Regrets, I have a few

[hottchic]

I was inspired to write this post as a result of the post on Midlife Crisis.

Like the poster I can tick most of the boxes for a midlife crisis. I am now in my forties and my midlife crisis was triggered by a complete breakdown of my financial situation. Leaving me with debts no regular salary and limping along from one short term contract to the next.

You see my problem was that my self image had come to be all about my ability to provide financially for my family. So without that steady income, in my own eyes I had become nothing, just a waste of space.

So the long and short of it is that I fell into a severe depression, my marriage fell apart and I suddenly realized I didn't know who I really was because I had been wearing a mask for my entire life. Nobody knew the real me and I was not sure that anybody could like me if they really knew who I was. In always trying to please others and seeking the approval of others, somewhere along the line I had forgotten who I really was, that is if I ever knew in the first place.

So I joined an on-line support group for depression, I was in therapy for 3 months, and I joined support groups for co-dependency and cross dressing.

I am still impoverished and I still worry every day where the next paycheck will be coming from, but I am beginning to get an idea now about who I really am. When I write stories for Literotica it is one avenue for me to express who I really am. I laugh to myself thinking that many people who know me, not on-line, would be shocked to read some of the stories I write. Particularly my parents would probably consider the language and content of my stories to be filth.

In the journey to know myself, in the journey of self acceptance I am slowly but surely learning to love myself and understand at an emotional level that I don't need anybody's approval but my own.

I guess if I have any regrets it is that I did not start this journey of self discovery and self acceptance much earlier in my life.

 

[MarlowBunny]

You and I seem to be walking the same path through life. I may be a few paces behind you, but every word you wrote could have come out of my mouth.

Have you found the therapy to be valuable. I have been resisting therapy because of the time commitment and expense, but maybe I am being foolish.

I have the possibly unrealistic expectation that I should be able to pull myself together and fix things. In fact, I worry that if I can't, it just confirms that I am just a waste of space. Those exact words have come out of my mouth, and I think them often.

Good luck!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Been there, done that, and its all a waste of time and money.

Its like this, God gives everyone a gift of some kind, and the gift is who you really are. Regardless of what happens to you, and how often you fail, your gift is something you cant fail at and no one can take it from you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_QqaqXTirg

At words poetic, I'm so pathetic
That I always have found it best,
Instead of getting 'em off my chest,
To let 'em rest unexpressed,
I hate parading my serenading
As I'll probably miss a bar,
But if this ditty is not so pretty
At least it'll tell you
How great you are.

You're the top!
You're the Coliseum.
You're the top!
You're the Louver Museum.
You're a melody from a symphony by Strauss
You're a Bendel bonnet,
A Shakespeare's sonnet,
You're Mickey Mouse.
You're the Nile,
You're the Tower of Pisa,
You're the smile on the Mona Lisa
I'm a worthless check, a total wreck, a flop,
But if, baby, I'm the bottom you're the top!

Your words poetic are not pathetic.
On the other hand, babe, you shine,
And I can feel after every line
A thrill divine
Down my spine.
Now gifted humans like Vincent Youmans
Might think that your song is bad,
But I got a notion
I'll second the motion
And this is what I'm going to add;

You're the top!
You're Mahatma Gandhi.
You're the top!
You're Napoleon Brandy.
You're the purple light
Of a summer night in Spain,
You're the National Gallery
You're Garbo's salary,
You're cellophane.
You're sublime,
You're turkey dinner,
You're the time, the time of a Derby winner
I'm a toy balloon that’s fated soon to pop
But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

You're the top!
You're an arrow collar
You're the top!
You're a Coolidge dollar,
You're the nimble tread
Of the feet of Fred Astaire,
You're an O'Neill drama,

You're Whistler's mama!

You're camembert.

You're a rose,
You're Inferno's Dante,

You're the nose
On the great Durante.
I'm just in a way,
As the French would say, "de trop".
But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

You're the top!
You're a dance in Bali.
You're the top!
You're a hot tamale.
You're an angel, you,
Simply too, too, too diveen,
You're a Boticcelli,
You're Keats,
You're Shelly!

