Received an interesting E-Mail today.

[SeaCat]

I received an interesting E-Mail today. It was sent from my fathers computer but it was from the son of one of my Cousins.

Sasha is a young German who has come over to visit with family and improve his English. After visiting with my parents for two weeks and going through things like the Fourth and my fathers illness he had several questions. My parents told him to write to me and ask the questions.

The First question he had dealt with the Fourth of July and what it meant. That was fairly easy to answer.

Then he started asking questions that were harder to answer. One question was something that I have often asked and never received an answer that satisfied me. He asked why we showed so little nudity yet had no problem with showing graphic violence.

How in the world could I answer this? I understood what he was asking and yet I have no real answer.

I wrote him a letter that took up three pages on M.S. Works trying to explain that in my culture violence is accepted and yet sex and sexuality wasn't. I wrote to him trying to explain that showing someone being killed is not a big deal and yet showing a bit of skin will permanantly warp children. I finally explained that I had absolutely no idea. I explained that my culture was warped in some respects and it would take more knowledge than I have to even try to explain it.

How would you have tried to explain this?

Cat

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I couldn't have explained that. I have always wondered, and yet have no idea why we are that way either.

 

[SnoopDog]

Being both German and a student of American Culture, I often wondered myself why there seem to be these weird cultural differences.

Over here in Germany it's the other way round. Of course there are pretty strict laws concerning hardcore sex and pornography but then there's also little debate over nudity. Over here bare breasts on TV in the evening is no issue at all. But when it comes to violence every movie is chopped and re-cut just so that graphic violence and even more psychological violence is banished.

Honestly, I have no answer other than "it's in our past". Maybe these things are grown on one's own cultural past and heritage. In the end US society and culture is heavily based on the idea of acting out violence and while there might have been similar ideas in Germany our very own history of wars and abominable violence may have led to a rather harsh restriction of violence.

Then of course whenever these things are repressed there almost automatically will be subcultural counterforce. Just think about the huge porn industry in the US and violence and/or fetish subcultures in Germany.

In the end there might be no real answer to this but I think it is necessary to state that there is also no right-or-wrong answer to the question which is the better way. In the end both violence and sex may do harm as well as the repression thereof.



Snoopy

 

[rgraham666]

It's history.

The anti-nudity and sex thing is the strong Puritan strain that has always run in American thinking. Sex is bad, most people have sex naked, therefore naked is bad.

America's love of violence is also part of its history. It won its independence through violence, expanded through violence, succeeded through violence. An American often expresses their individuality through violence, that's why discussing guns so often ends up with some people foaming.

It's history.

 

[only_more_so]

It's history.

The anti-nudity and sex thing is the strong Puritan strain that has always run in American thinking. Sex is bad, most people have sex naked, therefore naked is bad.

America's love of violence is also part of its history. It won its independence through violence, expanded through violence, succeeded through violence. An American often expresses their individuality through violence, that's why discussing guns so often ends up with some people foaming.

It's history.

For once I actually kind of agree with you.

America, more than perhaps any other country, was founded and defined by wars. The revolutionary war, the war of 1812, the Civil War, etc. Then there was all the frontier violence, against the Indians, against outlaws, etc. Prohibition Era violence was also well known, and was concurrent with the introduction of the Hays Morality Code. So to tell the story of the United States a certain amount of violence is required.

Through the years, both nudity and violence has become more accepted. But violence had a significant head start.

Anyway, I would suggest reading about the Hayes Morality Code and thinking about movies and television made in the 50's. If you extrapolate from there it becomes clear why the US is where we are.

 

[jomar]

It is upside down, isn't it? There is all that history, plus the gun loving religious conservatives have good lobbyists.

 

[Stella_Omega]

For once I actually kind of agree with you.

America, more than perhaps any other country, was founded and defined by wars. The revolutionary war, the war of 1812, the Civil War, etc. Then there was all the frontier violence, against the Indians, against outlaws, etc. Prohibition Era violence was also well known, and was concurrent with the introduction of the Hays Morality Code. So to tell the story of the United States a certain amount of violence is required.

Through the years, both nudity and violence has become more accepted. But violence had a significant head start.

Anyway, I would suggest reading about the Hayes Morality Code and thinking about movies and television made in the 50's. If you extrapolate from there it becomes clear why the US is where we are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production_Code is an excellent overview.

 

[rgraham666]

One thing though, America hasn't suffered enough by violence to think about giving it up.

With the exception of The South in the Civil War, America has never suffered the way Europe has. It hasn't had its cities destroyed, its farms burnt, its people starving, to start thinking, "Maybe we should find another way to solve our problems."

Mind you, Europe had to do that several times before they wised up.

 

[only_more_so]

One thing though, America hasn't suffered enough by violence to think about giving it up.

With the exception of The South in the Civil War, America has never suffered the way Europe has. It hasn't had its cities destroyed, its farms burnt, its people starving, to start thinking, "Maybe we should find another way to solve our problems."

Mind you, Europe had to do that several times before they wised up.

Um... what about the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812? For a real eye opener, look up what happened to the guys who signed the declaration of independence.

Sure WWI and WWII didn't happen in our backyard, but there has been plenty of dying on the US soil.

