Rejected: Alien Sex v. Bestiality

[SimonDoom]

I've always prided myself on never having had a story rejected for any reason. I try to familiarize myself with the submission rules and follow them carefully.

Well, my perfect streak is over. I had a story rejected for, of all things, bestiality (no, EB -- not because of penguins).

The title is "Penis Fish." It's about human encounters with an alien life form that at first seems to resemble a real-life species of worm (Urechis caupo) that is nick-named the Penis Fish because it resembles a male phallus. It was inspired by MelissaBaby's recent thread on a recent event in which a beach in California was covered by them after a storm.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1514520

I make it very clear in my story that the thing in is not an actual earth-based worm, but an alien from another planet that only superficially resembles the earth organism. It has intelligence and mind control powers, it has anatomical features that are different from those of the earth creature, including features revealed in a dissection, and, later, features revealed just before sex happens. And I specifically say, in the story, that it is not from earth, although that reveal doesn't come until near the end. By the time the sex encounters happens, I think it's pretty clear to the reader that it's basically an intelligent alien dildo.

The rejection checklist very clearly says that stories about sexual encounters with "aliens" are permitted. It would seem to me my story falls under this, and that it's no different in principle from a story about tentacle sex with octopus-like creatures on another planet (I got away with one of those) or sex with a mythical creature that has dog-like features, like a werewolf.

I wonder if it would make a difference if I used a different word to describe the thing. I use the term "Penis Fish" to describe it throughout the story, even though it isn't one. I do so because it's just a really weird name and the use of the term gives the story a somewhat absurd quality that is part of the tone and effect I wanted. If I could get the story submitted by changing the name, I'm not sure if I'd be willing to do that. It doesn't seem to me that the name of the thing should make a difference.

I'm perfectly content to abide by Laurel's rules, whatever they are. I'm curious if anyone else has had similar issues or confusion regarding the application of this rule, or has any thoughts on the matter.

I've sent a PM to Laurel to inquire further and to try to state my case, and I'm awaiting her response.

 

[Jada59]

Wow! Sorry!

 

[Blind_Justice]

If all else fails, post it on StoriesOnline.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Oh no!

I suppose I can see the concern though. What's to stop someone who had a thing for, let's say, panda bears, writing a story about a person having sex with a panda, and trying to slip it through by a "pandas are really aliens" loophole?

By the way, I got rejected my first time out. Welcome to the club.

 

[UsuallyPresent]

I wonder if the "Birds/Giraffes are Fake" themes elsewhere on the web might be exploited for something like Melissa's panda comments.

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

The rejection checklist very clearly says that stories about sexual encounters with "aliens" are permitted. It would seem to me my story falls under this, and that it's no different in principle from a story about tentacle sex with octopus-like creatures on another planet (I got away with one of those) or sex with a mythical creature that has dog-like features, like a werewolf.

When you say they are intelligent, are they capable of speech? I've heard that's a very common line Laurel draws when deciding between bestiality and a non-human creature that is allowed. If it's able to comprehend a language (not necessarily one humans speak, mind you), that would indicate they're on about human-level intelligence. They don't need to talk to humans, but perhaps it's possible to include a bit where someone observes them communicating (either verbally or mentally) on a level that resembles speech in an unknown language.

I'm not sure if this is stretching that line or not, as the general point I've seen brought up a few times is to be safe, they should be able to speak or otherwise communicate, and be able to be heard by more than one human (to make sure it's not just in their head and they're imagining a creature to be talking to them).

Not sure if this is of any use, just recalling things I've seen on the forum a few times in the past few years when discussions about bestiality came up.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Well, it is entirely possible that your story got blocked by an algorithm. (Seriously, I cannot see one human woman being able to read the dozens - hundreds? - of stories submitted each day, 365 days a year. A computer scan system to weed out paedophilia, snuff, execrable grammar, etc is entirely plausible.) Based on what you have said, I'd consider resubmitting unchanged with a note in the admin box pointing out that the critter is not an animal, but rather an alien. Give some evidence, (eg. "Page 5, para 12, the creature holds an intelligent conversation with the cop.")

(Backstory. My story A Clutch of Mermaids was about two perfectly human girls wearing mermaid costumes at a resort. I submitted it under Erotic Couplings but when it hit Pending it was shown as being in Sci-Fi and Fantasy. I resubmitted with an admin note pointing out that the women in question were not real mermaids, just women wearing costumes. It got sorted out and ran in EC. My point with this is that there was no possible way a human reader even just skimming the story in the most perfunctory way could have mistaken my heroines for real mermaids; the change had to have been caused by a computer programme which (perhaps oversimplifying) automatically flipped anything with the word 'mermaid' into SF&F.)

I'd resubmit.

 

[NotWise]

I've always prided myself on never having had a story rejected for any reason. I try to familiarize myself with the submission rules and follow them carefully.

Well, my perfect streak is over. I had a story rejected for, of all things, bestiality (no, EB -- not because of penguins).

