Recent posted stories...

[ninefe2dg]

I'd be grateful for any and all feedback on the stories I have up now (there's ten of them)

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=746863&page=submissions

Many of you have seen Clueless, Sasha, Shopping Mall Hottie. I'd be particularly interested in feedback on 7th at Pebble and Art Project, tho any feedback on any of these is most welcome!

I've been pleasantly surprised with the reaction to these...

Shopping Mall Hottie also is rewritten, based on feedback I got here as well.

Thanks to everyone who contributes to this board, even if you don't comment, I appreciate the reads! For all of you who have commented, thanks again so much. In particular, Varian P, your help is immeasurable!!

 

[ninefe2dg]

A shameless bump...

While I understand the limitations in validity, re the ratings, I'm nonetheless surprised some of my older stuff, which I never ran through this feedback board, is rating 1/2 a point to a point higher than the three stories I got feedback on, rewrote, etc. The older stories are chock full of the dreaded "telly exposition", so I'm really curious about people's opinions of those stories, specifically, Night at the Katazushi, 7th at Pebble, Art Project. I'm also interested in what people think of the Shopping Mall Hottie rewrite.

Any and all feedback is most welcome. Thanks!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

THE ART SUBJECT.

You write well.

Reading the story I kept thinking "THIS WOULD BE GREAT IN SEVENTEEN MAGAZINE." That is, it comes across as mindless adolescent chatter. It reminds me of the old CHARMS tv show.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SHOPPING MALL HOTTIE.

Marsha Brady with a tape recorder in her bag. It's not a story it's a necklace of stuff you found while taking a walk.

But you write well.

You have the spark; what you dont have is the fundamentals.

Read ROMEO & JULIET. Its the same scenario but has a powerful story within it.

 

[ninefe2dg]

THE ART SUBJECT.

You write well.

Reading the story I kept thinking "THIS WOULD BE GREAT IN SEVENTEEN MAGAZINE." That is, it comes across as mindless adolescent chatter. It reminds me of the old CHARMS tv show.

Thanks! Too bad I wasn't around when Kevin Williamson was recruiting people to write snappy angst filled teen reparte for Dawson's Creek!

Appreciate the read and the comments...

 

[ninefe2dg]

SHOPPING MALL HOTTIE.

Marsha Brady with a tape recorder in her bag. It's not a story it's a necklace of stuff you found while taking a walk.

But you write well.

You have the spark; what you dont have is the fundamentals.

Read ROMEO & JULIET. Its the same scenario but has a powerful story within it.

Say more about "fundamentals" if you don't mind. I'll read R&J...I'm glad my enthusiasm/passion comes through...but tell me what I should be looking for, thanks!

Marcia Brady...Charmed...I don't exactly act my age now, do I?

Again, thanks for taking the time!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I dont know your age, do I? You dont give it anywhere.

But your style of writing reminds me of playwrights, and this book is pretty good: THE ART OF DRAMATIC WRITING by Lajos Egri.

His illustrations and examples are plays, but the principles apply to stories and novels, too. It's helped me. Now! Egri thought himself a gifted psychologist. I think he sucks as a psychologist. But he knows what a premise is, even when he gets it wrong. And he knows how scenes and such work.

I love your talent for dialogue, even if teenage chatter sux.

So, learn what in hell a story is, shape your scenes better, and learn about premises.

 

[ninefe2dg]

I dont know your age, do I? You dont give it anywhere.

But your style of writing reminds me of playwrights, and this book is pretty good: THE ART OF DRAMATIC WRITING by Lajos Egri.

His illustrations and examples are plays, but the principles apply to stories and novels, too. It's helped me. Now! Egri thought himself a gifted psychologist. I think he sucks as a psychologist. But he knows what a premise is, even when he gets it wrong. And he knows how scenes and such work.

I love your talent for dialogue, even if teenage chatter sux.

So, learn what in hell a story is, shape your scenes better, and learn about premises.

Thanks for the tip. I'll check out that book, and learn about a premise...appreciate the encouragement.

Let's just say, I remember when Marcia Brady was in prime time

I was a Jan guy m'self, though (after she lost the glasses and the braces)

Take care...

 

[DeeZire]

One 'r' in Monterey. The one with two 'r's is in Mexico.

