Really, Really Bad News For The Left

[zeb1094]

REALLY, REALLY BAD NEWS FOR THE LEFT

The federal prosecutor investigating the Valerie Plame case has now officially announced that, despite the desires of liberals and Democrats, Karl Rove will NOT be indicted and charged with any crime.

Be kind to a liberal today. They'll be in mourning.

 

[neonlyte]

It's good news for the left.

It saves an awful lot of trees being pulped for no purpose, to produce countless tons of documents that no one will read. I only feel sorry for the low paid Court Janitors who will be missing out on 'fees' for slipping information to the media circle.

 

[rgraham666]

So, zeb. Let's assume Gore had won the election and his chief of staff had blown the cover of a CIA operative.

What would your opinion be then?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

It's good news for the left.

It saves an awful lot of trees being pulped for no purpose, to produce countless tons of documents that no one will read. I only feel sorry for the low paid Court Janitors who will be missing out on 'fees' for slipping information to the media circle.

*snort*

 

[zeb1094]

So, zeb. Let's assume Gore had won the election and his chief of staff had blown the cover of a CIA operative.

What would your opinion be then?

Well let's see....

Was she a CIA operative? NO.

Was her cover blown? NO.

Was there a crime committed? NO.

Doesn't matter who it was to me or who was in power(?) so it would be the same opinion as it is now.

 

[rgraham666]

Well let's see....

Was she a CIA operative? NO.

Was her cover blown? NO.

Was there a crime committed? NO.

Doesn't matter who it was to me or who was in power(?) so it would be the same opinion as it is now.

She wasn't working for the CIA? News to me.

Thanks for enlightening me, zeb.

 

[zeb1094]

She wasn't working for the CIA? News to me.

Thanks for enlightening me, zeb.

I didn't say she wasn't working for the CIA, I said she was not an "operative". Not everyone who works for the CIA is an "operative". She was a clerk or something similar working for them. And if you are not an "operative" how can your cover be blown?

 

[R. Richard]

So, zeb. Let's assume Gore had won the election and his chief of staff had blown the cover of a CIA operative.

What would your opinion be then?

From what information I have been able to glean from the newpapers and the Internet, the most likely person who "outed" the CIA agent was her own husband. Her husband has now more or less admitted the fact. The conclusion is that the fuss over the "outing" of the agent was a political attack.

Incidently, the CIA agent who was "outed" was not an undercover CIA agent. An agent must be an undercover agent for the "outing" to be a crime.

 

[R. Richard]

News Flash:

Porter Goss "outed" as new head of the CIA! The White House and the media have now "outed" Porter Goss as the new head of the CIA. Shame!

 

[Pure]

hi zeb,

you've got those human events talking points down cold!

zeb said,
Was she a CIA operative? NO.

Was her cover blown? NO.

Was there a crime committed? NO.

Doesn't matter who it was to me or who was in power(?) so it would be the same opinion as it is now.



kindly read the bolded clause in the story you yourself posted!






No charges for W.House aide Rove in CIA leak case
Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:38am ET




WASHINGTON (Reuters) - White House aide Karl Rove, U.S. President George W. Bush's top political adviser, will not be charged in the CIA leak case, his attorney confirmed on Tuesday.

"On June 12, 2006, special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald formally advised us that he does not anticipate seeking charges against Karl Rove," Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, said in a statement.

The question of what would happen to Rove, one of Washington's most powerful and polarizing figures, in the CIA case had been a major topic in Washington since Lewis Libby, a former top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney, was indicted on charges relating to the leak of a CIA covert operative's name.

"We believe the special counsel's decision should put an end to the baseless speculation about Mr. Rove's conduct," Luskin said.

 

[zeb1094]

you've got those human events talking points down cold!

zeb said,
Was she a CIA operative? NO.

Was her cover blown? NO.

Was there a crime committed? NO.

Doesn't matter who it was to me or who was in power(?) so it would be the same opinion as it is now.



kindly read the bolded clause in the story you yourself posted!






