Religion and Homosexuality

[Misty_Morning]

A recent thread got me to thinking.

I was raised with the mindset that homosexuality is an abmonition in the eyes of religion.

It was the main reason I never confronted my true self.

As I grew into an adult I was always taught that it was wrong.....that I was wrong.

I married and lived a lie.

After my marriage ended I explored the other possibilities.

Long story short.....I accepted that I am lesbian.

But I was always taught that being homosexual was an abomination unto God.


Is it? Really?

I guess the greatest loss in my life is the loss of my faith. And I often weep because of this. Not really cuz I lost faith but because I felt abondoned by my faith. Does that make sense?

So I was just wondering....


How many of you folks out there are reluctant to persue who you really are because it might mean that your religion might turn it's back on you?

 

[fran59]

Religion

Religion probably does more to give God a bad name than anything else in the world. Believe above all else, that God loves you. If we treat with love all those whom God puts in our path on a day to day basis, we should not have to worry about being gay or straight. Forget the middle-man (Minsters and Priests) and go directly to the source. With these few things, all is possible. Hope you will have a good life.

 

[emap]

Well the problem does not lay in the actual teachings of Christianity in most of it's forms. The problem lays in the priests and higher who decree that enjoying yourself sexually is a big old no no.

If you actually look at the teachings they are espousing so often, there is no particular mention of homosexuals being wrong. There is mention of not laying with someone besides your husband, and oddly enough, not laying with a fellow woman, though no mention of men enjoying sex with men.

When you think about that, it is hilarious because homosexual women are generally not looked down on that much, while homosexual men are hounded and killed. All in the name of god and his teachings, when the very book they are espousing says women can't lay with women but men can do whatever the hell they want.

Beleive in god if want to, call yourself a christian if you really want, just ignore the priests and live your life the way you want to. The Bible is not full of laws, it is full of guidelines to be a better person hidden in the be a better christian talk.

Live with do unto others as you would have others do unto you and you are a better christian than roughly 90%.

 

[stlpenguin]

Wicca makes no such bold statements about who you can or cannot love.

Just sayin'.

 

[human_male]

Personally I'd worry about what god thinks, not what religion thinks. They're not the same thing.

 

[CelestialNight]

I know I'm going to sound like a religious nut job here, but I'm a Christian and I'm fine with the fact that I'm a lesbian. The people of my religion might turn their backs on me, but my God wont. I do believe it's a sin, but it's a sin that's already been forgiven. Of course some people are never going to accept that, but that's okay with me.

 

[Nimbikarana]

Wicca makes no such bold statements about who you can or cannot love.

Just sayin'.

merry meet

 

[Natalie Nessus]

The Bible is not full of laws, it is full of guidelines to be a better person hidden in the be a better christian talk.

It is a good story, nothing more.

 

[Nimbikarana]

It is a good story, nothing more.

i didn't find it all that exciting myself

 

[Equinoxe]

If you actually look at the teachings they are espousing so often, there is no particular mention of homosexuals being wrong. There is mention of not laying with someone besides your husband, and oddly enough, not laying with a fellow woman, though no mention of men enjoying sex with men.

You have that backwards. The Bible condemns sex between men - incuding specifying that it be punishable by death - more than once (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, for instance), but the Bible doesn't actually contain a commandment explicitly forbidding sex between women. In any case, regarding Christianity, Paul's Epistle to the Romans regards same-sex relations very negatively, for both men and women (Romans 1:26-32).

 

[Tymeless]

my faith has never waivered despite my transgenderism if anything its gotten stronger. my faith has never waivered despite the fact that all scientifc proof points against it. Even though I am a scientist by nature and usually believe in cold hard facts, but science can't dispprove everything especially the notion of god.

I believe in god I have my own faith in god that i've created through my own choices and interpretations of what i've read. Thats what the bible is about not about this organized religion stuff that places judgement on people and takes from the people. Oh well.