I was hoping for a flashback to my old hometown, since I grew up there, but when the exposition about the junior nationals or whatever it was started, I bailed. (Short attention span.) Perhaps if I was a golf fan I would have stuck with the story.

 

[ninefe2dg]

One 'r' in Monterey. The one with two 'r's is in Mexico.

I was hoping for a flashback to my old hometown, since I grew up there, but when the exposition about the junior nationals or whatever it was started, I bailed. (Short attention span.) Perhaps if I was a golf fan I would have stuck with the story.

Not only that, the golf stuff is full of golf jargon/vernacular...had you persisted you might have been thoroughly bored or nonplussed. I've visited Monterey with one "r" and I'd say you're blessed to have grown up there. It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen.

Thanks for having a look, hope you have a chance to check out another...

 

[ninefe2dg]

I dont know your age, do I? You dont give it anywhere.

But your style of writing reminds me of playwrights, and this book is pretty good: THE ART OF DRAMATIC WRITING by Lajos Egri.

His illustrations and examples are plays, but the principles apply to stories and novels, too. It's helped me. Now! Egri thought himself a gifted psychologist. I think he sucks as a psychologist. But he knows what a premise is, even when he gets it wrong. And he knows how scenes and such work.

I love your talent for dialogue, even if teenage chatter sux.

So, learn what in hell a story is, shape your scenes better, and learn about premises.

Hi JBJ...I spent about 10 minutes on the Internet today looking up "premise" as it pertains to story writing...hardly enough to really appreciate the meaning but perhaps enough to ask a question...some of the definitions I saw were "underlying idea of a story", "foundation upon which the story is built", "what is at stake in the story"...

OK, my question is whether or not a premise can be reverse engineered. Take Shopping Mall Hottie...OK, I didn't establish a premise up front, but as I think about it, is one possible premise "the consequences/results of being stuck in a relationship going nowhere"...that seems to impact both main characters...Steve is frustrated, sour, sexually desperate enough to sneak off in an attempt to shag "the Hottie". Marcia is whiney, frustrated, knows in her head Steve will never marry her. The Hottie is important to her as she winds up being a steppingstone for her to ultimately dump Steve. Now, if I were to reveal some of Marcia's motivations, it potentially spoils the twists of 1) the "cheaters" bit and 2) that it is Marcia and not Steve who hooks up with the Hottie.

That's where I get a bit confused..."premise", while I hope to better understand it's meaning, almost seems too structured...how do plot twists fit into it? Unless you don't accept that I can define a premise after I've written a story...

(Note, I'm throwing this all out as an attempt to learn and am NOT at all debating/arguing...I know what I don't know and am trying to learn)

If I thought about it, this "story" could be a scene of a much larger story (that will never be written, this is hypothetical)...with a premise that this story could fit into. Where I'm going with that, is that I've seen a number of posts by Jenny Jackson, who will point out that a "story" she's read is not really a "story", but a vignette, a scene that perhaps is part of a bigger story...I'm wondering if it's the "premise" that distinguishes a story from a vignette??

The purpose of this thread for me was to understand why my "telly expository" earlier stuff is rating higher than all the stuff I've rewritten/sweat over, thanks to all the feedback I've gotten. I'm still interested in any thoughts on that on one hand. On the other hand, I'm interested in any thoughts on "premise" as well.

Thanks again, JBJ...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

NINEFE2DG

Take ROMEO & JULIET. The accepted premise of R & J is 'LOVE FINDS A WAY."
But that's nonsense. R & J isnt about love at all. The real premise of R & J is: Kids get into serious shit when no one supervises them adequately. When the government and the village and family and friends and the kids themseves fail to act, bad things happen. So Mercutio ends up dead, Thibault is killed, Romeo dies, and Juliet dies. All of them kids. My premise must be correct because it accounts for all the principle action in the play. And kids are the principle players.

So a premise is a proposition that leads to a logical conclusion. All the principle action points to the premise.

The premise for your story might be: Relationships fail when there is no foundation of respect and honor. Or whatever.

You can form the premise in reverse by determining what the outcome is in each scene. But if the outcome in each scene is different the premise becomes very complex. In R & J most of the scenes involve kids brawling or dueling or taking poison or stabbing. Even the famous balcony scene has all the potential for violence if Romeo is caught with Juliet. Ditto for the Capulet party Romeo crashes. The kids are always unsupervised.

