Raw vs Passion vs Sensual

[tolyk]

After a discussion with Svenskaflika I realised that I have a completely different viewpoint on what all three of those words represent than she does. It got me curious as to whether it is due to the gender difference or perhaps it might be more cultural differences, or some other explanation that I'm too tired to come up with at the moment.

The dictionary describes them as:

Sensual: 1. Physical, gratifying to the body, sensual pleasures. 2. Indulging oneself with physical pleasures, showing that ones does this. (Sensuous: affecting or appealing to the senses)

Passion: 1. strong emotion. 2. an outburst of anger. 3. sexual love. 4 great enthusiasm for something. (Passionate: full of passion, showing or moved by strong emotion, intense)

Raw: 1. crude in artistic quality, lacking finish.


Now, personally I've always seen passion as a very "raw" emotion. Intense, and overwhelming. When written properly it gives the writing a raw feel. Sensual can also be raw, when written that way. It also delivers strong emotions.

These definitions of mine might stem from the fact that I heard the term "raw emotion" a lot as a child.

When I describe a piece of writing as raw, I mean strong, jarring, intense, etc etc.

What is the general take on these three words here in the AH? Feel free to ramble.

 

[NoJo]

After a discussion with Svenskaflika I realised that I have a completely different viewpoint on what all three of those words represent than she does. It got me curious as to whether it is due to the gender difference or perhaps it might be more cultural differences, or some other explanation that I'm too tired to come up with at the moment.

The dictionary describes them as:

Sensual: 1. Physical, gratifying to the body, sensual pleasures. 2. Indulging oneself with physical pleasures, showing that ones does this. (Sensuous: affecting or appealing to the senses)

Passion: 1. strong emotion. 2. an outburst of anger. 3. sexual love. 4 great enthusiasm for something. (Passionate: full of passion, showing or moved by strong emotion, intense)

Raw: 1. crude in artistic quality, lacking finish.


Now, personally I've always seen passion as a very "raw" emotion. Intense, and overwhelming. When written properly it gives the writing a raw feel. Sensual can also be raw, when written that way. It also delivers strong emotions.

These definitions of mine might stem from the fact that I heard the term "raw emotion" a lot as a child.

When I describe a piece of writing as raw, I mean strong, jarring, intense, etc etc.

What is the general take on these three words here in the AH? Feel free to ramble.

I think it's very interesting to compare these words, and I'm going to think about your post tonight, tolyk.

For now, I'd say that "raw" emotions make me think of "raw" nerves and "raw" scars, painful and exposed.

 

[DrFreud]

After a discussion with Svenskaflika I realised that I have a completely different viewpoint on what all three of those words represent than she does. It got me curious as to whether it is due to the gender difference or perhaps it might be more cultural differences, or some other explanation that I'm too tired to come up with at the moment.

The dictionary describes them as:

Sensual: 1. Physical, gratifying to the body, sensual pleasures. 2. Indulging oneself with physical pleasures, showing that ones does this. (Sensuous: affecting or appealing to the senses)

Passion: 1. strong emotion. 2. an outburst of anger. 3. sexual love. 4 great enthusiasm for something. (Passionate: full of passion, showing or moved by strong emotion, intense)

Raw: 1. crude in artistic quality, lacking finish.


Now, personally I've always seen passion as a very "raw" emotion. Intense, and overwhelming. When written properly it gives the writing a raw feel. Sensual can also be raw, when written that way. It also delivers strong emotions.

These definitions of mine might stem from the fact that I heard the term "raw emotion" a lot as a child.

When I describe a piece of writing as raw, I mean strong, jarring, intense, etc etc.

What is the general take on these three words here in the AH? Feel free to ramble.

My conventional self would mostly agree with the dictionary's definition.
But hey who hasn't heard of "raw sensual passion" before

I guess the most important meaning to a word is the feelings and images it evokes, which different for every person. It's all good, that's why a story can strike a cord with so many different persons.