You're Ovaltine!
You're a boom,
You're the dam at Boulder,
You're the moon,
Over Mae West's shoulder,
I'm the nominee of the G.O.P.

Or GOP!

But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

You're the top!
You're a Waldorf salad.
You're the top!
You're a Berlin ballad.
You're the boats that glide
On the sleepy Zuider Zee,
You're an old Dutch master,

You're Lady Astor,
You're broccoli!
You're romance,
You're the steppes of Russia,
You're the pants, on a Roxy usher,
I'm a broken doll, a fol-de-rol, a blop,

But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!
COLE PORTER

 

[lovecraft68]

You and I seem to be walking the same path through life. I may be a few paces behind you, but every word you wrote could have come out of my mouth.

Have you found the therapy to be valuable. I have been resisting therapy because of the time commitment and expense, but maybe I am being foolish.

I have the possibly unrealistic expectation that I should be able to pull myself together and fix things. In fact, I worry that if I can't, it just confirms that I am just a waste of space. Those exact words have come out of my mouth, and I think them often.

Good luck!

I can tell you from experience you will not be able to pull yourself together. Even being with a loving supportive partner cannot help completely. Swallow your pride and speak to someone that is their job and what they are there for. They do not judge and it is always confidential. The fact that if you go you are doing something to help yourself rather than nothing will help your outlook as well.

 

[lovecraft68]

Been there, done that, and its all a waste of time and money.

Its like this, God gives everyone a gift of some kind, and the gift is who you really are. Regardless of what happens to you, and how often you fail, your gift is something you cant fail at and no one can take it from you.

At words poetic, I'm so pathetic
That I always have found it best,
Instead of getting 'em off my chest,
To let 'em rest unexpressed,
I hate parading my serenading
As I'll probably miss a bar,
But if this ditty is not so pretty
At least it'll tell you
How great you are.

You're the top!
You're the Coliseum.
You're the top!
You're the Louver Museum.
You're a melody from a symphony by Strauss
You're a Bendel bonnet,
A Shakespeare's sonnet,
You're Mickey Mouse.
You're the Nile,
You're the Tower of Pisa,
You're the smile on the Mona Lisa
I'm a worthless check, a total wreck, a flop,
But if, baby, I'm the bottom you're the top!

Your words poetic are not pathetic.
On the other hand, babe, you shine,
And I can feel after every line
A thrill divine
Down my spine.
Now gifted humans like Vincent Youmans
Might think that your song is bad,
But I got a notion
I'll second the motion
And this is what I'm going to add;

You're the top!
You're Mahatma Gandhi.
You're the top!
You're Napoleon Brandy.
You're the purple light
Of a summer night in Spain,
You're the National Gallery
You're Garbo's salary,
You're cellophane.
You're sublime,
You're turkey dinner,
You're the time, the time of a Derby winner
I'm a toy balloon that’s fated soon to pop
But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

You're the top!
You're an arrow collar
You're the top!
You're a Coolidge dollar,
You're the nimble tread
Of the feet of Fred Astaire,
You're an O'Neill drama,

You're Whistler's mama!

You're camembert.

You're a rose,
You're Inferno's Dante,

You're the nose
On the great Durante.
I'm just in a way,
As the French would say, "de trop".
But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

You're the top!
You're a dance in Bali.
You're the top!
You're a hot tamale.
You're an angel, you,
Simply too, too, too diveen,
You're a Boticcelli,
You're Keats,
You're Shelly!

You're Ovaltine!
You're a boom,
You're the dam at Boulder,
You're the moon,
Over Mae West's shoulder,
I'm the nominee of the G.O.P.

Or GOP!

But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

You're the top!
You're a Waldorf salad.
You're the top!
You're a Berlin ballad.
You're the boats that glide
On the sleepy Zuider Zee,
You're an old Dutch master,

You're Lady Astor,
You're broccoli!
You're romance,
You're the steppes of Russia,
You're the pants, on a Roxy usher,
I'm a broken doll, a fol-de-rol, a blop,

But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!
COLE PORTER

The part about you being your own gift is very well put. My wife is a life coach and motivational speaker and she speaks of things like that all the time. The problem is that not everyone realizes what you said and they need to be guided to that point. becoming dependent on that help for the rest of their life is not the right path but getting some initial direction can be a good thing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LOVEBOAT

It requires a special moment to reveal itself. That is, the stage must be set with all the players and props for the revelation to make a life changing impression.