 

[Varian P]

Damn, Cut! blew me away.

You packed a lot into that brief little story: you depicted a rape in an admirably non-eroticised way, with some subtle subtext about the nature of sexual violence (the perp can't get hard when she's willing to have sex with him, and is only able to get aroused in the context of his violence against her), and your narrator, who retains her brittle quippiness through the assault, becomes utterly vulnerable and endearing at the end, during her online conversation with her friend. That adds a layer of depth to a story which, otherwise, might have read more like the stuck up whore got what was coming to her. For those of us who've read "Clueless," there's a lot of added poignancy, as we've gotten to see Isabelle as a "normal" girl, much easier to identify with than the jaded, prickly, proud porn star narrating this story.

Even though the narrative style is very similar to your other stories, I think it works particularly well, here.

My only real criticism of this story is one that's extremely subjective, but hey, what's a crit without a negative? It bothered me that all the bad people in this are people who make easy villains: the pornographer, the ugly little guy, and the sexual "deviant" (gay guy). It's not that I found the characters unbelievable, my criticism is more about the nature of representation: in Lord of the Rings, the good guys are all attractive (well, except for that dwarf with the gnarly beard, maybe), and the bad guys are all ugly. Male pedophiles who prey on male children are often conflated with "homosexuals," and pornographers tend to be portrayed as universally sexually predatory. So, I guess I just felt the bad guys fell too much into stereotypes of the kinds of men who rape. But again, that's more of my subjective lit crit rant than a criticism of the merits of the story as a story.

You might not be getting high votes on this piece, precisely for the reasons that I think make this story good: the rape isn't titillating, and it's a sad story.

You should be really proud of this one.

-V

 

[ninefe2dg]

NINEFE2DG

Take ROMEO & JULIET. The accepted premise of R & J is 'LOVE FINDS A WAY."
But that's nonsense. R & J isnt about love at all. The real premise of R & J is: Kids get into serious shit when no one supervises them adequately. When the government and the village and family and friends and the kids themseves fail to act, bad things happen. So Mercutio ends up dead, Thibault is killed, Romeo dies, and Juliet dies. All of them kids. My premise must be correct because it accounts for all the principle action in the play. And kids are the principle players.

So a premise is a proposition that leads to a logical conclusion. All the principle action points to the premise.

The premise for your story might be: Relationships fail when there is no foundation of respect and honor. Or whatever.

You can form the premise in reverse by determining what the outcome is in each scene. But if the outcome in each scene is different the premise becomes very complex. In R & J most of the scenes involve kids brawling or dueling or taking poison or stabbing. Even the famous balcony scene has all the potential for violence if Romeo is caught with Juliet. Ditto for the Capulet party Romeo crashes. The kids are always unsupervised.

That's very interesting, thanks! You know, I'd agree with your defined premise of "Hottie", but I'd also submit that every bit of the piece is consistent with that premise, and that the two principals, Steve and Marcia, do in fact operating in that context...

 

[ninefe2dg]

Damn, Cut! blew me away.

You packed a lot into that brief little story: you depicted a rape in an admirably non-eroticised way, with some subtle subtext about the nature of sexual violence (the perp can't get hard when she's willing to have sex with him, and is only able to get aroused in the context of his violence against her), and your narrator, who retains her brittle quippiness through the assault, becomes utterly vulnerable and endearing at the end, during her online conversation with her friend. That adds a layer of depth to a story which, otherwise, might have read more like the stuck up whore got what was coming to her. For those of us who've read "Clueless," there's a lot of added poignancy, as we've gotten to see Isabelle as a "normal" girl, much easier to identify with than the jaded, prickly, proud porn star narrating this story.

Even though the narrative style is very similar to your other stories, I think it works particularly well, here.

My only real criticism of this story is one that's extremely subjective, but hey, what's a crit without a negative? It bothered me that all the bad people in this are people who make easy villains: the pornographer, the ugly little guy, and the sexual "deviant" (gay guy). It's not that I found the characters unbelievable, my criticism is more about the nature of representation: in Lord of the Rings, the good guys are all attractive (well, except for that dwarf with the gnarly beard, maybe), and the bad guys are all ugly. Male pedophiles who prey on male children are often conflated with "homosexuals," and pornographers tend to be portrayed as universally sexually predatory. So, I guess I just felt the bad guys fell too much into stereotypes of the kinds of men who rape. But again, that's more of my subjective lit crit rant than a criticism of the merits of the story as a story.