DrF

 

[Svenskaflicka]

...whereas MY take on it, is as follows:

Passion is mind-consuming. It makes your thoughts take a time-out, and you're all emotions for a while. Like an animal. Passion can be raw, or it can be sensual.
"Raw" is the feeling of "I gotta go with these feelings, I must have pleasure, I can't stop doing this because it feels so fucking GOOD!"
"Sensual" is more "I love every feeling I snse; the way your skin is soft under my hands, the way you moan when I lick you, the way my skin gets goosebumps when you pull the shirt off my shoulders..."

Zorro would make love to a woman passionately. Jack Sparrow would make love in a raw way.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Has anyone seen "Bruce Almighty"? Remember the scene when Jim Carrey turns Jennifer Aniston mad with lust? THAT's the kind of mind-numbing, body-indulging RAW passion I'm talking about!

 

[CharleyH]

Sexually, my thought are that RAW is base, taboo, spur, animalistic, hurried and hard, like a one night stand.

Passion is two people sharing an intense connection, needing, wanting in a furious burst like two lovers who have not seen eachother in a long time.

Sensual is slow, loving, savouring, enjoying.

My take.

 

[Guest]

Tolyk, interesting ideas. The first thing I thought of was Lévi-Strauss’ theory on “the raw” and “the cooked”. He meant that which is “natural” vs. “cultural”, to do with human attempts to find a balance between them. So I associate “raw” in that way—pure, unfettered, true. A raw emotion is one that comes without thinking, like instant grief at hearing of a loved one’s death, or spontaneous hilarity. Usually when I hear the term “raw sex” I presume it’s about fucking (crude, raw) vs. making love (refined, cooked).

There are passions and then there are passions. Some can be raw, some come from the brain or a brain/heart combination. I am passionate about opera but it took time and study to get that way. However, when I’m “in” an opera, watching and listening, I can experience raw passions, even when it’s the umpteenth performance of Traviata. I’m sure you know the phrase “rekindled passion”. It may seem oxymoronic but then I think passion carries with it the sense of burning out, dying, etc. It’s an unsustainable height, or heat. (I’m not talking about “love”.)

Your dictionary definition of sensual is fine. Sensuality does not have to be about sex, though it’s hard to understand how sex, or being sexual, can exist without sensuality. On the other hand, sexuality can be acted without an emotional passion, but not without the physical. (Having sex with an un-sensual partner is dull.)

I do think all children have raw emotions, at least until they begin to reason. Unfortunately, in some ways at least, we’re taught to “cook” our emotions and passions, even our sensuality, as we grow up (more so in the U.S. I think).

I look forward to others’ thoughts here and may post again. Thanks.

Perdita

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Sexually, my thought are that RAW is base, taboo, spur, animalistic, hurried and hard, like a one night stand.

Passion is two people sharing an intense connection, needing, wanting in a furious burst like two lovers who have not seen eachother in a long time.

Sensual is slow, loving, savouring, enjoying.

My take.

Nicely put. Very, very good.

 

[NoJo]

Sexually, my thought are that RAW is base, taboo, spur, animalistic, hurried and hard, like a one night stand.

Passion is two people sharing an intense connection, needing, wanting in a furious burst like two lovers who have not seen eachother in a long time.

Sensual is slow, loving, savouring, enjoying.

My take.

Cruditees -- roughly cut or broken, raw vegetables. We've all witnessed and felt raw angush. Raw is I guess un-"cooked". Simple, unsophited, rude (like a rude tool or a rude hut), uncivilized, close to nature.

Passion -- needs someone like Perdita, someone who's both passionate and a Catholic to describe. The Holy Ghost is involved in passion. But I get passionate when I talk about my computer programming work. Enthusiastic. A wonderful word, originally describing the Passion the Orphic disciples would undergo when they were entered by God. Now it just means keen and interested.

I'm still thinking out loud. And reading what people post here.

 

[Guest]

I'm not surprized Jose's read L-Strauss. He's right about me too. P.

edit for P.S. I get very keen on blokes

 

[tolyk]

Tolyk, interesting ideas. The first thing I thought of was Lévi-Strauss’ theory on “the raw” and “the cooked”. He meant that which is “natural” vs. “cultural”, to do with human attempts to find a balance between them. So I associate “raw” in that way—pure, unfettered, true. A raw emotion is one that comes without thinking, like instant grief at hearing of a loved one’s death, or spontaneous hilarity. Usually when I hear the term “raw sex” I presume it’s about fucking (crude, raw) vs. making love (refined, cooked).