No charges for W.House aide Rove in CIA leak case
Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:38am ET




WASHINGTON (Reuters) - White House aide Karl Rove, U.S. President George W. Bush's top political adviser, will not be charged in the CIA leak case, his attorney confirmed on Tuesday.

"On June 12, 2006, special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald formally advised us that he does not anticipate seeking charges against Karl Rove," Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, said in a statement.

The question of what would happen to Rove, one of Washington's most powerful and polarizing figures, in the CIA case had been a major topic in Washington since Lewis Libby, a former top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney, was indicted on charges relating to the leak of a CIA covert operative's name.

"We believe the special counsel's decision should put an end to the baseless speculation about Mr. Rove's conduct," Luskin said.

I have read else where that she wasn't a covert agent. And Libby was indicted for lieing to a Senate Hearing.

 

[Guest]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/wilson.cia/

Bush welcomes probe of CIA leak
'I want to know the truth,' president tells reporters

Wednesday, February 11, 2004 Posted: 1:46 AM EST (0646 GMT)

Operative: A CIA employee who gathers intelligence covertly, either in the field or from agency headquarters in Langley, Virginia. The CIA calls the job "clandestine services officer."

Agent: Usually a foreign national contracted to gather intelligence in the field for the CIA.

Analyst: A CIA employee who evaluates intelligence gathered by operatives and agents; not a covert position.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush said Tuesday he welcomes a Justice Department investigation into who revealed the classified identity of a CIA operative.

"If there's a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is," Bush told reporters at an impromptu news conference during a fund-raising stop in Chicago, Illinois. "If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of.

"I welcome the investigation. I am absolutely confident the Justice Department will do a good job.

"I want to know the truth," the president continued. "Leaks of classified information are bad things."

He added that he did not know of "anybody in my administration who leaked classified information."

Bush said he has told his administration to cooperate fully with the investigation and asked anyone with knowledge of the case to come forward.

U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft said Tuesday the criminal investigation was launched Friday and the White House and CIA were asked to preserve all documents that might be relevant to the probe.

"The criminal division of the Department of Justice, with the assistance of the FBI as the lead investigative agency, opened a full investigation," Ashcroft said.

He said the prosecutors and agents conducting the probe are "career professionals with extensive experience in handling matters involving national security."

A department official said the decision to launch the probe was made by John Dion, a career attorney and head of the counterespionage section of the criminal division, not by a political appointee.

In a July 14 column, syndicated newspaper journalist and CNN contributor Robert Novak named former Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, as a CIA operative on weapons of mass destruction, citing Bush administration sources.

Novak said Monday on CNN's "Crossfire" that he learned Plame's identity from two senior Bush administration officials in the course of researching an article about Wilson. He denied that anyone in the administration called him to leak the information.

But sources told CNN that Novak was among as many as six journalists who were told Plame's name. The Washington Post reported Sunday that the disclosure came from two top administration officials.

Novak said a confidential source at the CIA told him Plame was "an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operative and not in charge of undercover operatives." (Full story)

Sources told CNN that Plame works in the CIA's Directorate of Operations -- the part of the agency in charge of spying -- and worked in the field for many years as an undercover officer.

"If she were only an analyst, not an operative, we would not have filed a crimes report" with the Justice Department, a senior intelligence official said.

Bush spokesman Scott McClellan said the White House was told of the probe Monday night.

White House counsel Alberto Gonzales issued two memos Tuesday directing staff members to preserve all materials such as e-mails and phone logs that might be related to the leak. (Gonzales' first memo)

The second memo specifically mentioned records related to Wilson and his wife, as well as to any contacts with Novak and two members of Newsday's Washington bureau, Knut Royce and Timothy Phelps, who reported in the Long Island, New York, newspaper July 22 that an intelligence official had confirmed Plame's position at the CIA. (Gonzales' second memo)

Newsday Editor Howard Schneider told The Associated Press on Tuesday evening that his newspaper has had no contact with the White House or Justice Department about the memo.

