Reading Level Scores in Word

[oggbashan]

I am sure someone must have asked this before.

When I spell and grammar check in Word97 I have the option of Readability statistics.

A sample unposted story scored

Flesch Reading Ease 81.0
Flesch-Kincaid Grade level 3.7

I presume that means it is easy to read, unlike some of my posts in the AH.

If I knew what was expected at US school grades the second figure might mean something to me. As it is, it means nothing at all.

Any explanations please? What is a 4th grader expected to know?

Og

 

[gauchecritic]

Any explanations please? What is a 4th grader expected to know?

Og

Sorry Og, I don't actually know how old 4th graders are.

Gauche

 

[raphy]

Hey, if I answer this thread then that's three posts about the American schooling system by non-americans... C'mon, Lou, Iceman, SF .. Chime in here!

 

[Guest]

Ogg, FYI:

"One thing to keep in mind is that the F-K scale does not measure at what grade your writing ability is, but rather at what it believes the youngest grade that could read your writing and easily understand it.

The New York Times for example, tends to write for I believe 8th or 9th grade or lower. No one would claim that the Times is a poorly or juvenily written newspaper; but a child in junior high should be able to pick one up and figure out what's going on from it.

Which also means that, to a certain degree, a lower grade-score is good. It means you write clearly and straightforwardly."
http://belmikey.livejournal.com/45741.html
---------------------

I'll try to find out more about 4th-grade reading levels from some Ed. profs here.

Perdita

 

[Weird Harold]

Flesch Reading Ease 81.0
Flesch-Kincaid Grade level 3.7

I think the only thing you really need to know about the Readability statistics in MS Word is that your target for Grade Level should be 7.0 or less. That's the recommended target reading level for general distribution -- like newspapers, mass-market fiction, business reports, etc.

The Flesch-Kincaid Grade level is computed based on average word length and sentence complexity, and really doesn't match up with actual grade levels of reading ability. It does match fairly close to the results of standrdized reading achievement tests -- originally devised by Drs Flesch and Kincaid in the 1950's.

The Reading Ease score is based on a similar set of conditions -- average word length, number of different words, sentence length and complexity, etc.

The Readability statistics are a useful tool for finding places where you might need to work on your wording and sentence structure. (especially if you check paragraph by paragraph.) However, they are in no way a guide to whether your writing is comprehensible -- nonsense syllables strung together properly can score a reading ease of over 90 and a grade level below 1.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Og,

In summation and as a: within reason, general-type, "rule of thumb," the higher the reading ease level-the better while the lower the grade level-the better. You might check the "help" function in Word; it gives some background on the scores.

And for a little fun and non-profit, you might also run a few paragraphs by various modern best-selling authors through the tests. It can be an eye opener.

Rumple

 

[oggbashan]

Thank you for the replies so far.

At least I now know that Grade 4 implies a higher reading ability than Grade 3 - I wasn't sure which way round the grades went.

The only gradings I knew in the UK were SATs and before that a reading age of say 12 years old i.e. the capability of an average 12 year old.

Perhaps we ought to write for an average 18 year old's reading ability then only those of legal age would understand Literotica.

Og

 

[gauchecritic]

Perhaps we ought to write for an average 18 year old's reading ability then only those of legal age would understand Literotica.

Og

Except that, at a guess the average reading age of the average 18 year old is probably round about 12-15*. Fails even under British law.

Gauche

*high estimate.

 

[Guest]

Given the above posts by Ogg and Gauche are we offering erotica/smut/porn to the under-aged mind? Is this a worse crime than having under-age sex? Is fantasy sex in the mind’s eye of an 18 year old who is taking in the titillating ficiton at a 12-15 year old, or younger, reading level different than for a person of any age who ‘consumes’ it at an adult level of reading and comprehension?

I am quite confused. My vocabulary is beginning to contract, my verb tenses are tense, my pronouns are huddling together.

Perdita

 

[Weird Harold]

The only gradings I knew in the UK were SATs and before that a reading age of say 12 years old i.e. the capability of an average 12 year old.[/B]

A typical American child begins first grade at age 6. Six years later at age 12 they usually enter seventh grade. So the standard is roughly the same.

Personally, I don't think that the grade levels assigned by Reading Achievement Testing have any relationship to real world average age or grade level. The grade levels are set as some idealistic intervals of what should be learned at certain points i.e. ideal target levels rather than actual expected levels.

 

[Dirty Slut]

FYI... 4th graders are age 9-10...

Unless they've been held back, of course.

DS

 

[snooper]

Maybe we could hold a competition for the highest or lowest values on these figures. I tried them on one of my novels and I daren't tell you what they were.

 

[raphy]

Doesn't seem to like cyberpunk too much....