Mine came many years ago. An english teacher saw a spark in me and shoehorned me in a class restricted to the best and brightest. I devoutly believed I was knee-high to a Munchkin in comparison to my classmates. The others were the Superlatives in every sense of the word.

But we had to take a battery of tests to measure our aptitude for the program: Prose writing, poetry, and lyric composition. When the tests were scored one student made a 100 percent, the rest made less than 70%.

 

[lovecraft68]

LOVEBOAT

It requires a special moment to reveal itself. That is, the stage must be set with all the players and props for the revelation to make a life changing impression.

Mine came many years ago. An english teacher saw a spark in me and shoehorned me in a class restricted to the best and brightest. I devoutly believed I was knee-high to a Munchkin in comparison to my classmates. The others were the Superlatives in every sense of the word.

But we had to take a battery of tests to measure our aptitude for the program: Prose writing, poetry, and lyric composition. When the tests were scored one student made a 100 percent, the rest made less than 70%.

That is a good story and unfortunately something that would not happen today. That teacher had the time and the where with all to see something in you and act on it. These days teachers are either lazy or even if dedicated so overwhelmed with class size and "problem" children they cannot take that interest and many kids do not get the chance to realize or strive for their potential the way you did.

These days all kids heave "ADD' and get medicated so they can spend their lives medicated and with the crutch of an alleged disease. When I owned the comic store we had Magic and yugioh tournaments. The parents would hang around sometimes and tell my wife all about how JR has ADD and trouble learning and is on meds.

Well JR could play Magic for 8 consecutive hours and tell me not only the names of 500 cards but what they all did and what other cards worked with them. ADD my ass. Laziness on the part of the child which is understandable but also and mostly laziness on the part of the teacher and the parents which is inexcusable.

I will share my own story to show the difference in attitudes. I am not sure on our age difference but I am going to guess at least 20 years (obviously I was born in 68 as my handle says)
When I was in second grade the teacher told my parents that I was slow. I didn't pay attention or participate in class often daydreamed or talked when I was supposed to listen. She suggested putting me in special classes or even holding me back. My mother did not buy it and went to the principle who had me take some tests. Come to find out I was not slow but bored out of my skull. i was reading at a far higher level at home than in school and was a math whiz. In the end I went to special classes but advanced special classes and skipped a grade entirely.
Point is in both our cases raising the bar rather than lowering it did something for us. These days it is minimal effort and oh well a chain reaction starting at home and extending through school that is leading to a generation of over medicated weak willed babies who will never see their potential.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LOVEBOAT

I came along in the 40s. I was in Vietnam by 1968.

In the days when I assessed kids for ADD I sat them down with a computer game while I talked to mama. Real ADD and ADHD cant play games or watch tv shows. The wannabees often had no ADD or they had a tidge of developmental immaturity that would vanish in time, like being short or flat-chested.

Another hallmark of ADHD is purposeless activity. Like...crawling across the top of my desk, dumping mama's bag on the floor, throwing books at the wall, sitting atop the computer monitor.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My personal theory is this: Whatever youre doing when youre 11 includes your special gift.

So if youre drawing pictures, singing all the time, beating on drums, growing a garden, whatever! what you love to do likely includes your gift.

 

[hottchic]

@Marlowbunny

Personally I found that therapy, was useful but the important thing to understand is that you only get out of it what you put into it. I believe it is most effective in short bursts like a few months at a time. I have heard that if people are in therapy for years it just becomes a crutch.

For me therapy is just a part of what I have used in my journey of self discovery and self acceptance. Personally I think it is important to balance therapy with reading, meditation, journal writing and the experiences of others having similar issues.

My main advice to you is to try to avoid beating yourself up, and I know that this is much easier said than done. I will often lapse into periods of depression even now but when I am in balance I am aware that even in the darker periods, since I started on the journey of self acceptance I am moving forwards.

@JBJ

I agree that we all have a god given talent that can never be taken away from us and I also believe that to a certain extent our spiritual work is to find our talent and use it.