He said, however, that Newsday was probably singled out because the newspaper was the first to report that a CIA officer revealed in the Novak column was an undercover operative.
Alleged Niger connection

Wilson visited Niger in early 2002 on behalf of the CIA to investigate a British report alleging Iraq attempted to buy yellowcake -- uranium ore -- to develop nuclear weapons. Wilson reported finding no evidence to support the allegation.

Novak reported in his July column that Plame suggested her husband for the Niger visit, but officials told CNN Tuesday she had nothing to do with the decision. "She did not recommend him. It was not her idea to send him," said one official.

Bush cited the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium connection in his 2003 State of the Union address as part of the rationale for going to war with Iraq.

Wilson wrote about his Niger visit in an op-ed piece in July for The New York Times that cast further doubt on the British report, which had been discredited after U.N. weapons inspectors found it was based at least in part on forged documents.

Although Bush has since backed off the State of the Union statement, Wilson's revelations helped fuel allegations the Bush administration exaggerated the threat posed by Iraq before the war.

Joseph Wilson said he believes the White House is behind the leak of the identity of his wife as a CIA operative.

A retired career diplomat, Wilson was acting U.S. ambassador to Iraq during the first Gulf War and later was ambassador to Gabon. One of his first postings as a diplomat was to Niger in 1976.

In the late 1990s, he was a special assistant to President Clinton and served on the National Security Council as an expert on African affairs.

Wilson has said he believes the White House is behind the leak of his wife's identity, an act of retribution for his revelations on the Niger report.

According to the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, it is a federal crime to reveal the identity of a covert agent. Anyone convicted of doing so could be sentenced to as many as 10 years in prison and up to a $50,000 fine, depending upon how the source obtained the information.
Call for special counsel

Democrats stepped up calls Tuesday for a special counsel to investigate the leak.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California and others said the accusation that the leak may have come from senior administration officials created a conflict of interest with the Bush-appointed attorney general and his staff.

"If you look at the chain of command, it goes right up to the attorney general," said Sen. Charles Schumer of New York. "And the attorney general is a close political ally of the president."

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, a Republican of Texas, scoffed at the Democrats' call for an independent counsel, saying the idea "must be in [Democrats'] political handbook."

Justice Department officials would not comment on whether a special counsel had been ruled out, but one senior official said, "No door has been closed."

 

[Guest]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/28/leak.probe/

Cheney's top aide indicted; CIA leak probe continues
Libby charged on 5 counts, confident he'll be 'totally exonerated'

Saturday, October 29, 2005; Posted: 6:50 a.m. EDT (10:50 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The CIA leak investigation is "not over," special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said Friday after announcing charges against I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff.

Fitzgerald said he will be keeping the investigation "open to consider other matters." But, he said, "the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is concluded."

Libby resigned Friday after a federal grand jury indicted him on five charges related to the leak probe: one count of obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury and two counts of making false statements. (Charges explained)

Libby said in a written statement he is "confident that at the end of this process I will be completely and totally exonerated."

"Today is a sad day for me and my family," he said.

"I have spent much of my career working on behalf of the American people," he said. "I have conducted my responsibilities honorably and truthfully."

During an afternoon news conference, Fitzgerald outlined what he called the "very serious" charges. (See video of Fitzgerald outlining charges -- 13:50)

"A CIA officer's name was blown, and there was a leak, and we needed to figure out how that happened, who did it, why, whether a crime was committed, whether we could prove it, whether we should prove it," he said.

"Given national security was at stake, it was especially important that we find out accurate facts."

The charges against a high-ranking official "show the world that this is a country that takes its law seriously," Fitzgerald said.

Libby was charged with lying to FBI agents and to the grand jury about conversations with reporters.

Libby testified that he heard CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity from Tim Russert of NBC News when, in fact, he learned of Plame's identify from other government officials, the indictment alleged.

"Mr. Libby's story that he was at the tail end of a chain of phone calls, passing on from one reporter what he heard from another, was not true," Fitzgerald said.