You might not be getting high votes on this piece, precisely for the reasons that I think make this story good: the rape isn't titillating, and it's a sad story.

You should be really proud of this one.

-V

Wow, high praise indeed. Thanks for reading the story, much less commenting on it...whoda thunk it? I'm asked for a non-consent piece, and I come up with a gay porn star, a dwarf, and a golf club.

I liked the ending, too. Glad you did as well. But it was my first and last foray into that category...I'm comfortably back in my safe "sappy" zone

I like that you point out I've done something "unwittingly"...I should try to be more aware of it as I'm writing. At the end I wanted Isabelle to desperately try to feel normal, and I'm glad that seemed to work.

This was also my "first person girl", and I was hoping I could do that without Isabelle becoming a stereotype...

Thanks again for reading and commenting, as always. I appreciate the encouragement!!

 

[tickledkitty]

I read "The Art Subject."

I felt Lelanni take her hands in mine

Shouldn't it be I felt Lelanni take my hands in hers or just Lelanni took my hands in hers...?

You used a lot of exclamation points throughout. This kind of bugged me.

We spent a great deal of time together. Liked a lot of the same movies, and music, too.

When I read this paragraph through the first time, I thought you were still talking about the time they spent together at the wedding. I think you should make clear here that you mean on campus, later on, after the wedding was over with.

As she stepped closer to me, my body shivered in anticipation of her hands clasping around the back of my neck, and feeling the fullness of her lips press against mine.

This is pretty specific. I think in this situation you would be anticipating being touched, but you wouldn't know exactly what you were anticipating. I may just be nitpicking here.

You kind of repeat certain words. Like you said "dark nipples" a few times. I think you only need to say it once to get the point across. Then you said "lucious pussy" then "delicious pussy" a paragraph or two later. Although that's not really a repeat, it's pretty close.

"I'm about to come, yes, Steve. Oh, I want you inside me now." I wanted to make her delirious, continuing to massage her clit was my nose as I continued to tongue-fuck her delicious pussy. Her dark brown nipplies were rock hard as she buried her face into my shoulder, letting out a small scream and biting my neck.

This is confusing. You're massaging her clit with your nose and tongue fucking her pussy, but then she bites your shoulder? How is that possible?

Overall, this is a fun little story. I might have liked them to be a little more passionate. They didn't seem to be that involved in the sex. Maybe because the snappy reparte continued throughout? Not real sure. Good job though.

 

[ninefe2dg]

This is confusing. You're massaging her clit with your nose and tongue fucking her pussy, but then she bites your shoulder? How is that possible?

Maybe if she's Houdini! lol...good catch. In fact, all your points are quite helpful, including the one you said might be nitpicky...thanks for reading!

Overall, this is a fun little story. I might have liked them to be a little more passionate. They didn't seem to be that involved in the sex. Maybe because the snappy reparte continued throughout? Not real sure. Good job though.

I think I need to decide whether I REALLY want to learn how to write a steamy get you hard/get you wet sex scene, or maybe even ease back and be an R-rated kind of guy. I'm more comfortable with the human interaction, the romance, the sexual tension, much more so than the sex itself. Your comments are not inconsistent with others I've heard. To me their continued reparte during sex was meant to indicate their comfort with one another, but I see how it can undermine whatever underlying "hotness" there might be...as I said, I just need to decide what direction I should go in...

Thanks so much for reading and commenting!

 

[DeeZire]

I read 'Cut' and liked it. There was some very clever writing there. I thought the female character's attitude was kind of 'guy-ish', but I can see how, in that business, she could be pretty hard-nosed. It also seemed the tenses kept shifting around? I did like the rapid-fire dialogue, but it almost read like a comic book. (Actually, I haven't seen a comic book in decades. I guess I'm thinking of that black & white gangster movie - 'Sin City'.)

It was a thought provoking piece, and that's the important thing. Nice work.