There are passions and then there are passions. Some can be raw, some come from the brain or a brain/heart combination. I am passionate about opera but it took time and study to get that way. However, when I’m “in” an opera, watching and listening, I can experience raw passions, even when it’s the umpteenth performance of Traviata. I’m sure you know the phrase “rekindled passion”. It may seem oxymoronic but then I think passion carries with it the sense of burning out, dying, etc. It’s an unsustainable height, or heat. (I’m not talking about “love”.)

Your dictionary definition of sensual is fine. Sensuality does not have to be about sex, though it’s hard to understand how sex, or being sexual, can exist without sensuality. On the other hand, sexuality can be acted without an emotional passion, but not without the physical. (Having sex with an un-sensual partner is dull.)

I do think all children have raw emotions, at least until they begin to reason. Unfortunately, in some ways at least, we’re taught to “cook” our emotions and passions, even our sensuality, as we grow up (more so in the U.S. I think).

I look forward to others’ thoughts here and may post again. Thanks.

Perdita

Perdita, beautiful post. Thank you for contributing. You just described exactly what I was meaning for raw. I don't know where I learned it, it just seems to be the way I've always thought of it. Natural emotional responces to situations. Thats why I feel raw passion is much different than just passion on its own.

 

[Guest]

Sexually, my thought are that RAW is base, taboo, spur, animalistic, hurried and hard, like a one night stand.

Passion is two people sharing an intense connection, needing, wanting in a furious burst like two lovers who have not seen eachother in a long time.

Sensual is slow, loving, savouring, enjoying.

My take.

Yep, and that's as near as dammit to my take on it, too. Very well said. I especially agree with the passion bit. So true.

 

[neonlyte]

Interesting word choices:

Interesting personal response - immediate conditioning shying away from gut instinct.
So lets get the gut instinct on the page and think about the words some more.

Sensual = visual
Passion = agression
Raw = intimacy

Clearly these words evoke differing reactions, i'll try and explain mine tomorrow.

 

[Guest]

Clearly these words evoke differing reactions, i'll try and explain mine tomorrow.

You tease! P.

 

[tolyk]

Interesting word choices:

Interesting personal response - immediate conditioning shying away from gut instinct.
So lets get the gut instinct on the page and think about the words some more.

Sensual = visual
Passion = agression
Raw = intimacy

Clearly these words evoke differing reactions, i'll try and explain mine tomorrow.

The reason I picked those three words is because they are very often used to describe/compliment a piece of writing. Not the writing itself, but the content.

 

[CharleyH]

Nicely put. Very, very good.

Ah, but not to say like you did, they ARE interchangable (sp)

 

[CharleyH]

Cruditees -- roughly cut or broken, raw vegetables. We've all witnessed and felt raw angush. Raw is I guess un-"cooked". Simple, unsophited, rude (like a rude tool or a rude hut), uncivilized, close to nature.

Passion -- needs someone like Perdita, someone who's both passionate and a Catholic to describe. The Holy Ghost is involved in passion. But I get passionate when I talk about my computer programming work. Enthusiastic. A wonderful word, originally describing the Passion the Orphic disciples would undergo when they were entered by God. Now it just means keen and interested.

I'm still thinking out loud. And reading what people post here.

Use that brain a bit more and I might just be tempted to RAW (imagine panther, ok )

And to Perdita. great post, loved the book, the theory and the Fine Young Cannibals(sp)

 

[neonlyte]

The reason I picked those three words is because they are very often used to describe/compliment a piece of writing. Not the writing itself, but the content.

Yeh, I can see that and it's what began to condition my response pulling it toward what might be conceived to be a conventional analyis of usage, it was the realisation that the words actual mean something quite different for me - essentially all components of visual imagery, rather than descriptors, that made me stop. I want to think on this before responding further, but wanted to post my immediate response - before I conditioned it.

 

[tolyk]

Yeh, I can see that and it's what began to condition my response pulling it toward what might be conceived to be a conventional analyis of usage, it was the realisation that the words actual mean something quite different for me - essentially all components of visual imagery, rather than descriptors, that made me stop. I want to think on this before responding further, but wanted to post my immediate response - before I conditioned it.