I lost my rejection virginity back in September when Laurel sent "Breaking With Tradition" back to me, asking "Was there an underage relationship?" She didn't ask about underage sex, and that confused me.

I resubmitted without a change. I explained that the main characters were 20 and 24 at the time of the story, quoted the part I thought was probably most problematic, and explained that there was otherwise no sexual relationship before the story. She accepted it without further comment.

Perhaps you could try resubmitting with an explanation. After all, if she's skimming the story for problems and you don't explain until near the end that the penis fish is an alien, then she might miss it.

Otherwise you could put that explanation up front, either with a disclaimer or by doing the reveal much earlier.

 

[Voboy]

I guess now we know: a penisfish is, well, a fish.

Resubmit, call it a Glorfnarb from the planet Orzon-IV, and bob's your uncle.

I'm not sure I'd say I've gotten rejected, but I did once have a few stories kicked back after a killjoy complained about them. They'd all been up for several months at the time.

 

[SimonDoom]

Thanks for the replies. She replied to my PM and told me to resubmit with a justification in my Notes. So I resubmitted it, as is, with a brief explanation/argument in my Note section.

I discovered a significant and annoying feature of the Notes section of the submission form, however: it has a severe character limitation. So I had to truncate the more complete argument I was able to make in my PM to her. I hope it will be enough.

Re MelissaBaby's and UP's point: This occurred to me as I wrote the story. There are ways one might use the "alien" theme to skirt the bestiality rule in questionable ways. If a race of "alien" dogs came to earth, and they looked and acted like Golden Retrievers in every respect, would they fall outside the scope of the rule? I don't think so. To me the reasonable way to approach this issue is to look at it from the perspective of the Perverted Reader. Is a Perverted Reader going to get the same kind of twisted (I used "twisted" in the nonjudgmental sense) enjoyment reading your story about alien Golden Retrievers as he would reading one about real Golden Retrievers. Answer: probably. The mere fact you've described them as aliens doesn't change the nature of the erotic appeal of the story.

Nor, I think, does making your alien animal talk do enough. A talking dog is a mythical, nonexistent creature. But if you submitted a story about sex with talking dogs, I think it would be rejected. In my story, the thing doesn't talk. It's ridiculous enough without that. Perhaps it could communicate to my protagonist by singing operatic arias.

I thought my story avoided these problems, because I took enough care to describe the organism as being different from the worm on earth that it was not the same thing. The protagonist is a marine biologist who performs a dissection, and at the end of the dissection she says to herself: "It wasn’t an Innkeeper worm, or any kind of worm she’d ever seen. This was something utterly different."

As I said before, it's basically a dildo with a brain. Up close, it doesn't look or act like a real earth organism.

Does anyone remember the novelty song from King Missile in 1992 --Detachable Penis?

My story kind of reminds me of that. Maybe I should rename it that.

We'll see what Laurel has to say. I'll let you know.

 

[SimonDoom]

(Backstory. My story A Clutch of Mermaids was about two perfectly human girls wearing mermaid costumes at a resort. I submitted it under Erotic Couplings but when it hit Pending it was shown as being in Sci-Fi and Fantasy. I resubmitted with an admin note pointing out that the women in question were not real mermaids, just women wearing costumes. It got sorted out and ran in EC. My point with this is that there was no possible way a human reader even just skimming the story in the most perfunctory way could have mistaken my heroines for real mermaids; the change had to have been caused by a computer programme which (perhaps oversimplifying) automatically flipped anything with the word 'mermaid' into SF&F.)

I'd resubmit.

Mermaid sex is fine here, though, isn't it? A mermaid is a mythical creature, and sex with mythical creatures is fine. EB wrote a story about mermaid sex, and I don't think he had a problem getting it through.

It is entirely possible that a human reader who simply scanned the title and the first few paragraphs of my Penis Fish story might be confused into thinking I was writing about the real thing. So that might be what happened.

FYI, here's the rule, as stated in my rejection notice:

"Is there bestiality in your submission? (As stated in our FAQ - http://www.literotica.com/faq/ - mythical creatures like aliens, unicorns, and talking magic beasts are allowed, but not real life animals such as dogs, horses, etc.)"

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Mermaid sex is fine, as you note. My point was that there seems to be, how to put it? an ‘artificial unintelligence’ in the loop, one which rejects (or, in my case, reassigns) stories based on a fixed set of rules. Stories caught up in that net can be resubmitted easily, which seems to be your case now.

Good luck.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And a Werewolf if okay for some one to have sex with as it is really a human who can change into a wolf which is in essence a dog.

I'm so vanilla that the only reason my stuff gets rejected is because I forget to put - EDIT at the end of the title and I get a little note "Story already exists."

 

[SimonDoom]

Mermaid sex is fine, as you note. My point was that there seems to be, how to put it? an ‘artificial unintelligence’ in the loop, one which rejects (or, in my case, reassigns) stories based on a fixed set of rules. Stories caught up in that net can be resubmitted easily, which seems to be your case now.