"He was at the beginning of the chain of phone calls -- the first official to disclose this information outside the government to a reporter -- and then he lied about it afterwards, under oath and repeatedly," he said.

Libby's attorney Joseph Tate said Fitzgerald concluded Libby did not violate a law that makes it a crime to intentionally disclose the identity of a covert agent. (Watch as news of Libby's resignation breaks -- :52)

Tate said in a written statement that Libby is innocent, and he asked that the public not judge the case until a verdict is returned.

He said he and his client were "dismayed" and "surprised" at the charges, and accused Fitzgerald of turning "alleged inconsistencies in Mr. Libby's recollection and those of others" into charges.
White House 'saddened'

Libby discussed Plame's identity in the summer of 2003 with reporters after her husband, diplomat Joseph Wilson, wrote a highly critical op-ed column in The New York Times that challenged intelligence used as part of the rationale for the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

Descriptions of those conversations by reporters say Libby criticized the CIA and discussed Plame's identity in part to cast doubt on Wilson's accounts in the Times and elsewhere, the indictment alleged.

The 22-page indictment said Libby -- before discussing Wilson and Plame with reporters -- discussed them with several people in the White House, identifying them only by title and alleging no wrongdoing on their part.

They included Cheney, then-press secretary Ari Fleischer, an undersecretary of state identified by two sources as Marc Grossman and a senior White House official referred to as "Official A." Two other sources close to the probe said "Official A" is Karl Rove, President Bush's top political adviser.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, said the charges "suggest a senior White House aide put politics ahead of our national security and the rule of law."

These are so far the only indictments in a nearly two-year investigation. If convicted on all counts, Libby, 55, could face a maximum of 30 years in prison and a $1.25 million fine, Fitzgerald said.

Fitzgerald said Libby would not be arrested and refused to discuss any possible plea deal. Court officials said Judge Reggie B. Walton has been assigned to the case.

The indictment comes at a time of political difficulty for the White House and Republicans, with the president's approval ratings at a low ebb.

Bush on Friday called the legal proceedings "serious" and said he accepted the resignation of Libby, who also was an assistant to the president and a national security adviser to Cheney. (Watch Bush's reaction -- 1:08)

Speaking to reporters at the White House, the president said Libby has "sacrificed much in his service to this country," and he cautioned that "in our system each individual is presumed innocent and entitled to due process."

"While we're all saddened by today's news, we remain wholly focused on the many issues and opportunities facing this country," he said.

Cheney said in a statement that he accepted Libby's resignation "with deep regret," calling him "one of the most capable and talented individuals I have ever known."

Rove, who testified four times before the grand jury, was not indicted Friday, but sources said he is not out of legal jeopardy. (Full story)

Rove's attorney Robert Luskin issued a statement Friday in which he said Fitzgerald "advised Mr. Rove that he has made no decision about whether or not to bring charges."

"We are confident that when the special counsel finishes his work, he will conclude that Mr. Rove has done nothing wrong," Luskin's statement said.

The event that triggered the legal and political quagmire was a syndicated newspaper column by Robert Novak, published on July 14, 2003, about Wilson.

Before Novak's column, Plame's role as a CIA officer was classified and "not widely known" outside the intelligence community, Fitzgerald said.

In a written statement, Wilson on Friday called the indictments an "important step in the criminal justice process."

"It is certainly not a day to celebrate," Wilson said, adding that he and his wife "are confident that justice will be done."

"Revealing my wife Valerie's secret CIA identity was very wrong and harmful to our nation," Wilson said. "I feel that my family was attacked for my speaking the truth about the events that led our country to war."

 

[Guest]

REALLY, REALLY BAD NEWS FOR THE LEFT

The federal prosecutor investigating the Valerie Plame case has now officially announced that, despite the desires of liberals and Democrats, Karl Rove will NOT be indicted and charged with any crime.

Be kind to a liberal today. They'll be in mourning.

Zeb?

With all good Christian love and fellowship - Fuck off.


Edited to add - You are gleeful about this? To the point of sticking it to "liberals"?

Didn't realize you were an amicus clone. Thought you were able to think for yourself.