PS: I loved the Cole Porter post.

@Lovecraft

You make a good point about people not being able to pull themselves together. In the terminology that I have been learning in my own process I would say, We admitted that we were powerless over everything in our lives accept our own behavior.

On the other hand I do not think anybody should be willing to put all their trust in the hands of a mental health professional, as I said earlier in my reply to Marlow, I think a multifaceted approach is most effective.

---------------------------------------

Finally just one more comment:

If I see myself as beautiful, I see others as beautiful

If I love myself, I can love others

But if allow feelings of self hate and self deprivation to dominate my thinking, I see the world as a cruel and unfriendly place.

 

[lovecraft68]

LOVEBOAT

I came along in the 40s. I was in Vietnam by 1968.

In the days when I assessed kids for ADD I sat them down with a computer game while I talked to mama. Real ADD and ADHD cant play games or watch tv shows. The wannabees often had no ADD or they had a tidge of developmental immaturity that would vanish in time, like being short or flat-chested.

Another hallmark of ADHD is purposeless activity. Like...crawling across the top of my desk, dumping mama's bag on the floor, throwing books at the wall, sitting atop the computer monitor.

Okay so you're my dad's age

I here ADHD mentioned a lot less frequently and if I am not mistaken that features a lot of hyper activity that leads to that type of behavior and generally there is some need for medication. Now that I could have possibly or still have. I practically tick. I sleep maybe 4 hours a night work my ass off at a physical job all day and when I am home pace and can't sit still. I can also post on Lit. chat on yahoo and write my stories at the same time.
I think in this day and age I would have been medicated and probably held back a bit in school. As long as you can give a positive direction to that type of excess energy it isn't a terrible thing but once again someone has to be willing to give that direction. It's not the kids fault and it upsets me because the parents laziness or their gullibility with the doctors will hold these kids back their entire lives. If I had a gun with one bullet and permission to use it. Dr. Phil would be a Goner (spell that right?)

 

[lovecraft68]

@Marlowbunny

Personally I found that therapy, was useful but the important thing to understand is that you only get out of it what you put into it. I believe it is most effective in short bursts like a few months at a time. I have heard that if people are in therapy for years it just becomes a crutch.

For me therapy is just a part of what I have used in my journey of self discovery and self acceptance. Personally I think it is important to balance therapy with reading, meditation, journal writing and the experiences of others having similar issues.

My main advice to you is to try to avoid beating yourself up, and I know that this is much easier said than done. I will often lapse into periods of depression even now but when I am in balance I am aware that even in the darker periods, since I started on the journey of self acceptance I am moving forwards.

@JBJ

I agree that we all have a god given talent that can never be taken away from us and I also believe that to a certain extent our spiritual work is to find our talent and use it.

PS: I loved the Cole Porter post.

@Lovecraft

You make a good point about people not being able to pull themselves together. In the terminology that I have been learning in my own process I would say, We admitted that we were powerless over everything in our lives accept our own behavior.

On the other hand I do not think anybody should be willing to put all their trust in the hands of a mental health professional, as I said earlier in my reply to Marlow, I think a multifaceted approach is most effective.

---------------------------------------

Finally just one more comment:

If I see myself as beautiful, I see others as beautiful

If I love myself, I can love others

But if allow feelings of self hate and self deprivation to dominate my thinking, I see the world as a cruel and unfriendly place.

Counseling is just that or should be. It is some guidance not someone living for you. So you have to go into counseling with the attitude that it is you who still have to do the work not them they are there as a sounding board and in many cases-mine personally- I was led to the answers by the counselor they directed the questions and brought me around to see what I already should have.

the powerless comment to me smacks of a "group" such as AA or NA and they are not bad things either. I went to anger management voluntarily because that was my particular issue. had one of those "hate on's" for the world and all that happened to me when I was younger between the meetings and the counseling I got my shit together and although there will always be those "moments" I am a better person for going. Also you are right Self loathing will lead to loathing in general if you are that down on yourself others will pick it up and treat you that way.