Good luck.

Got it. I hope you're right.

 

[Heartsongs]

...

As I said before, it's basically a dildo with a brain. Up close, it doesn't look or act like a real earth organism.

I've never been turned on by artificial intelligence until now.

 

[whowrotethisshit]

I just had a poem bounced back for "While we publish prose poems and stories, we make a distinction between the two. If there is a plot arc intrinsic to the parapraphed piece, it's a story. Please submit this work to the story side, making sure it is 750+ words long"

But the thing is.. If I publish something I wrote as a poem to the story side.. it will get one-bombed to hell. And I'm prouda the poem. So I'm gonna keep it to myself.

I wrote this one story I was proud of and after it was bounced back (For good reason. I respect that decision whole heartedly.) But, I was desperate to publish something so I chopped it up and re-submitted until I was no longer proud of it. Without saving the original that I loved so much. I still kick myself for that.

Anyhow, sorry for the rant, I think maybe if you dropped the fish thing all together?

It would be funny if these worm aliens just came a'marchin up the shores. I mean we would all know you're working from reality, a very funny reality, but is it essential to know that theres a fish that looks like a wiener in this world? Maybe a passing comment of "some scientist are saying its the great migration of the illustrious wiener fish, but if that were the case.. why are there so many teeth?" No don't write that. But you know what I mean.

 

[KeithD]

Think you all might be working this too hard. Laurel doesn't read the submissions she and/or some program maybe just scan it. (how many million times have we noted that for casual appearance writers?) It's unfortunate that a clarification query of an only scanned entry comes across as a rejection, but that's how it is here. There may not be anything wrong with the story. I've had several rejections that went through as written when I confirmed what the scan thought might be there wasn't there. That's probably the case here. A simple refile pinning down what the story doesn't have what the query asked if it might have probably would save all of this "what iffing."

 

[ElectricBlue]

Mermaid sex is fine here, though, isn't it? A mermaid is a mythical creature, and sex with mythical creatures is fine. EB wrote a story about mermaid sex, and I don't think he had a problem getting it through.

The difference there, as others have pointed out, is the need for your strange creature thingie to exhibit sentience and, ideally, intelligence.

Setting your yarn amongst Californian surfer dudes put you behind the curve to start with, on that one. Just sayin' .

"You should have seen his little face, when he read the rejection letter," Suzie said. "Even Mom, doing her best Heather Locklear impression** couldn't jolly him out of it. He walked twice around the back of the computer to see if someone had got inside and was holding up little signs, as a prank."

"You mean, something like I'd do?" EB replied.

"You shouldn't tease," said Suzie. "It's serious."

"I'm sure it'll be fine. Probably just one of Laurel's bots doesn't know its arse from its elbow."

"Or a fish from a bicycle," commented Suzie, who'd been reading up on classical grafitti.

** or whoever Simon's favourite mom-inspiration is - he's mentioned someone who I'd never heard of (but had to agree that she was smokin' hot, from the linked pic).

Carry on .

 

[SimonDoom]

Apparently, my powers of persuasion were sufficient. The story is still pending but its status is now shown as "new" and the publication is set for Dec. 24, tomorrow.

Just the thing for Christmas Eve -- an alien dildo invasion story!

I'm still curious whether anyone else has encountered rejections or initial rejections for stories that explore the alien sex-bestiality boundary.

One that became clear from this experience, which I did not know before, is that the prohibition on bestiality includes more than just vertebrates, such as mammals, reptiles, birds, etc. Invertebrate sex isn't allowed either, unless it falls under the "mythical" or "alien" exception.

 

[SophieUK]

Not a story writer so I haven’t experienced your trials but..
You’ve somehow come up with an entertaining and educational thread (invertebrate sex?) and this line made me laugh out loud


Just the thing for Christmas Eve -- an alien dildo invasion story!

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Apparently, my powers of persuasion were sufficient. The story is still pending but its status is now shown as "new" and the publication is set for Dec. 24, tomorrow.

Just the thing for Christmas Eve -- an alien dildo invasion story!

Invertebrate sex isn't allowed either, unless it falls under the "mythical" or "alien" exception.

First off, Simon, congratulations on navigating yet another minefield.

Secondly, sir... How to put this? Kinky is OK here, almost expected at times. But invertebrate sex, Simon?

Really?

 

[SimonDoom]

Secondly, sir... How to put this? Kinky is OK here, almost expected at times. But invertebrate sex, Simon?

Really?

I don't advocate. I merely observe.

 

[SophieUK]

I don't advocate. I merely observe.

trying to ‘worm’ your way out of it?

 

[SimonDoom]

trying to ‘worm’ your way out of it?

I saw some wriggle room and I took it.

 

[MelissaBaby]

First off, Simon, congratulations on navigating yet another minefield.

Secondly, sir... How to put this? Kinky is OK here, almost expected at times. But invertebrate sex, Simon?

Really?

“Boner” is just an expression.