Realism versus fantasy in porn.

[lovecraft68]

Okay, I know there have been threads about plausibility and the over the top cliche's of porn. For example the sweet virgin who loses it to five guys at once and happily sucks and takes all their cocks like a pro.

There are many here who write stroke. Crazy trope filled stories where every guy has 9" and every woman's a whore, every family member wants to fuck the other, every straight guy is secretly gay and every woman really wants to be raped.

Then there are those that try for some degree of realism such as myself. Now in incest its a little difficult, but my stories are all long and I work hard to "justify" the attraction. I always have an emotional as well as sexual bond between the characters.

People do seem to like it, I get good scores and feedback, many calling out the detail and effort I put in. My latest which debuted yesterday was the same.

a father passed away and he was the mothers only lover. when she was young she had been sexually assaulted and was afraid of men,when hubby dies, she turns to women

premise of the story is she would still like to be with a man, but who can she trust? her son of course! So she seduces him, explains why she needs him and a good time was had by all.

So I'm getting good votes comments, but keep getting "do a sequel where they have a threesome with the girlfriend.

so okay you compliment me on realism, then you want me to have a woman say "wow fucking my girlfriend while watching her fuck her son? That's hot!"

There is no plausible way to do this, except a cliche of they get her shitfaced.

My point is, is there really a call for realism or at the end of the day do they all just want the out of control porn world?

 

[estragon]

LC68, you are a victim of your own success. If you can write a hot sex scene, as well as realistic, well-drawn characters, the hot sex will sell, while the realistic, well-drawn characters will have to walk home.

Literotica, too, is a victim of its own success. While billing itself as the site for amateur erotica, and indeed has been the farm team for many very fine professional erotic writers, the fuck-and-sucks are what brings in the crowds.

Strokers will always outnumber the lovers of fine literature.

 

[PennLady]

I think it depends on who's reading, what they're reading and why. Just because a person prefers a longer story in general doesn't mean they won't like a stroke story now and then.

To me, incest is in a fantasy realm anyway, no matter how realistic an author may make it. So once you have family members having sex, moving on to something else like the suggested threesome isn't really that much of a leap.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think it depends on who's reading, what they're reading and why. Just because a person prefers a longer story in general doesn't mean they won't like a stroke story now and then.

To me, incest is in a fantasy realm anyway, no matter how realistic an author may make it. So once you have family members having sex, moving on to something else like the suggested threesome isn't really that much of a leap.

You have a point there for certain.

I always feel that incest is the most popular category here, because for the most part its the only one that remains (for 99.9% of the world) fantasy.

If you look at any other category or kink here they are all possible for you to experience. You can hook up with the opposite sex, have multiple partners, enjoy BDSM, play non consent fantasies(the real thing will get you in trouble) but incest is still a strict taboo.

I am most likely the one hung up on realism, but its more a continuity thing. In chapter one I establish this closeness, this romantic bond, then all of a sudden it's "hey let's invite her in"

so I think it's that over the incest itself.

Once you establish your people a certain way, you don't want to be inconsistent, or it's just me.

 

[Verdad]

Suspension of disbelief, not realism, is the relevant concept. And it requires participation of both sides, the writer and the reader. A skilled writer can sell you on almost anything, at least for the duration of the story. But also, no matter how skilled they may be, it won’t work with readers who are completely disinclined to buy the premise.

Like PennLady, I barely see any difference between incest porn and incest porn with threesomes. The thing jumps the shark for me by definition, so if in the next scene the whole street fucks while performing a Broadway number, it scarcely makes a difference. Someone invested in believing the fantasy may feel strongly about the smallest details, though. Everyone does, when it's their fantasy.

 

[PennLady]

If a threesome isn't something your characters would do, then don't do it. On the other hand, if these otherwise normal people are engaging in a taboo relationship, it may not be that much of a stretch for one, and then both, to consider bringing someone else into that relationship. You'd just have to decide which one would cave in first, so to speak.

 

[bashfullyshameless]

Much of the reason that I prefer sci-fi/fantasy and/or stories with a considerably comedic bent is because of the suspension of disbelief necessary for hot porn. In many of the good stories, the characters can perform with practically superhuman capacity. I have an easier time accepting this if there's a chance that yes, someone may well be superhuman, or there may be a little magic, or at the very least it's obvious that nothing is intended to be taken completely seriously.

