Ravings of a mad man? You be the judge

[Guest]

The world seems to be in an uproar about the fact that the president ordered the monitoring of U.S. Citizens who made phone calls over seas?

Okay let’s break this down:
1. We are at war
2. The enemy is over seas
3. This country is still full of terrorist

I may be stupid but this invasion of privacy to me does not mean the end of democracy and the freedoms that we all enjoy. It is the security of the nation involved here people! This is a possible way to stop another attack like the one that happened in New York….remember 9/11?
I wonder what would happen if we rounded up all the people of Middle Eastern decent and put them in interment camps like we did the Japanese in WW II? I don’t think listening in on phone calls even compares to that in justice!
I myself don’t care if the NSA wants to hear me call Germany and order some more beer!
I enjoy my rights as a citizen to sit in my castle and feel free from big brother listening in on me but I’m willing to give that up to save lives. Why? Because I’m not doing anything wrong and who cares if they hear my beer order? The fricking news stations get paid by the story and if necessary will make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Wake Up America!

 

[Wildcard Ky]

I have mixed feelings on this. While many are rushing to judgment, I'm willing to wait for the whole story to come out. What's been released so far is much to vague and incomplete information to get a realistic grasp on what's happened.

The concept of big brother being able to listen in on me at will is disturbing. We need to find out the who/what/ and why of the people they chose to eavesdrop on.

 

[domjoe]

The world seems to be in an uproar about the fact that the president ordered the monitoring of U.S. Citizens who made phone calls over seas?

Okay let’s break this down:
1. We are at war
2. The enemy is over seas
3. This country is still full of terrorist

I may be stupid but this invasion of privacy to me does not mean the end of democracy and the freedoms that we all enjoy. It is the security of the nation involved here people! This is a possible way to stop another attack like the one that happened in New York….remember 9/11?
I wonder what would happen if we rounded up all the people of Middle Eastern decent and put them in interment camps like we did the Japanese in WW II? I don’t think listening in on phone calls even compares to that in justice!
I myself don’t care if the NSA wants to hear me call Germany and order some more beer!
I enjoy my rights as a citizen to sit in my castle and feel free from big brother listening in on me but I’m willing to give that up to save lives. Why? Because I’m not doing anything wrong and who cares if they hear my beer order? The fricking news stations get paid by the story and if necessary will make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Wake Up America!

You're basically repeating Bush's speech yesterday, only you're slightly more articulate.

 

[Boota]

Let them have this and where does it stop?

The easy answer: It doesn't. If this isn't fought against you can kiss a measure of your freedom goodbye. They have to have a legitimate reason to do this kind of thing. Letting them do it whenever they want to whoever they want is an abuse that will only lead to worse abuses.

 

[zeb1094]

Yeah, the next thing you know they'll want to listen in on the drug dealers and pedaphiles and contract hitmen. Then where will be? The economy will go bust, the baby bells will go broke because no one wants to make phone calls anymore. Everyone will be using encrypted VoIP, cats and dogs will be living together in peace, oh the humanity where will it all end.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

the real question is simply this, are you willing to give up the rights you enjoy as an american citizen to see them protected? If law enforcement cannot work effectively while our rights are still safeguarded, then we have to decide if we fear terrorist attack more than we value our rights. In either case, the terrorists have won if our fear of them makes giving up our rights seem preferable.

 

[kendo1]

They are probably just doing it because they can do it.
New technology etc.

You don't really think they will stop, do you?
The men in black will just try to be a bit more secretive.

 

[fifty5]

Go Colly!

When 'security' costs more than its lack, it's a bad deal.

Phone taps are legal when they are authorised - and if there is just cause, then authority is given. Wasting time listening to some daft sod ordering beer from Germany is as effective as trying to make the free world safe by invading a country that doesn't have WMDs.

 

[Guest]

Go Colly!

When 'security' costs more than its lack, it's a bad deal.

Phone taps are legal when they are authorised - and if there is just cause, then authority is given. Wasting time listening to some daft sod ordering beer from Germany is as effective as trying to make the free world safe by invading a country that doesn't have WMDs.

Well said.

And I'm certain this effort was as poorly planned as the invasion of Iraq.

And on a discomforting note, who knows how many calls and emails were monitored? If you are a U.S. resident and you talked to someone outside our borders it may have been your communications the NSA recorded.

I believe U.S. citizens should be very concerned. If we allow this invasion of our privacy and our personal rights where will it end? What will they monitor next?

 

[Munachi]

So this means they didn't do this so far?