 

[Tymeless]

Another thought. The reason Homosexuality was viewed wrong by religion was simple the fact that the union of man and man or woman and woman meant there could be no procreation. With todays technology that is no longer a fact so the views will change slowly but surely. The sex can't result in a baby but there are other ways to create life now.

Also another fact to remember is that non of us choose to be glbt we just choose not to deny who we are anymore after usually years of struggling to cope with it. We cannot help who we are attracted to and we definitely can't help who we love. Just remembe that.

 

[rawkchik]

As a child I used to attend Church quite regularly (As part of Brownies, or as I'm assuming American's would call it - girl scouts) and it was all going rather well. I believed in God, he loved me, yadda yadda yadda. It's around the time what we were being taught in Science was contradicting what we were being told in assemblies (Also went to a Christian school), that I began to obviously question things. It's from that point on when I essentially strayed from the flock. You know religion isn't for you when you're 11 and a Priest can't give you a straight answer regarding where in the bible it says homosexuality is wrong.

So now I don't really believe in a God, but if I did, it sure wouldn't be the one portrayed in a book written by men.

 

[tigervixen]

I personally find it hard to reconcile a loving, all-forgiving God with a harsh, judgmental one. That's the main problem I have with Christianity as a whole. Well, not Christianity, but mainly the people who run it.

http://wouldjesusdiscriminate.com (If you can't post off-site links, I'm sorry, but I think because it's not pay/it's on-topic, it's okay? If not, I'll edit and remove it.)

A Pro-gay Christian website. It asks and answers the exact questions I've been having about Christianity and the same-sex relationships issue. I've found 95% of Christians I know personally have issues with same-sex relationships based on biblical arguments.

This gives biblical examples, going back to the ancient Greek and Hebrew translations of different words to describe just exactly how Jesus and the early church stood on homosexuality.

Quick edit to say that I'm not exactly Christian, and even if I were to go in that direction, I do not discriminate against any other religions. Wicca also interests me, and has a lot to offer. I think spirituality, for me, is a personal thing and it is personal for others as well. To each their own has always been my philosophy.

I'm going to do more research on ancient Greek as it relates to the Bible, especially concerning this because it does affect me. I can't explain how happy this makes me. Because I've known for years, in my heart, that Jesus could not and would not exclude people based on who they choose to love. I say known, because I've never understood how people could take a belief that started with "For God so loved the world," and turn it into "...except gay people."

 

[Wolfman1982]

Live with do unto others as you would have others do unto you and you are a better christian than roughly 90%.

that is the golden karma rule, from Buddhism. No wonder why Buddhists reads the sayings of JC.

You have that backwards. The Bible condemns sex between men - incuding specifying that it be punishable by death - more than once (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, for instance), but the Bible doesn't actually contain a commandment explicitly forbidding sex between women. In any case, regarding Christianity, Paul's Epistle to the Romans regards same-sex relations very negatively, for both men and women (Romans 1:26-32).

I really don´t care about Paulus aka. Saulus which is his real name . Frankly he could kiss my ass, he is dead and long gone in my mind, and that is one less male chauvinist pig, and homophobe to worry about. Take JCs sayings instead .

 

[CNYCarol]

Religion is man trying to talk to GOD (stupidly).

The "Word of GOD" is GOD talking to man!

 

[Tymeless]

another thing to remember about the christian religion is things like this. The bible was written and or edited by rich and powerful men. All seeking to retain their power. A powerful man in the church is the one that decided to paint Mary Magdaline as a prostitute when historical evidence says otherwise. He chose to do it because he thought women had to much power in the church and wanted them gone.

Another example of how corrupt the christian religion was at times is the red sea scrolls. They were excluded from the bible that we read today because some priests decided they weren't important enough for the message they wanted to send to the religion. My guess is more like this they didn't fit into what the priest wanted to keep their power.

