Reflexive Words and Style

[dr_mabeuse]

From an addendum to the style guide of a publisher I deal with: the following terms will no longer be accepted: The list is presented verbatim with their comments.

===========
He shrugged his shoulders. (what else is he gonna shrug?)
She waved her hand at them. (why not just waved at them?)
He squinted his eyes. She blinked her eyes. (as if one might
squint/blink another body part?)
Bald-headed man (unlike a bald-chested man?)
Breathing in and out (is there another way to breathe?)
She pursed her lips together.
He nodded his head.
Swallowed visibly or shook visibly (as opposed to invisibly?
BUT "appeared/was visibly shaken" is correct. Entirely different
things.)
PIN number. PIN means personal identification number. You wouldn't
say personal identification number number.
She thought to herself (who else would she think to?)
"the reason is because"
=============

I'm pissed. I think they're getting overly nit-picky. Comments?

 

[CharleyH]

From an addendum to the style guide of a publisher I deal with: the following terms will no longer be accepted: The list is presented verbatim with their comments.

===========
He shrugged his shoulders. (what else is he gonna shrug?)
She waved her hand at them. (why not just waved at them?)
He squinted his eyes. She blinked her eyes. (as if one might
squint/blink another body part?)
Bald-headed man (unlike a bald-chested man?)
Breathing in and out (is there another way to breathe?)
She pursed her lips together.
He nodded his head.
Swallowed visibly or shook visibly (as opposed to invisibly?
BUT "appeared/was visibly shaken" is correct. Entirely different
things.)
PIN number. PIN means personal identification number. You wouldn't
say personal identification number number.
She thought to herself (who else would she think to?)
"the reason is because"
=============

I'm pissed. I think they're getting overly nit-picky. Comments?

ROFLOL - I am on my way out, but promise to give a good read tomorrow. Initially? Seems odd, Doc.

 

[Liar]

PIN number. PIN means personal identification number. You wouldn't
say personal identification number number.

ATM machine.
RAM memory.
And believe it or not, I recently got an invite to a garden party that was "BYOB beer".

 

[English Lady]

My editors pull me up for them kinda things fairly often. I like to think I'm getting better at it though.

PIN just doesn't sound right though, I know the 'number" in "PIN number' is redundant, but it just sounds right. *L*

 

[tickledkitty]

My editor(s) catch me for stuff like that all the time anyway. I agree with the PIN number thing though. It is redundant.

 

[jomar]

My editor(s) catch me for stuff like that all the time anyway. I agree with the PIN number thing though. It is redundant.

In writing it is, but people do say it in real life.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I agree with some of those, depending on the writer's style. But really, nits are being picked to death here-- just try writing; "She pursed," and see if your readers can make any sense out of that.

You can swallow and shake invisibly, or at least, discretely, or visibly and obviously.

You can wave a hand, a hanky, a sword, a white flag, a tail, if you're wearing one.
You can blink a lantern, or a stop light, or your flashlight.

Breathing in and out is a mood-- usually, you have to concentrate on your breathing, to simply breath in or out. Otherwise, yeah, it's not so necessary.

And I don't care about that repeated 'number'-- everyone says 'PIN number,' even my bank's weblogin.

 

[Katyusha]

I'm pissed. I think they're getting overly nit-picky. Comments?

I gotta agree. To me those "redundancies" add to the picture I'm building in my head, so long as they're not overdone. I see why they might do that if they have too many authors doing that entirely too often in their work but honestly. I think they're getting overly nit-picky too.

 

[R. Richard]

From an addendum to the style guide of a publisher I deal with: the following terms will no longer be accepted: The list is presented verbatim with their comments.
=============

I'm pissed. I think they're getting overly nit-picky. Comments?

She waved her hand at them. (why not just waved at them?)
Dr_M: In this case it may be necessary to indicate if she waved her whole hand, or just one finger.

PIN number. PIN means personal identification number. You wouldn't
say personal identification number number.
Dr_M: In general yes. It is also generally verboten to say pizza pie. However, if your character is in the Walla Walla Cafe in Walla Walla Washington, wearing a muu-muu or a lava-lava and listening to the Cow Cow Boogie, then it's allowable to say pizza pie.

 

[Guest]

Nit-picky.

Except perhaps for the last.

The reason is because -

That seems a bit much.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DOC

This sort of thing is common. I worked at a mental health center where they suddenly banned therapists from identifying relationships in patient casenotes. If a patient came in with her husband no one knew who the man was, her dad?, her son? her brother?

It got so bad they even forbade any references to the patient in the notes, so no one knew who the note pertained to.

 

[jomar]

DOC

This sort of thing is common. I worked at a mental health center where they suddenly banned therapists from identifying relationships in patient casenotes. If a patient came in with her husband no one knew who the man was, her dad?, her son? her brother?

It got so bad they even forbade any references to the patient in the notes, so no one knew who the note pertained to.

Okay, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. But I can believe a committee of bureaucrats could decide it would be good policy in this HIPPA crazy environment.

 

[starrkers]

From an addendum to the style guide of a publisher I deal with: the following terms will no longer be accepted: The list is presented verbatim with their comments.