Also, if you consider violence in general, I would say we've seen more than enough to be sick of it by now.

 

[rgraham666]

Um, both those wars were fought by rather small armies is closely defined circumstances.

To give you an example of what happened in Europe, well, I was born there, in Germany. My mom told me that the year I was born, 1955, they were still carting the rubble away.

Hamburg for example had forty thousand people killed in a single night. And Dresden the same.

And we can't forget what happened to England during the Blitz. Or Rotterdam.

Then there's Russia who lost 10% of their population in that war. The front rolled over Kharkov four times during that war. Three hundred thousand people lived there at the start. Thirty six at the end.

We here in North America have never experienced anything like it.

Also, here in North America violence is background noise. We have, for the most part, simply accepted that's the way it is. And many argue that's the way it should be.

 

[3113]

America has been something of an isolated country (very much so prior to airplanes and internet) and religiously dominated by religions that were mostly Puritan. What this means is that we have never had fountains with statues of naked women on every street corner or decorating ancient buildings, nor paintings of naked men and women on our church ceilings. Consider: America's first colony, Jamestown, was 400 years ago in 1607. That was 100 years after Michelangelo had carved out a naked statue of David and painted naked people on the ceiling of a church. The U.S. became a country some 232 years ago in 1776, that was nearly 300 years after all those Renaissance artists had created their nudie pictures.

And what was the original aesthetic of the early U.S., Puritans and post puritans? Very spartan, clean lines, no images on the church walls, and statues that were usually busts of great men. Paintings of Washington crossing the Delaware. We did not have statues or paintings of nudity everywhere and anywhere--not even in the next country over--for people to see and take for granted as they were growing up. In Europe, they did and still do. It's old hat, a given.

Not so in the U.S. of A. Most homes had very little or no art. Most streets, churches and buildings had very little or no art and those which did have art had fully clothed portraits and such. This is what Americans grew up with--and it stayed that way for a long time. Still is that way to some extent.

What we did have (and still do have), however, was a frontier mentality where carrying a gun was a necessity, and stories of daring do and heroics usually involved shooting someone or something--like a bear. You either had to shoot the indians or shoot your food or you had to shoot the mountain lion. And when it came to the point where a quintessentially, popular American culture finally came into being, it took the form of the Wild West, with gunslingers as the heroes.

Men with guns are our erotica, if you will.

In a way, America, as a culture has long been stuck in a perpetual, male childhood--where guns and violence are cool, and girls are icky (or just, well, girls!), and the best sexual thrill (outside of shooting a gun) is to glimpse a naked lady through a keyhole--because seeing her up close and personal is scary not titillating.

Europe, where there were old cities with no need for anyone to carry a gun to shoot anything--not food or mountain lions or bandits, where churches and homes had paintings of naked Adams & Eves, and public statues of naked men and women are there for anyone to see, got a different value system.

 

[only_more_so]

Drat! When I originally posted to this thread, and actually the second time, I meant to include something about American art. But it seems I edited them out of my posts, and you beat me to it 3113.

Although, it should be noted that the two modern "art" forms were invented and developed in the US, namely movies and television.

America has been something of an isolated country (very much so prior to airplanes and internet) and religiously dominated by religions that were mostly Puritan. What this means is that we have never had fountains with statues of naked women on every street corner or decorating ancient buildings, nor paintings of naked men and women on our church ceilings. Consider: America's first colony, Jamestown, was 400 years ago in 1607. That was 100 years after Michelangelo had carved out a naked statue of David and painted naked people on the ceiling of a church. The U.S. became a country some 232 years ago in 1776, that was nearly 300 years after all those Renaissance artists had created their nudie pictures.

And what was the original aesthetic of the early U.S., Puritans and post puritans? Very spartan, clean lines, no images on the church walls, and statues that were usually busts of great men. Paintings of Washington crossing the Delaware. We did not have statues or paintings of nudity everywhere and anywhere--not even in the next country over--for people to see and take for granted as they were growing up. In Europe, they did and still do. It's old hat, a given.

Not so in the U.S. of A. Most homes had very little or no art. Most streets, churches and buildings had very little or no art and those which did have art had fully clothed portraits and such. This is what Americans grew up with--and it stayed that way for a long time. Still is that way to some extent.

What we did have (and still do have), however, was a frontier mentality where carrying a gun was a necessity, and stories of daring do and heroics usually involved shooting someone or something--like a bear. You either had to shoot the indians or shoot your food or you had to shoot the mountain lion. And when it came to the point where a quintessentially, popular American culture finally came into being, it took the form of the Wild West, with gunslingers as the heroes.

Men with guns are our erotica, if you will.

In a way, America, as a culture has long been stuck in a perpetual, male childhood--where guns and violence are cool, and girls are icky (or just, well, girls!), and the best sexual thrill (outside of shooting a gun) is to glimpse a naked lady through a keyhole--because seeing her up close and personal is scary not titillating.

Europe, where there were old cities with no need for anyone to carry a gun to shoot anything--not food or mountain lions or bandits, where churches and homes had paintings of naked Adams & Eves, and public statues of naked men and women are there for anyone to see, got a different value system.