Faith is a very powerful thing and the bible is important but just like anything you read you have to take meaning from it for yourself and do your own research to create your beliefs. Don't let some guy in black tell you what your supposed to believe. He doesn't have anymore enlightenment then you. He is just a minion of a corrupt organization in a lot of ways.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Tymeless: Mariamne was one of JCs closest people, and well I saw some months ago the documentary about the tomb of JC and all that. So I know where you are heading, but even before that. I knew Mariamne was not a prostitute, infact she was an apostle/disciple. , but that was excluded by the big and powerful men. And I know a lot of those kind of stuff. The red sea scrolls were not from the new testament, but it is the oldest written version we have of The old testament. And new revisions of that testament in "our" bible is getting the info from those scrolls.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

my thoughts...
I think the bible is pretty clear on the stance of homosexuality.
HOWEVER, the level to which this has been raised is nuts.
It gets mentioned a couple of times (as noted above) and pales compared to how often things like 'love one another' get brought up...

That said...

I'm a die-hard, born again atheist and think that faith has been given way too high a position in our country.
Especially when its been turned into a device of hate and fear.

 

[alaskabibear]

Misty_Morning, such a brave and honest question.

I am also a Christian. However, we are Eastern Orthodox (formerly Protestant). I would like to try and offer you some meaningful insight intended to bring hope into your heart. (forgive the lengthy response, but a serious question deserves a serious answer.)

First, regarding "sin". The word for sin in the Greek derives from an archery term meaning to "fall short of the target". As it is used in the New Testament, it implies "falling short of the glory and goodness of God". And I think we might all agree - that includes every human being.

If you take a little closer look at the passages that speak to "sexual immorality" and try to see the whole you will see something amazing. For example, look at Ephesians 5:3 - "...there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed...nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or course joking...". Now for some reason the modern American brand of Christianity focuses in on the "sexual immorality" topic like flies on stink. But, how often do you hear a televangelist condemn "greed", or "gossip", or "foolish talk"? And how many of us could say we have never "sinned" in these ways? Further, is there anyone of sound mind who would defend "greed" or "slander"- are these not hurtful and harmful human traits?
The point being, one is placed in the same list with the other and all of these exemplify a "falling short of the glory and goodness of God". In other words, homosexuality is no better or worse than greed (or any of the other "falling shorts").

Second, Christianity is a set of beliefs (a religion) established by men. The early Church Fathers were not rich and powerful men of influence (that actually came quite some time later - in fact the early believers lost virtually everything for their beliefs. This fact alone should be enough to cause everyone to at least investigate why they were willing to do that.). They were simply followers of the oral traditions and the early written "memoirs" of the Apostles of Jesus. Over the course of the first couple of centuries AD there was a need to determine which of the many, many writings were deemed to be authentic writings of the Apostles. Over time, those which were found to be "used and believed by all peoples everywhere" found their way into the canon of scriptures that eventually became our Bible. Throughout most of the Church's history, the written "memoirs" were used along side of the oral traditions of the Fathers. In the Eastern Orthodox Churches this is still the case. Why is this important? Simply this; our religion, as are all religions, are established by men seeking truth about God. Does this make them somehow of no value? Not at all. For how would God be able to communicate to humans except in our our language? (In fact, that is what Jesus is all about is it not?) So, instead of casting aside the combined wisdom of those who went before - yes, even those who were contemporaries of Jesus himself - take a look for yourself into the earliest writings of the Christian faith. I think you will find that it is a faith that acknowledges that humanity is in fact "far, far short of the glory and goodness of God", and having acknowledged that it is also a faith that points to the love and forgiveness of God for all humans. But the argument that Christianity is somehow false just because it is a "religion" or that it was established by "men" is quite foolish (IMHO). Actually, the Bible says just the opposite; "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God'. ".