Raph, proponent of the rule 'never use a subject, if your sentence can do without one'

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I just ran the story I'm working on through it and got these results:

section 1 (0246 words) --- Fleash Reading Ease: 44.9 - Fleash Kincaid Grade Level: 11.3
section 2 (0572 words) --- Fleash Reading Ease: 47.6 - Fleash Kincaid Grade Level: 10.7
section 3 (1010 words) --- Fleash Reading Ease: 54.3 - Fleash Kincaid Grade Level: 10.3
section 4 (0869 words) --- Fleash Reading Ease: 61.7 - Fleash Kincaid Grade Level: 7.7
section 5 (1964 words) --- Fleash Reading Ease: 66.3 - Fleash Kincaid Grade Level: 7.0
section 6 (0281 words) --- Fleash Reading Ease: 42.2 - Fleash Kincaid Grade Level: 12.0
section 7 (0109 words) --- Fleash Reading Ease: 60.3 - Fleash Kincaid Grade Level: 9.3

total (5051 words) --- Fleash Reading Ease: 58.7 - Fleash Kincaid Grade Level: 8.6


Curiously, the Grade 7.0 and 7.7 sections are the ones with more dialogue and sex.

PS: Yes, I like to use big words.
PPS: God, I have a feeling this story is going to be such a disastre...

 

[oggbashan]

Given the above posts by Ogg and Gauche are we offering erotica/smut/porn to the under-aged mind? Is this a worse crime than having under-age sex? Is fantasy sex in the mind’s eye of an 18 year old who is taking in the titillating ficiton at a 12-15 year old, or younger, reading level different than for a person of any age who ‘consumes’ it at an adult level of reading and comprehension?

I am quite confused. My vocabulary is beginning to contract, my verb tenses are tense, my pronouns are huddling together.

Perdita

Relax, Venetian Lady,

All these stories are posted in Literotica which has an age limit of over 18. Of course, you do not have to prove you are over 18, but you are breaking the rules if you are not.

I have worked out why my recent stories have "good readability". I have included much more conversation which brings the sentence length down dramatically, cuts down on polysyllabic words, and uses fewer passive sentences.

Some of my earliest work (none of which is on Literotica) has Virgilian sentences of interminable length and breeds polysyllables like rabbits. When reviewing my earliest story (and rejecting it as beyond saving) I found a sentence of 250+ words as one paragraph. I hadn't deliberately written a long sentence. That is how it came out.

So expand your vocabulary, untense your tenses, give your pronouns room to breathe, and appreciate, as I do, that we write for an adult audience in a reservation where words, ideas and sex can range freely to the horizon.

Chorus of:
"Home, Home on the Range,
where the cock and the pussy do play,
where often is heard an interesting word,
and the sheep lie hidden all day."

Og

 

[Alex De Kok]

Og, I am in awe!

My own longest sentence is a mere 150 words. Problem is, I can't remember which story it's in. I remember reading some time ago, that it required a reading age of 12 for the 'Times' (that's London, not New York) but only 7 for the 'Sun'.

Out of curiosity, I checked out three of my own pieces. My highest-scoring (in Romance), my lowest (in Incest) and my Geordie-dialect piece (First Time). The results were surprisingly similar. All scored 1% for passive sentences. In the same order as listed above 86%, 87.5% and 84% for Flesch Reading Ease and 3.7, 3.6 and 4.2 for Flesch-Kincaid grade level. I enjoy writing dialogue and tend to use it freely, although I'm surprised the grade level isn't higher for my dialect piece, lol. Og's conclusions about dialogue increasing readability seem valid.

Alex

 

[Colleen Thomas]

If you would like an eye opener try looking up the writing skills and reading skills of teachers at your local school or university. At Jackson State University, in my native Mississippi a few years ago the teachers scored an average of the 6th grade level for reading comprehension and an average of the 4th grade level for writing skills.

At the private school I attended in High School we were reading John Dunne and Beowulf in 10th grade english class. Friends who stayed in the public schools didn't see these works at all and barely got into To Kill a Mocking Bird in their senior years.

The old FK scale was developed in the 50's, before integration. Before schools decided their primary job was socialization and not education. Before court cases and Political correctness put an end to corporal punishment, Leaving kids back, presenting challenging work and holding higher standards rather than teaching to the lowest common denominator. Before standardized tests became the rage.

As a scale of readability it is pretty much useless now. Even for americans who graduated from the system what constitutes 4th grade readability is debateable. What one set of kids is learning in 4th grade may be 6th grade work in a school across the street and 2nd grade work at one up the road. In general the standard is far too high for kids in most inner city and very rual schools while its far to low for kids in affluent suburbs or attending parochial or private schools.