 

[tickledkitty]

Maybe if she's Houdini! lol...good catch. In fact, all your points are quite helpful, including the one you said might be nitpicky...thanks for reading!



I think I need to decide whether I REALLY want to learn how to write a steamy get you hard/get you wet sex scene, or maybe even ease back and be an R-rated kind of guy. I'm more comfortable with the human interaction, the romance, the sexual tension, much more so than the sex itself. Your comments are not inconsistent with others I've heard. To me their continued reparte during sex was meant to indicate their comfort with one another, but I see how it can undermine whatever underlying "hotness" there might be...as I said, I just need to decide what direction I should go in...

Thanks so much for reading and commenting!

You're very welcome. Maybe you just need more practice?

 

[ninefe2dg]

I read 'Cut' and liked it. There was some very clever writing there. I thought the female character's attitude was kind of 'guy-ish', but I can see how, in that business, she could be pretty hard-nosed. It also seemed the tenses kept shifting around? I did like the rapid-fire dialogue, but it almost read like a comic book. (Actually, I haven't seen a comic book in decades. I guess I'm thinking of that black & white gangster movie - 'Sin City'.)

It was a thought provoking piece, and that's the important thing. Nice work.

Wow, thanks! Perhaps I underestimated it after I wrote it. I try to keep the pace going with the dialogue and glad that worked.

The tenses may be a bit off, and I can check that. I'm interested in what specifically was "guy-ish" about the character...that wasn't intended, thanks!

 

[ninefe2dg]

You're very welcome. Maybe you just need more practice?

Perhaps so, both away from and on the computer screen

OK, in my next story, I'll give it my best shot, I really will! Thanks again!

 

[DeeZire]

I'm interested in what specifically was "guy-ish" about the character...that wasn't intended, thanks!

I guess it was the wise-ass attitude, the way the lady cold shrug off what was happening to her like a football player would shrug off a late hit. That's the comic book style I was talking about, where nothing phazes the hero. I've done the same thing myself, making the 'tone' a little too clever for real life. It makes the reader question the sincerity of the character.

My favorite part of the story is at the end, when she's enjoying being someone else as a means to escape her life. Perhaps if that angle was more the focus of the story, it would make her a more sympathetic character.

 

[ninefe2dg]

I guess it was the wise-ass attitude, the way the lady cold shrug off what was happening to her like a football player would shrug off a late hit. That's the comic book style I was talking about, where nothing phazes the hero. I've done the same thing myself, making the 'tone' a little too clever for real life. It makes the reader question the sincerity of the character.

My favorite part of the story is at the end, when she's enjoying being someone else as a means to escape her life. Perhaps if that angle was more the focus of the story, it would make her a more sympathetic character.

I can see that, re the attitude. But I suppose in fiction we can, and sometimes do, stretch reality a bit. "Snappy reparte" doesn't happen as often in the real world, where were often times left with "Gosh if only I'd have said THAT"

I'm glad you liked the end. I liked that part as well. Couldn't really make it a focus though, wanted it to be a bit of a twist...

Hey, if anyone wants to take on "7th Green at Pebble" I'd be much obliged. It was my fave story to write, at the very least!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

NINEFE2DG

"and pornographers tend to be portrayed as universally sexually predatory."

Pornographers are sexually predatory. It's our chief appeal.

Last night I got an email from a younger woman (41) who reviewed my profile and was considering making a friend request. But she wanted more information about me.

I emailed her and told her I'm a pornographer.

She then made the friend request and emailed me wanting to IM.

What we lack is a distinctive costume and an insolent/arrogant attitude.

I mean, we might be America's next superstars if we handle it right.

 

[DeeZire]

I suppose in fiction we can, and sometimes do, stretch reality a bit.

My two favorite authors for stretching reality are T.C. Boyle and Stacy Richter. They both do short stories, most of which would be considered way out of the mainstream. While it's not erotica, it's great writing, making the unbelievable very believable, and very endearing.

Stacy Richter is a local gal. Her first collection, 'My Date With Satan' was on Scribner, her second, (not yet in paperback) 'Twin Study', is on Counterpoint, but I got it at Barnes & Noble, so I'm assuming it's nationally distributed. She's also been published in Playboy, and other prestigious rags.

I bring up these two authors because you're writing on 'Cut' leans in their direction, and I suspect you might enjoy their work.