 

[hottchic]

the powerless comment to me smacks of a "group" such as AA or NA and they are not bad things either. I went to anger management voluntarily because that was my particular issue. had one of those "hate on's" for the world and all that happened to me when I was younger between the meetings and the counseling I got my shit together and although there will always be those "moments" I am a better person for going. Also you are right Self loathing will lead to loathing in general if you are that down on yourself others will pick it up and treat you that way.

Yes lovecraft you are right in your assumption, in my case it has been codependents anonymous CoDA that was and still is of value to me.

There is one codependent trait in particular which has applied to me which is:

'I value others’ approval of my thinking, feelings, and behavior over my own.'

And while this was my major mode, in Jungian terminology this gave rise to also holding the opposite extreem in my thinking, in that at times I would become rebelious and defensive refusing to listen to anybody's observations of me.

Apart from anything else the CoDA meetings have been invaluable to me in terms of learning to listen openly and without comment about what other people have to share rather than somehow trying to construe everything they say as somehow about me as I tended to do in the past.

If people do make observations about me that I believe have some merit, I am now capable of taking that on board. On the other hand in the case of people who can only offer destructive critisism I am now able to ignore it, at least half of the time anyway.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The greatest danger of psychotherapy is the therapist who's too clever and knows it all. You want one who senses the paradoxes and ambivalence, and knows thats where the real work is. And you want one who knows how far they can bend you without breaking anything.

Most of these people regard you as a restoration project..like a Model T, and THAT is the wrong idea.

 

[lovecraft68]

'I value others’ approval of my thinking, feelings, and behavior over my own.'

The abused always seeks the approval of the abuser. This is the endless loop that relatives of any form of addict endlessly cope with. I ma divorced and remarried. My daughters mother is a alcoholic bi polar piece of work who will not seek help. Those who think she is wrong and speak on it are "off her list"
My oldest daughter has always lived with her. Even when the ex up and ran to Florida to do whatever she wanted to my daughter stayed with her step father-a weak willed sap who put up with anything my ex wife wanted to do including cheating on him all but in front of him- My daughter was 17 and had quit school (mother's permission) and wa working full time there fore emancipated and I could not force her to come with me. She stayed so she could do whatever she wanted. Her mother came back and it was like "mommy" never left she constantly seeks her approval and is bi polar herself. while mom was gone I get her to get her GEd and start community college she also received two promotions in work and got meds for her issues.
Mom comes back she is no longer in school and is off her meds because it is what mom suggested.
My younger daughter came to live with me at 14. she is going to college this year, exhibits none of her mothers issues and could give two shits whether her mother exists or not. She has broke the loop and will succeed in whatever she wants to. My other daughter is trapped in a sick circle of addiction and enabling she has no self esteem and seems to think she is as worthless as her mother. Sad thing is her mother would have it no other way.
her life will go downhill until she-and she is the only one who can do this- decides that she is worth more and deserves better.
I am glad to hear you have reached that point.

 

[lovecraft68]

The greatest danger of psychotherapy is the therapist who's too clever and knows it all. You want one who senses the paradoxes and ambivalence, and knows thats where the real work is. And you want one who knows how far they can bend you without breaking anything.

Most of these people regard you as a restoration project..like a Model T, and THAT is the wrong idea.

You want the one , that like mine, leads you to your own conclusions and does not decide for you. In essence an educated unbiased sounding board.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LOVEBOAT

Lets not BS each other; if our heads were on straight we wouldnt need a shrink. The trick is finding one less fucked up than ourselves.

There is no such thing as co-dependency; co-dependency is a cute name fucked up therapists gave to 'cooperation' and the process of letting your partner have a smidgen of the glory.

Run! dont walk away from any assclown who utters the word 'co-dependent.'

 

[hottchic]

In my own case my therapy was Person Centered Therapy (PCT), first developed by the psychologist Carl Rogers. Here the most important thing for the therapist is to display Unconditional Positive Regard, which is basically the same thing as unconditional acceptance of the client.

The problem for the therapist can arrise when the therapist is not fully accepting of him/her self in some area of their lives which causes an unconcious (on the part of the therapist) bias on the therapy. On this basis, I would look for a therapist who was more self accepting than myself which 3 years ago was not hard to find.

