blaming", which only makes it worse. Nobody deserves to be raped, and creating that vision in a story is repulsive to me (did I already say that?). There are often power dynamics in play here (boss, cop, husband's boss, debt collector, etc), which only makes the story more unsavory (to me, anyways).

A reluctant partner is an attractive partner. Who do you want more, the one that makes you work for it, or the one that throws it at you? Personally, I like the chase, and reluctance introduces the chase with more obstacles.

Now, to me personally, there is nothing wrong with writing about/reading about/enjoying either of those two in relation to NC. The rape fantasy is a prevalent one, and putting thought to paper/screen is a harmless act to me. Most women I have been with have had a rape fantasy, and have had various degrees of comfort with it. I personally have no fantasies of raping anybody, even though I enjoy being "rough" with my wife from time to time.

In the end, authors will/should write what they know and are comfortable with. If you are comfortable writing NC, then I think people should. Similiarly, I guess there are people out there that are comfortable writing incest. I can't really understand that either, but it adds to the overall body of literature on literotica. I can and do write reluctance, but I stay away from NC. But I have read a couple of good ones, so I can't say anybody should not.

Reluctance and NC are two very different things. Some people think BDSM is sick. Some can't live without it. Some people think that reading incest stories will put you right next to child molesters in hell. To each their own.

Wife wanted that in there...

Anyways, if you enjoy a story, it has done it's job. Even if it is about dog shit. So I think that it is a matter of personal preference, and there is no real answer to the question. I enjoy very well written NC as much as reluctance, which I like better.

 

[alrem]

I've already given some input on this, but I thought I'd chime in.

Non consent is just that: Rape. Stories which say they are NC and then have the girl start enjoying it are, in my opinion, classified wrong. They should be called Reluctance.

I believe the majority of the readers on this site are looking for Reluctance type stories. I'm not one of them. When I read that category, I'm expecting to see someone victimized. I guess I'm going out on a limb stating this, and there are most likely other people who feel the same way, but are afraid to say anything, because, let's face it, to say you enjoy reading about rape is suggesting you're a sick individual, and everyone will look down on you for it. As long as it's plainly understood that this is FANTASY I don't see why there's a problem with this kind of story.

I have read a few stories in Erotic Horror which graphically depict women being ripped apart, and in some cases, eaten. If this type of material is ok, then why not an actual rape? And the raper doesn't have to get away with it. S/he can commit the act and get busted afterward. As long as the story itself is interesting, and doesn't ask me to suspend too much disbelief unless there's a plausible reason why things happened the way they did.

I certainly share the opinion with you . I really enjoy "true non concent" stories. But it doesn't mean that I want to rape anybody in real life. Everyone should be wise enough to know the differences between "fantasy" and "reality".

I rarely find real NC here at lit and that's the disapointing part.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I'm curious how you definie non-consent and reluctance. On this site they are often one and the same, as stories of true rape, where there is violence involved and the victim doesn't enjoy it aren't really allowed.

That's not really true. Those stories are allowed here. I've read quite a few.

Also- there doesn't have to be violence for it to be 'true rape'

AND the most traumatic rape in real life would be one in which the victim *did* enjoy it (ie- experience physical pleasure) which wouldn't make it not rape.

the use of violence, and absence of physical pleasure are *not* what define rape. Either in the real world or elsewhere.

Reluctance is when the person is convinced. They don't want to; but they give in before penetration; not after. They are seduced rather than coerced.

I don't think they are the same breed, and am not fond of them being lumped together on lit.

I prefer non-consent. even if it's rollplay, even if it's not.

reluctance is for people who want to be ravished. it's just not the same...

Although I prefer real non-consent; I don't really like to call them rape stories however; at least not all of them. Although in real life non-consent is by definition rape; I don't think a nonconsent fantasy is the same as a rape fantasy.

 

[sweetnpetite]

forced sexual encounter.

yes. that's the kind of *story* I like too. and I like the sound of that phrase.

check out my sigline, btw.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I have read a few stories in Erotic Horror which graphically depict women being ripped apart, and in some cases, eaten. If this type of material is ok, then why not an actual rape? And the raper doesn't have to get away with it. S/he can commit the act and get busted afterward. As long as the story itself is interesting, and doesn't ask me to suspend too much disbelief unless there's a plausible reason why things happened the way they did.

Because you walk a fine line when you try to write an erotic story about rape. YOU CANT. You can only write an erotic story about a rape fantasy. It can be gritty, hardcore and many other things. But if you want to make it a truly 'real' story about rape, then you are writing about repercusions and things that are just not erotic. Like I said, it's a very fine line. Even for those of us who love the NC category.

 

[Typo Fu Master]

Because you walk a fine line when you try to write an erotic story about rape. YOU CANT. You can only write an erotic story about a rape fantasy. It can be gritty, hardcore and many other things. But if you want to make it a truly 'real' story about rape, then you are writing about repercusions and things that are just not erotic. Like I said, it's a very fine line. Even for those of us who love the NC category.

It sounds like what I'm looking for would be better classified as Erotic Horror then. I saw one story that came close: something about a girl who heard that her boyfriend was into bondage, and decided to surprise him by setting herself up in bondage gear that she was then unable to escape from once it was in place, but accidentally chose a dorm room of a guy who just happened to have the same name as her BF. He and his buddies had a good ol' time with her, but the author had her start to enjoy the situation at the end. I guess that's a rape fantasy, but if it had been me, she might have felt pleasure from some of the things done to her, but she would not have enjoyed the predicament at all. The story ended with her being untied and leaving the room in shame. I'm not looking to read about psychological trauma or anything, I just like a little realism in my fantasies. Like that makes any sense.

 

[BlackSnake]

I like the reluctant, because of the element of seduction and the inter-personal fighting.

I like the non-concent, because one character is allow to enjoy the spoils of war.

 

[Rattlesnake1775]

Humiliation

This keeps coming up, and maybe that is why I have such a hard time with some of the stories...unless it is very well done (I keep saying that...) I have a very hard time with one of the people in the story being humiliated. That just turns me off, not really sure why. I agree with petite that it is impossible to write "rape," which is a ugly, ugly event into an erotic context. The shame, guilt, anger, pain, loss, and suffering that the victim goes through are anything but erotic. But "forced sexual encounter" sounds better, and if you can seperate the two in your mind, it might be easier.

This idea of "doing it, and doing it, and doing it wild...and he/she started to enjoy it..." tends to be a bridge to far for me. I just cannot wrap my mind around how you would start to enjoy something you were resisting and fighting against a minute ago.

We have talked off the Stockholm syndrome earlier, but that is not in effect here. That takes a serious amount of time, and there must be a feeling of care, a sense that the victimizer is doing something for the victim. You don't get that in four minutes of wham-bam. I agree that reluctance is somebody who in the end agrees to the sexual encounter, and to me petite's sig line is that (not sure if it was meant that way, haven't read the attached story yet).

So that's my less then two cents...ophelia is bearing down on us and my light just went out. Wish me luck!