I worry sometimes that a character in an erotic story might come off as Mary Sue-ish ("Oh, of COURSE he/she's totally hot, and well-endowed, and great in bed..."), but then I have to remind myself: not too many people really want to read erotica about unattractive characters. It's just part of the genre.

 

[Brandie69]

Ah, the incest audience

My first and, as it turns out now, most enduring "incest" story was at first submitted not as incest but as a masturbation tale. And reasonably so, I should think, because one of the two men I wrote about was not related to me. But, the site owners, in their infinite wisdom, moved it over to the incest/taboo category.

So, ok, I'm out there with the story with the brother and sister who innocently/guiltily sneak peeks at each other, and some appreciative reader encourages me to have him poke her in the ass.

So I write the next chapter, and lo and behold (apropos of another thread here) my character won't do what I tell him to do.

It turns out it drives readers crazy if you keep dragging it out. So, having become known as an horrible tease, my advice to you is to tantalize with the next chapter, but let the characters be true to themselves. My all time favorite reader response is from the young lady who wrote something along the lines of "I keep expecting this to turn into a wild sex romp, but you never disappoint me."

That is someone who gets how I feel about incest.

Just my $0.02 (before taxes).

B

 

[Verdad]

I’d hate to bore anyone with lengthy blather or by bringing up fanfics again, but they could be a neat illustration on this topic.

What makes them a neat illustration is that in fanfic, one reads about the (nominally) same character in a variety of situations, imagined by a variety of people. This makes for lab conditions of a sort.

Someone reading or writing about character X generally has an idea of what they’d like to see. This idea seems to them eminently plausible or at least worthy of exploration. Heated discussions can ensue as to what is ‘in character’ and what is not, or in other words, what is ‘realistic’.

This is not completely silly, for characters have some traits you can’t ignore if they’re to stay recognizable. A reserved person can’t become effusive for no good reason; a character with a slangy, off the cuff speech pattern can’t start belting out lines in iambic pentameter. Beyond such things, though, and especially in the area of getting the character laid, virtually anything has an equal claim to ‘realism’.

You may not think so at first because it’s completely ‘obvious’ to you that the character is gay/straight/dom/sub/celibate/promiscuous/has hots for X/Y/Z/his little dog. Soon you may notice this, though: If you’re eager to see characters X and Y get it on, you may find yourself convinced by writing that’s barely adequate and a scenario that may be as flimsy as “they had to share a blanket on a cold night and years of hatred evaporated to be replaced by passion.”

If, on the other hand, something puts you off and totally doesn’t fit with your perception of the character, you’ll demand much, much more, and if it so happens that you get it—get a masterful presentation—you may find yourself conceding that the take is no less ‘realistic’ than your fave. Granted, you may still find it pointless or extraordinarily ugly, and in some cases one can only hope you would, but ‘realism’ won’t provide you with much of a grounds to stand on. People who never understand this can go to great lengths to explain how their vision is logical while others are fanciful projections.

Smut can contain fine literary qualities like beauty and insight and observation, but its primary drive is fantasy gratification, and there are implications to that. And all of this applies to original characters just as well.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

For what it's worth, since I've started writing here (recently) I've tried a few different ideas. For no really obvious reason, to me, some work better than others.

Mainly I've tried to make the situations at least plausible. That is, the characters do strange things because they have been blackmailed, for example.

I'm now writing something which I think is completely implausible, just to see how it runs. What's the worst that can happen? People will say "well that would never happen.".

But strangely, a lot of the incest (in particular) just seems to me to be really, really unlikely. Usually it happens just after the son/daughter turns 18 (for obvious reasons) and before the day is out they are in the sack with the brother/sister/mother/father. No-one complains, no-one minds.

So I thought, "well, why not?" Why try to explain everything? Does anyone care? Like the posters above say, it's a fantasy. If we are going to accept the fantasy premise, we may as well accept that the whole family gets involved, for no discernible reason.

Having said that, some other stories here have fantastic plots. Believable characters. Good development, you can almost imagine that it could happen to you. Even some of the incest ones where the seduction takes place very gradually over a long period of time.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

No.