===========
He shrugged his shoulders. (what else is he gonna shrug?)
She waved her hand at them. (why not just waved at them?)
He squinted his eyes. She blinked her eyes. (as if one might
squint/blink another body part?)
Bald-headed man (unlike a bald-chested man?)
Breathing in and out (is there another way to breathe?)
She pursed her lips together.
He nodded his head.
Swallowed visibly or shook visibly (as opposed to invisibly?
BUT "appeared/was visibly shaken" is correct. Entirely different
things.)
PIN number. PIN means personal identification number. You wouldn't
say personal identification number number.
She thought to herself (who else would she think to?)
"the reason is because"
=============

I'm pissed. I think they're getting overly nit-picky. Comments?

*shrug* They all make sense to me (even PIN, except in dialogue).

 

[Oblimo]

I thought there was a moratorium on the frequent use of adverbs and adverbial phrases since the invention of the novel.

 

[SeaCat]

ATM machine.
RAM memory.
And believe it or not, I recently got an invite to a garden party that was "BYOB beer".

Ever hear of a Chili Pepper?

Cat

 

[BarbarouSevil]

ATM machine.
RAM memory.
And believe it or not, I recently got an invite to a garden party that was "BYOB beer".

The first "B" is for Budweiser. You didn't bring Corona, did you?

As for the original list, I assume that bald-headed woman is okay. At least on this site.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

JOMAR

It makes sense if weasles want to avoid lawsuits; the notes are missing all referential indices.

 

[SemiColon]

I can see how the list can challenge you to write better and think about over-used phrases, but any hard and fast rule makes me want to break it just to show I can. I think you'd have to throw them out for dialog, though, b/c people really do talk like that.

He shrugged. Yes it is correct, but he shrugged his shoulders makes my mind linger a second longer over the visual of the shoulders.

I read that 90% of people read at a 12 year old level, and if you are going for mass market you need to keep that in mind (unlike all of our fine readers here who are intelligent and well-read).

Now I want to shrug something else. You can shrug into a dress or jacket...what else can I do with shrugged?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My guess is someone attended an expensive seminar and brought home some handouts to impress everyone with. This always happens after seminars.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

ATM machine.
RAM memory.
And believe it or not, I recently got an invite to a garden party that was "BYOB beer".

"BYOB" stands for "Bring Your Own Bottle". If the hosts wanted beer only, that makes sense.

What gets me is that I consider some of these phrases idioms; that is English usages that violate rules of grammar or sense but are accepted by convention, such as "It's me" rather than the correct, "It is I," and some of them achieve a special emphasis by redundancy.

"He thought to himself," to me, is subtly different than, "he thought." I'll admit, this isn't the end of the world, but "thinking to [one's]self" implies a private, furtive kind of thinking that "he thought" doesn't.

It's like, why say, "he kept his thoughts to himself" when you could similarly say, "He kept his thoughts"? Because where else is he going to keep his thoughts if not to himself? But the "himself" serves a purpose here, as it does in thinking to oneself.

In any case, this one publisher is going way the hell overboard on their style guide. Because their editors get paid by the ms. and not by the hour, the eds now want the manuscripts to be dead rotten perfect upon submission. They even expect authors to hire professional proofreaders to proof the ms. before submission, which is unheard of. They were discussing a cut-off of one error per ten pages! More than this and they'd return the ms to the author. This is much more stringent than New York standards.

It makes me want to shrug and purse. "Maybe I need a new publisher," I think.

 

[MarshAlien]

"BYOB" stands for "Bring Your Own Bottle". If the hosts wanted beer only, that makes sense.

What gets me is that I consider some of these phrases idioms; that is English usages that violate rules of grammar or sense but are accepted by convention, such as "It's me" rather than the correct, "It is I," and some of them achieve a special emphasis by redundancy.

"He thought to himself," to me, is subtly different than, "he thought." I'll admit, this isn't the end of the world, but "thinking to [one's]self" implies a private, furtive kind of thinking that "he thought" doesn't.

It's like, why say, "he kept his thoughts to himself" when you could similarly say, "He kept his thoughts"? Because where else is he going to keep his thoughts if not to himself? But the "himself" serves a purpose here, as it does in thinking to oneself.

In any case, this one publisher is going way the hell overboard on their style guide. Because their editors get paid by the ms. and not by the hour, the eds now want the manuscripts to be dead rotten perfect upon submission. They even expect authors to hire professional proofreaders to proof the ms. before submission, which is unheard of. They were discussing a cut-off of one error per ten pages! More than this and they'd return the ms to the author. This is much more stringent than New York standards.

It makes me want to shrug and purse. "Maybe I need a new publisher," I think.

On the other hand, it is one more publisher than most of the rest of us have . . .

 

[Guest]

I just wanna watch Zoot shrug and purse.

 

[MarshAlien]

I just wanna watch Zoot shrug and purse.

That will be fun. I thought that the only objectionable word in "She pursed her lips together" was "together." Don't you still need "her lips?"

 

[Guest]

That will be fun. I thought that the only objectionable word in "She pursed her lips together" was "together." Don't you still need "her lips?"

I think you need "her lips". You also need "together".

If you google image search "lips apart" you get pictures of pussy.

If you google image search of "pursed lips" you get a wide variety.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/pursedlips1.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/pursedlips2.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/pursedlips3.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/pursedlips4.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b318/sweetsubsarahh/pursedlips5.jpg

 

[rgraham666]

I prefer to use the word 'moue' for that shape of the mouth. It sounds soooo cool.