Thought is always a good thing when stepping into an intellectual conversation Looking forward to reading your conditioned version.

 

[CharleyH]

Interesting word choices:

Interesting personal response - immediate conditioning shying away from gut instinct.
So lets get the gut instinct on the page and think about the words some more.

Sensual = visual
Passion = agression
Raw = intimacy

Clearly these words evoke differing reactions, i'll try and explain mine tomorrow.

I like the difference, Neon, as you say in a later post. I think your definitions seem more of . . . dare I say, an emotional response? Interesting and unique take. One question. Sensual visual AND auditory, or just visual?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Ah, but not to say like you did, they ARE interchangable (sp)

I think we need to draw a parallell (sp?) to astrology to get my point across. Those of you who are into horoscopes know that you have your star sign - aries, taurus, gemini, cancer, etc - and then you have your ascent in another sign. Sort of your second nature. The other side of the coin. The thing that influences you. You may for instance be an aries - tough, spontaneous, and ambitious - but you have your ascent in the pisces - sensitive, romantic, and edgy - meaning you may very well react negatively and feel hurt if your brave plans don't work out.

Translated to our current topic of discussion, I think you may have one of these things - passion, sensuality, and rawness - dusting off on another, so that your raw one night stand has a slight touch of sensuality to it, or your lovemaking starts off sensually, then gets rougher and more raw the closer you get to orgasm.

Opposites don't necessarily exclude one another. Sometimes, they complete each other.

 

[yui]

Translated to our current topic of discussion, I think you may have one of these things - passion, sensuality, and rawness - dusting off on another, so that your raw one night stand has a slight touch of sensuality to it, or your lovemaking starts off sensually, then gets rougher and more raw the closer you get to orgasm.

Opposites don't necessarily exclude one another. Sometimes, they complete each other.

Well said, Svenska!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

From semantics to astrology... Welcome to Lit!

 

[neonlyte]

I like the difference, Neon, as you say in a later post. I think your definitions seem more of . . . dare I say, an emotional response? Interesting and unique take. One question. Sensual visual AND auditory, or just visual?

Sensual
It would almost be stupid to ignore the auditory - but I will for just a moment. My background is visual art, originally architecture, then Fine Art, somehow crossing through the visual and sensuality of food and back to architecture, for the moment, I can take or leave Fine Art, I've reached a comfort zone that I can re-visit for the sensuality embodied in certain works, and artists.

I've never been comfortable with an artist that I couldn't undress (fortunately ms neonlyte obliges). By this I mean a need to take a view across a body of work rather than a single work from a portfolio. This is where the sensuality comes from, it's a refinement of choices, practised, perfected and finally displayed in the right setting, the right lighting, the perfect ambiance, presented for observation - or created by the observer who visits his/her own desires and sensuality on the scene.

I don't need to see my wife - my lover to appreciate her sensuality any more than I need to re-visit Le Corbusiers chapel Notre Dame at Ronchamp to understand the sensuality that a building can possess. Both seduce. They have rehearsed and honed performances, stored in my mind ready for me to activate and condition my perception.
We three grow old together, I see Ronchamp at Easter 1976, the sun screaming of the dewed grass, inside my wife stood bathed in the red reflected sun light staining the side chapel. Outside the choir practised Easter Hymns, the sound of their singing drifting into sanctuary, caressing the silence off the walls.

Sensual - for me it's visual, I locked down my images and bring them out as benchmarks, that's not to say they are not surpassed - but those images, the one's I locked down, are mine.



I find sensuality in many things, but they are nearly always triggers to a past event or experience. It can be a smell, a sound, a sight that issues an avalanche of sensual thought, pleasure taken, in my mind.

 

[CharleyH]

Translated to our current topic of discussion, I think you may have one of these things - passion, sensuality, and rawness - dusting off on another, so that your raw one night stand has a slight touch of sensuality to it, or your lovemaking starts off sensually, then gets rougher and more raw the closer you get to orgasm.

Opposites don't necessarily exclude one another. Sometimes, they complete each other.

Well said! and as a gemini I include all, hopefully :|