-Colly

 

[oggbashan]

How NOT to do it...

The roseate Sun, Phoebus’ orb, was glinting in the puddles and dappling the fallen leaves of the ancient forest as Joan made her way along the footpath leading from her rustic rose-entwined cottage, so beloved of tourists and her infrequent visitors from the city who left as soon as they reasonably could because the cottage lacked the basic amenities than any twenty-first century city dweller expected as of right such as satellite television and even running hot and cold water both of which were lacking, towards the steeple crowned hill on which the Parish Church sat as it had done for more than a thousand years surveying the expanding and contracting village in the valley beneath and perhaps regretting the earlier centuries when it had been filled to capacity by local residents each in their proper place and order according to the standards of the time, but Joan diverted from the direct route to the Church at a junction and was now heading in the direction of the Evening Star, the planet Venus known as Aphrodite to the Greeks but whether Greek or Roman was the personification of sexual desire, which sexual desire Joan was expecting to assuage once she reached her destination but in the meantime she was diverted by the interplay of light and shade from the evening sun as it sank lower on the horizon turning the landscape to a darkening ruddy hue which darkened further as she walked wondering whether she would reach her destination and assignation before Phoebus’ chariot had passed beyond her view but even if she did not her path was clear because she was accustomed to walking in the direction of the Evening Star every evening that she had free from her avocation of breeder of large and hairy dogs that bore a faint resemblance to The Hound of The Baskervilles and at times she would take one of the so-called breed with her on her perambulation which would certainly deter any evil minded loiterers upon her way but unfortunately also frequently prevented the consummation of her assignation by refusing to leave her side and repulsing her intended with ferocious barking and frenzied attacks barely held in check by the strong leash essential for such savage dogs but this time she was without a canine companion and therefore she hoped that the consummation would be forthcoming without let or hindrance as she continued to walk alongside the nearly dark woodlands before emerging on a slight eminence whence she could see her goal of another rose-entwined cottage from the chimney of which a wisp of smoke was arising promising warmth in both the physical, mental and sexual encounter which Joan would shortly enjoy.

"He's lit my fire" she said to herself.

Og

PS. Ignoring the last short sentence which I couldn't resist:

Words 450
Sentences 1
Reading Ease 0
Grade Level 12.0

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

Whew...

I like Faulkner and couldn't even make sense of that little run-on.

I need to go take some dramamine now...lol.

~WOK

 

[Guest]

... Some of my earliest work (none of which is on Literotica) has Virgilian sentences of interminable length and breeds polysyllables like rabbits.

... So expand your vocabulary, untense your tenses, give your pronouns room to breathe. ...

Dear, dear Ogg,

Expanded, untensed, breathing.

Virgilian sentences arouse me, though not to rabbit-like levels.

Gratefully, Perdita

 

[oggbashan]

Precis

The sun was setting as Joan walked, without a dog, from her cottage to her lover's cottage. The smoke rising from his chimney told her that he was ready and waiting.


Words 31
Reading Ease 81.9
Grade Level 5.6

I still prefer the 450 word version but I'd break it up.

Og

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Og,

That isn't just a 450 word sentence, it's a 450 word, one sentence short story. This 52 word digression is, IMHO, the most impressive.

"...so beloved of tourists and her infrequent visitors from the city who left as soon as they reasonably could because the cottage lacked the basic amenities than any twenty-first century city dweller expected as of right such as satellite television and even running hot and cold water both of which were lacking,"

Remember, Og, using a period is not a sign of weakness.

Rumple Foreskin

ps: for what it's worth: The sun was setting as Joan walked, without a dog, from her cottage to her lover's cottage. The smoke rising from his chimney told her that he was ready and waiting.

(At sunset, Joan walked alone to her lover's cottage. Smoke rose from his chimney. He was waiting, and ready.)
Words - 19
Reading ease - 84.6
Grade lever - 3
Passive - 0%

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Og, I am in awe!

... and my Geordie-dialect piece (First Time). The results were ... 84% for Flesch Reading Ease and ... 4.2 for Flesch-Kincaid grade level. ... I'm surprised the grade level isn't higher for my dialect piece, lol.

Your results amply demonstrate that the "reading ease" rating is not exactly reliable. Geordie dialect apparently doesn't run to long words or long sentences.

Og long sentence also demonstrates that punctuation, or the lack thereof, can skew the results as well. A few appropriately placed periods would change the score to something that is at least onthe scale. The rating of 0%/12th GL just means that the scale doesn't include negative percentages or reach GL 24

Both are very good examples of why the readability statistics are just a tool to help an author apply common sense to their writing. Writing to a specific grade level or reading ease score will result in gibberish as often as it results in improvement.