As to your question about our own personal feelings of sin; I think the gravest "sin" you could ever commit is the abandonment of you belief in God. Try to not let your conscience become so hardened that you refuse to acknowledge that you do fall "short of the glory and goodness of God". When this hardness of conscience creeps in, it forces us to close ourself off from even the hope and belief in God. Instead, I would offer that you should investigate for yourself the early Christian origins. I believe that you will find that the modern American flavor of Christianity is in many ways not even Christianity at all. Traditional Christianity is all about redemption and forgiveness with the hope of union with God. And it is that union that humans crave in their inner heart. So I will leave it on that ultimate hope of union with God; Jesus prayed "...I pray also for those who will believe in me though their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us..." John 17:20-21

PS. Should you have an interest or desire to discuss this further, please feel free to PM us.

 

[Atarax]

“ One religion: Homosectuality ” (Graffiti seen on the streets of Montreal about a decade ago)

 

[emap]

Apparently it was recited to me wrong. I remember it being a woman shall not lay with a woman.

In any case, Atarax your picture there is making me thirsty.

 

[sinfulallure]

http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/sodom.html

 

[Mazinger]

Is that the Bible I know????

another thing to remember about the christian religion is things like this. The bible was written and or edited by rich and powerful men.

I think you have been watching too much of the Davinci Code.

It is true that some of the bible writers were rich and powerful (David, Moses, Nehemiah, for example), but others were poor and not so powerful (Micah, Amos, Peter, Luke (who had been a slave doctor).

So It is not good to jump into conclusion so fast.

Regarding the edition, well, way before Nicea in 325, the majority of the church accepted as we know as the Bible. The rich and powerful merely assented to this.

All seeking to retain their power.

Well, the other side was also trying to take over. Why attack only one side?

A powerful man in the church is the one that decided to paint Mary Magdaline as a prostitute when historical evidence says otherwise.

Again, you are wrong in your assumptions. Mary Magdaline was not considered a prostitute because of some painter, but because of Pope Gregory in the 6th century. Please, get your facts right.

But I agree with you that it is wrong to portray her as a prostitute, just because this became part of the church's folklore.

He chose to do it because he thought women had to much power in the church and wanted them gone.

Well, NO. He did it because the women from Magdala, where Mary came from, had a bad reputation, until his day.

You are giving your judgment from a 21st century view, and not from a 6th view.

Another example of how corrupt the christian religion was at times is the red sea scrolls. They were excluded from the bible that we read today because some priests decided they weren't important enough for the message they wanted to send to the religion. My guess is more like this they didn't fit into what the priest wanted to keep their power.

Again, you don't seem to know biblical history.

The Dead Sea Scrolls were held by the Essenes, a Jewish Sect, that if you have read them, are more condemming against woman than Christianity itself. So your criticism, it's funny at best, and lacking of knowledge of the scrolls or of the practices of the Essenes. An example of their views is that they rejected marriage or any sexual activity, since they saw it as impure.

No wonder they didn't survive beyond the 1st century.

So no corruption there, and no need to include them in the Canon, since most of their beliefs didn't come to pass anyway.

Faith is a very powerful thing and the bible is important but just like anything you read you have to take meaning from it for yourself and do your own research to create your beliefs.

I am sorry, but what I see is that you haven't read enough, or at all in order to create your own beliefs.

And one thing about ancient texts, and this is an academic discipline, is that you must read ancient texts according to their context, and as to how the author meant them to be understood. Just imagine you writing a letter, and someone coming to a conclusion that you had never intended for it!!! Same with the Bible, or the US Constitution.

Don't let some guy in black tell you what your supposed to believe. He doesn't have anymore enlightenment then you. He is just a minion of a corrupt organization in a lot of ways.

Well, as Mel Gibbson rightly said in "Patriot", why give up a minion 3 thousand miles away when 10,000 minions appear around us.

Or we our selves can become minions of misinformation??

Hope you hear my words.

Maz.

 

[Mazinger]

Well Said.

he red sea scrolls were not from the new testament, but it is the oldest written version we have of The old testament. And new revisions of that testament in "our" bible is getting the info from those scrolls.

Yes.

Although I would be careful calling Mary Magadline a disciple as in the same sphere of Peter, for example.

The New Testamente uses the word freely, and must not attached meaning where it is not meant at all.