 

[3113]

REALLY, REALLY BAD NEWS FOR THE LEFT

The federal prosecutor investigating the Valerie Plame case has now officially announced that, despite the desires of liberals and Democrats, Karl Rove will NOT be indicted and charged with any crime.

Be kind to a liberal today. They'll be in mourning.

What goes around comes around Zeb. We all need to be very careful about posting such snide comments. They may come back to haunt us--again and again and again.

 

[zeb1094]

Zeb?

With all good Christian love and fellowship - Fuck off.


Edited to add - You are gleeful about this? To the point of sticking it to "liberals"?

Didn't realize you were an amicus clone. Thought you were able to think for yourself.

Oh I am, I disagree with HIM on many subjects...

I am also no fan of the Republican party, as they are becoming more like the Democratic party every day. Both parties are now to busy trying to smear each other to notice that this great country of ours is becoming more and more out of touch with it's leaders. It would seem that none of them really care about the people they are supposed to represent, only that they stay in power and have us, the really spine of this country, dependant on them for everything we get.

 

[Guest]

Zeb,

You state :

The federal prosecutor investigating the Valerie Plame case has now officially announced that, despite the desires of liberals and Democrats, Karl Rove will NOT be indicted and charged with any crime.

That isn't true, as the source you linked to states clearly:

White House aide Karl Rove, U.S. President George W. Bush's top political adviser, will not be charged in the CIA leak case, his attorney confirmed on Tuesday.

It is Rove's attorney making this assertion, based on a letter he says he received from Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald, as far as I can find, has made no public statement one way or another.

I'm curious, why didn't Rove's attorney publish the letter? What exactly does it say, word for word?

As 3113 points out though, we all need to wait on this matter. Gleefully making any statements, no matter what side you are on, "may come back to haunt us".

 

[zeb1094]

Y'all may want to take a closer look at my sig line.

Just sayin' is all.

I'll leave it big for those of you who may have missed it the first time!

 

[Guest]

Y'all may want to take a closer look at my sig line.

Just sayin' is all.

I'll leave it big for those of you who may have missed it the first time!

Hmm, you found out my dirty secret. I don't read signatures. To many have gotten to big--they are often bigger than the post itself.

I'll look at a signature for a link to the person's stories if they somehow compel me to do so.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

AMERICA AS WE KNOW IT IS DEAD

Mourn her, love her memory, but the Republicans have irrevocably killed her. There is no ifs and or buts about it. People are celebrating the nonpunishment of direct and unequivocal treason because it aids their own party. Party interests have on this day beaten every other item on the map. If I was a Republican, if I was Colly I would be sobbing not cheering. This precedent does not bode well. It is not a case of slipping out of a Liberal attack, it's stating that as long as one party controls the branches, they can do whatever they want and are above reproach. Democracy on this day is officially dead. America is officially dead.

Oh for the record. Every single liberal source on the planet has stated Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, an undercover operative. Every impartial and slightly conservative source also states that. George Bush and Dick Cheney before they were indicted also agreed that she was an operative, an undercover operative and that what occurred was a crime. Before damage control in the Republican party, every source in the world stated what was truth.

Once the right comprehended what this act meant, then the "doubt" began to appear. And only right-wing sources stated it as doubt or tried to divorce her completely from the CIA organization entirely. There is no ifs ands or buts. She was CIA, she was an operative, her cover was important.

Just because our justice system is broken doesn't mean that the Republicans can take back what they themselves knew and said at the very beginning. What everyone knows. And if you think you can "believe" your way out of supporting a party who figures treason is an acceptable tactic of ratfucking (Nixon's dirty tricks) then I seriously doubt you have a single patriotic bone or moral bone in your body.

I'm sorry, but this shit, this isn't right and it doesn't come down to left or right. If the most leftist president, Super Jesus committed this crime, I would also be calling for his public execution and I would damn any liberal with the blindness to still give their bankrupt party support.