What readers want is plausible surprise. Like when youre at lunch with friends or acquaintances you meet at a seminar, and in the middle of eating a bare foot strokes your leg.

 

[damppanties]

...when youre at lunch with friends or acquaintances you meet at a seminar, and in the middle of eating a bare foot strokes your leg.

I didn't know you liked me that way, JBJ.

 

[Thefamiliar]

So I'm getting good votes comments, but keep getting "do a sequel where they have a threesome with the girlfriend.

so okay you compliment me on realism, then you want me to have a woman say "wow fucking my girlfriend while watching her fuck her son? That's hot!"

There is no plausible way to do this, except a cliche of they get her shitfaced.

My point is, is there really a call for realism or at the end of the day do they all just want the out of control porn world?

I say write what you are drawn to write, are you up to the challenge?

A girlfriend who has been abused, raised in a cult or other such things would be eerily open to such arrangements especially if the mother can relate and they help each other heal.

Perhaps I did pick up a thing or two from all those V.C. Andrews novel but you can always invent plausibility, you just have to twist the minds of the chars. People who like the real but twisted, are more about what would drive a person to accept such things.

It's the freak show at he circus. How does a human be ok with that?

As for the one's calling for such a scene for the stroke factor, you got me clueless. I don't know why readers would ask for such a thing. But not normal is what sells right? I mean we read to experience things we normally wouldn't don't we?

 

[susurrus]

As I wrote in my author's profile here at Lit under fetishes: Several, but not necessarily those I write about.

I think most of us who write/read the incest category don't do so because they have sexual designs on members of our own families, but primarily because it is one of, if not THE taboo subject in our society. While I'm sure it happens out there in the big, weird, wiggly world, an overriding percentage of the 5-ish billion people doing their thing on this spinning little ball of mud would never actually consider walking up to their mothers saying, "Hey, baby, wanna fuck?"

Sometimes, it's fun to step out of the realm of plausibility and write the story about that guy with the fourteen inch cock that's as thick as your forearm, that the guy can get completely hard without passing out, and the woman with the 34FF tits who can take the whole damn works down her throat, then up her ass. (Now, where I'd ever find a premise I could use something so wildly improbable, I have no idea).

Still, it's kind of handy to try to retain at least a glimmer of possibility. For one, it's easier to imagine working with appendages and abilities within the realm of mortal men. For two, it's a lot easier for the audience to relate to it, as well. If you can't work out a good reason why your characters are endowed with attributes and abilities so far beyond the norm, it's a good bet your reader will respond with, "What the fuck?"

So, yes, Lovecraft, the incest category is rife with cliches, that make their unlikely situations possible. Unfortunately, that's true. If you don't have the entire family developing an "unhealthy" attraction to ANYBODY with the proper working equipment, you have to resort to the same old, same old, or just ask the reader to believe that this is how it'd happen.

Then again, I'm a firm believer in letting the characters tell the story. If you've got them well enough fleshed out, they should tell you whether what you want to do is possible, such as Brandie's example with the brother and sister in her story. I wrote one years ago that simply took on a life of its own. I don't recall where I intended it to go, but I was certainly surprised when I got to the end and it was the story I had...

I don't know if this helps, hinders, or makes you or anyone else go, "What the hell is he talking about?" While I'm a firm believer in making things as believable as possible, sometimes it's necessary to let a little implausibility sneak in to get to where you want to be...

 

[topace]

LC68, it's nice to see you back here!

As for what you are posting about, I like reading both fantasy and reality based stories here. Personally as I can't write one-shots. my stories will probably have a lot more realism then some will like. But if I tried writing a one shot, it would probably suck in the build up to the big moment.

 

[PayDay]

My point is, is there really a call for realism or at the end of the day do they all just want the out of control porn world?

Majority = realistic

Minority = stroke

Oppressed = story

For instance, if you found a way for the virgin to realistically do all that, it'd be a 5 story. Say she practiced on fruit, one line.

My problem with the thread is the labels and rules.

A stroke story could be realistic. Plausible could be unrealistic.

I think you should sit on it, wait it out, and come up with a way.