There have been critisisms of PCT because it is heavily dependent on the willingness of the client to explore his/her self. In my own case I was also doing self help cognitive behavioral therapy CBT while I was having my PCT therapy sessions. In my case this certainly helped me but probably isn't for everybody.

@JBJ

While I do accept that claiming a state co-dependency can be used as an excuse for not cooperating in a relationship. I also have come to the conclusion that avoiding thinking about what I wanted for myself in life by concentrating solely on pleasing others resulted in me having a very low self esteem which in the end was detrimental to both myself and those around me.

-----------------------------------------------------------


I once heard my wife (who I am currently separated from) saying that she heard somewhere that in a relationship there always has to be a stronger and a weaker personality. I think this is wrong, in a good intimate relationship I believe there has to be an equal partnership.

Now I may be wrong, I am always open to that possibility, but if I am then the question for me is: Would I want to be in a relationship where I am dominated by my partner?

I guess I have answered my own question through my actions, the answer is no.

Interestingly there are many stories here on Literotica which play on the idea of people having to be forced to realize their secret fantasies. This is based on the idea that these people grow up being ashamed of who they are.

In my own experiance I have found that the more self accepting I become the less I fantasize about being dominated and made to do things. And the more honest I am with myself about what my wants and needs are. I can fantasize about doing something which society might consider kinky and unusual without fantasizing that I have to be forced to do it.

 

[lovecraft68]

LOVEBOAT

Lets not BS each other; if our heads were on straight we wouldnt need a shrink. The trick is finding one less fucked up than ourselves.

There is no such thing as co-dependency; co-dependency is a cute name fucked up therapists gave to 'cooperation' and the process of letting your partner have a smidgen of the glory.

Run! dont walk away from any assclown who utters the word 'co-dependent.'

I think them uttering co-dependency is okay as long as it is followed with them giving you the reasons that it is not healthy and to break away from it. Some people do not know they are co-dependent.

lets not kid ourselves by thinking that the average person does not need the obvious pointed out to them.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

HOTTCHIC

When I started out Freud was the man, and since his time every combination and permutation of odd-duck has come waddling down the bunny trail.

And, when you discard ego, id, parent, child, adult, top dog, underdog, et al, at the core of each scheme is the idea of self awareness. The distilled product is something called CLINICAL EPISTEMOLOGY. How in fuck do you know what youre blabbering about!

Consequently there are no CO-DEPENDENTS or moms who make their boyz queer or schizophrenic, and sugar is paroled by the governor as the cause of hyperactivity. Things are what they are, nominalizations are not things, and some things have varying degrees of utility.

If your partner wipes your hiney its utility depends on your competence to do the work yourself...or maybe it gives your partner a boner...or maybe Social Security pays them to do it.

 

[hottchic]

@JBJ

I know I shouldn't let people get to me but I still do. When I have got past this point maybe I have really made progress.

My mother used to call me lazy, maybe I am, maybe I am irresponsible, probably I should never have married with all my hangups. I was fucked up and probably I still am and believe it or not I don't blame it on anybody else. It is just the way things were, I let myself respond and react the way I did, nobody made me.

I made myself the way I am today, a screw up? To many people I probably am. All I can say is it's my life and in the end I can choose to lead it the way I like. People can call me selfish, I don't really give a shit anymore.

I don't want to control anybody's life and I don't want anybody to control mine. And if the problem is that I enable people to do that then I can choose not to be in a relationship. And I may feel lonely because of that but in the end, what the fuck it is my decision.

 

[hottchic]

And yes I was being defensive I am well aware of that but I still value my view point.

 

[hottchic]

Hey guys, in the end I realized that I have got something very important out of this thread.

In the latest story, the 5th chapter in a series I have been writing, I realised that there are very definate limits in how far one of the main characters can push the protagonist's envolope even when she is convinced that the protagonist will thank her for it afterwards.

As I have explained in various replies I have made to this thread. To try to push somebody too hard to do something personal, particularly in a sexual context, which goes against their wishes is quite simply abuse, even where no physical force is involved.

In this story I had played around with the idea of reluctance but if there is supposed to be true love between the protagonists there has to be a limit that will not be crossed. The protagonist in the end must be left to decide (without pressure) if she is prepared to agree to something.