But that's impossible in the world of two-party isn't it. If one party becomes extreme then the impression is both are extreme and our loyalty is to party before country. We've played like this for far too long. Now my side question is when does the revolution begin?

 

[zeb1094]

Hmm, you found out my dirty secret. I don't read signatures. To many have gotten to big--they are often bigger than the post itself.

I'll look at a signature for a link to the person's stories if they somehow compel me to do so.

The disclaimer has been there since I started posting, so be fore warned. Unless you know what I say to be a confirmation of your beliefs don't believe a word I say.

This of course only applies to political threads.

ETA: I may have mistyped the above statement...what it should say is:

Unless you know what I say is the truth or you belive to be the truth then don't belive a word I say!

 

[Guest]

The disclaimer has been there since I started posting, so be fore warned. Unless you know what I say to be a confirmation of your beliefs don't believe a word I say.

This of course only applies to political threads.

What horseshit. And a complete waste of our time.

I'll never again read anything you post, then.

 

[zeb1094]

AMERICA AS WE KNOW IT IS DEAD

Mourn her, love her memory, but the Republicans have irrevocably killed her. There is no ifs and or buts about it. People are celebrating the nonpunishment of direct and unequivocal treason because it aids their own party. Party interests have on this day beaten every other item on the map. If I was a Republican, if I was Colly I would be sobbing not cheering. This precedent does not bode well. It is not a case of slipping out of a Liberal attack, it's stating that as long as one party controls the branches, they can do whatever they want and are above reproach. Democracy on this day is officially dead. America is officially dead.

Oh for the record. Every single liberal source on the planet has stated Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, an undercover operative. Every impartial and slightly conservative source also states that. George Bush and Dick Cheney before they were indicted also agreed that she was an operative, an undercover operative and that what occurred was a crime. Before damage control in the Republican party, every source in the world stated what was truth.

Once the right comprehended what this act meant, then the "doubt" began to appear. And only right-wing sources stated it as doubt or tried to divorce her completely from the CIA organization entirely. There is no ifs ands or buts. She was CIA, she was an operative, her cover was important.

Just because our justice system is broken doesn't mean that the Republicans can take back what they themselves knew and said at the very beginning. What everyone knows. And if you think you can "believe" your way out of supporting a party who figures treason is an acceptable tactic of ratfucking (Nixon's dirty tricks) then I seriously doubt you have a single patriotic bone or moral bone in your body.

I'm sorry, but this shit, this isn't right and it doesn't come down to left or right. If the most leftist president, Super Jesus committed this crime, I would also be calling for his public execution and I would damn any liberal with the blindness to still give their bankrupt party support.

But that's impossible in the world of two-party isn't it. If one party becomes extreme then the impression is both are extreme and our loyalty is to party before country. We've played like this for far too long. Now my side question is when does the revolution begin?

The revelution begins when the people realize and get tired of being ignored by their representatives. Until then there will nothing in this country accomplished.

That's why I think the Libritarian party will become stronger in the coming decades.

 

[zeb1094]

What horseshit. And a complete waste of our time.

I'll never again read anything you post, then.

Ok, that your perogative. But I sometime post facts that are true. Just think you may be missing out on some truths.

 

[Boota]

Liberals and Conservatives, Republicans and Democrats, every single American, should be pissed about Rove getting off on this. What he did was an act of high treason. And I don't say that lightly. Valerie Plame was a covert operative for the CIA. (A fact that has not been refuted by anyone but the right wing spin doctoring media.) Her cover was intact and her family and friends didn't even know she worked for the CIA. They had her working in a covert building and doing secret work. That pretty much tells you that she was, in fact, a covert operative. That the administration, i.e. Rove, Libby, Cheney, and even Bush himself, outed her and blew her cover for personal political revenge should bother every American. To justify what they did is to justify treasonous acts by the highest officials in our government. I have a bit of a problem with that.

People have been executed over this sort of thing. Treason is no joke. The attitude of "Ha ha, he got away with treason" is disturbing, to say the least. Since when is this shit okay, from anyone on either side of the aisle?

Liberals weren't the only ones who lost with that decision.