Same thing sort of happened to me on a LW story. Originally I wrote it as a one shot, now I'm going to sequel it because I was haggled (ha), but not yet. I'm going to write a few other stories, change my mindset, read the original, then type out the sequel, with the feedback out of mind.

Maybe that helps?

 

[damppanties]

My point is, is there really a call for realism or at the end of the day do they all just want the out of control porn world?

That's not an either or question. Readers want both. Sometimes different readers want either of the two and sometimes the same readers want both at different times depending on their mood and interest.

Coming to your particular issue, it could be done in terms of plausibility and others have pointed out ways to do it already, but do you want to do it?

 

[TE999]

Leave us face it; any erotic story posted on this site, in whatever cat you choose, is fantasy to the average Joe and Jane. Most people's sex lives are as exciting as a bowl of oatmeal and just as tasty. Reading about parents and children getting it on, girlfriends becoming lovers, one dude nailing the other up the ass, cheating wives, fucking alien women on another planet, sex crazed vampires and werewolves and all the other doo-dah is what people enjoy; realism in Erotica should be secondary to the story because it's replicating real life and it's too damn limiting.

 

[TxRad]

Leave us face it; any erotic story posted on this site, in whatever cat you choose, is fantasy to the average Joe and Jane. Most people's sex lives are as exciting as a bowl of oatmeal and just as tasty. Reading about parents and children getting it on, girlfriends becoming lovers, one dude nailing the other up the ass, cheating wives, fucking alien women on another planet, sex crazed vampires and werewolves and all the other doo-dah is what people enjoy; realism in Erotica should be secondary to the story because it's replicating real life and it's too damn limiting.

Go read the comments on LW's stories and then come back and tell me how many of those people don't think the stories are real. Very damned few.

My true stories are less believed than my fantasy one. More fantasy ones are called real than the real ones.

Peoples are crazy.

 

[TE999]

Go read the comments on LW's stories and then come back and tell me how many of those people don't think the stories are real. Very damned few.

My true stories are less believed than my fantasy one. More fantasy ones are called real than the real ones.

Peoples are crazy.

Y'know, I clean forgot about our ever expanding audience of hopelessly delusional readers; especially in the LW cat.

 

[Wyldfire]

Bored with the "real" in porn...... Bring on the rubber area 51 alien masks!!!!! Those were always more fun than the piss poor attempts at realism.....

 

[lovecraft68]

Honestly I have no desire for a sequel and am just putting the question out there. I've said before that for me it's all thrill of the kill. Once the taboo line is crossed I lose interest.

Many incest series that are chapters just become the same two fucking in a different part of the house or something clever like "This time Mom takes it in the ass"

Once the ice is broken I see no point. That of course is just me so I'm not condemning anyone who does otherwise.

My swb series ran over 50 installments because it was a story of an entire lifetime of dysfunction between two siblings who were so broken they were the only two who could be with each other. Everything else for me is just a one time "ice breaker"

I was just looking to see what others thought about it. Got some good opinions out of it

 

[PayDay]

Honestly I have no desire for a sequel and am just putting the question out there. I've said before that for me it's all thrill of the kill. Once the taboo line is crossed I lose interest.

Many incest series that are chapters just become the same two fucking in a different part of the house or something clever like "This time Mom takes it in the ass"

Once the ice is broken I see no point. That of course is just me so I'm not condemning anyone who does otherwise.

My swb series ran over 50 installments because it was a story of an entire lifetime of dysfunction between two siblings who were so broken they were the only two who could be with each other. Everything else for me is just a one time "ice breaker"

I was just looking to see what others thought about it. Got some good opinions out of it

I say make it clever.

 

[Wyldfire]

Nah, incest porn tends to suck badly if it's more than a short bit..... I don't read incest erotica cause it tends to simply be poorly potty trained brats acting out about not enough love from their parents...... Had trouble with any lines in those kinds of pieces in film.....

 

[lovecraft68]

Nah, incest porn tends to suck badly if it's more than a short bit..... I don't read incest erotica cause it tends to simply be poorly potty trained brats acting out about not enough love from their parents...... Had trouble with any lines in those kinds of pieces in film.....

You should try mine or better yet Alwayswantedtoo's stories, I put a lot more reasoning behind the attraction.