When I had an american bf a few years ago we were told by someone that international phonecalls were listened to by systems that react to specific words - so we would drop in words we thought to attract attention at random. And then, after any kind of phone sex talk, we'd ask the supposed listener if they enjoyed it...

So this means, we did all that for nothing? I am most dissappointed...

 

[CharleyH]

Hm two threads with the same titles by two gorgeously intelligent boys. I might almost be confused.

 

[rgraham666]

So this means they didn't do this so far?

When I had an american bf a few years ago we were told by someone that international phonecalls were listened to by systems that react to specific words - so we would drop in words we thought to attract attention at random. And then, after any kind of phone sex talk, we'd ask the supposed listener if they enjoyed it...

So this means, we did all that for nothing? I am most dissappointed...

LOL. Perfect.

Reminds me of an old Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers comic. The boys found out they were bugged, started talking about drug shipments and kids. Did a bit to get a lot of 'attention', then cut the phone wires and stuck them in a electrical socket to blow out all the equipment listening.



I believe the name of the game is 'plausible deniability'. As fifty pointed out, wiretaps can be obtained, if a judge so warrants. But this leaves an reasonably easy to obtain paper trail.

If, say, some innocent is tapped under these conditions the victim can easily get enough evidence to bring legal action. And the press will have a field day.

Under the 'New Rules', the innocent person is shit out of luck.

 

[CharleyH]

The world seems to be in an uproar about the fact that the president ordered the monitoring of U.S. Citizens who made phone calls over seas?

Okay let’s break this down:
1. We are at war

1. With whom?

 

[Liar]

Because I’m not doing anything wrong and who cares if they hear my beer order?

What if they hear your steamy hot phone sex with Helmut the Bratwürst Boy?

 

[Guest]

What if they hear your steamy hot phone sex with Helmut the Bratwürst Boy?

Ooh.

I wanna hear that.

 

[CharleyH]

What if they hear your steamy hot phone sex with Helmut the Bratwürst Boy?

Bratwurst may be too much. Stinky thing it is

 

[rgraham666]

1. With whom?

Whoever is convenient this week.

 

[CharleyH]

Whoever is convenient this week.

LOL

 

[R. Richard]

I have talked to people who lived through WW II. The curtailment of American rights during WW II was extreme. Well known is that they interned Japanese. Less well known is that they interned Aleut Indians [many of whom died] in Alaska. They had block wardens in big cities and you could get arrested for showing lighted windows in at least Los Angeles. You could buy all of the sugar nylon and tires you wanted, as long as you had the right ration card. Only the military services had the right ration cards.

After the war, the rights were restored. [Whazzat? No, they didn't execute the idiot who interned the Japanese and the Aleuts, although the world would have been a better place had they done so.]

The United States is not presently at war. [Actually the United States was technically at war with several Indian tribes, at least a few years ago. Check with Cloudy on this.] What we are dealing with in Iraq and Afghanistan fall under the heading of banditry, under international law. The rules for dealing with bandits are well known and well established in said law.

 

[CharleyH]

The world seems to be in an uproar about the fact that the president ordered the monitoring of U.S. Citizens who made phone calls over seas?

Okay let’s break this down:
1. We are at war
2. The enemy is over seas
3. This country is still full of terrorist

I may be stupid but this invasion of privacy to me does not mean the end of democracy and the freedoms that we all enjoy. It is the security of the nation involved here people! This is a possible way to stop another attack like the one that happened in New York….remember 9/11?
I wonder what would happen if we rounded up all the people of Middle Eastern decent and put them in interment camps like we did the Japanese in WW II? I don’t think listening in on phone calls even compares to that in justice!
I myself don’t care if the NSA wants to hear me call Germany and order some more beer!
I enjoy my rights as a citizen to sit in my castle and feel free from big brother listening in on me but I’m willing to give that up to save lives. Why? Because I’m not doing anything wrong and who cares if they hear my beer order? The fricking news stations get paid by the story and if necessary will make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Wake Up America!

2. The enemy is overseas. How do you know for sure?

 

[Liar]

2. The enemy is overseas. How do you know for sure?

Because it's me. Boo!

 

[CharleyH]

No, they didn't execute the idiot who interned the Japanese .

Interesting and maybe little known - there were Mengela type experiments on the Chinese as well, by the Japanese -nothing said, nothing done. Sad how little of our world history we are allowed to know - sadder how we elect people to represent us when they dont even allow us privy info (tax dollars at work) or let our tax dollar work. Democracy? LOL

WW2? We executed the panzies at Bergen-Belson first ? Why? On the basis of what? They were not even an extermination camp? Why did Allies just exterminate?

Why do we not see through the current milieu?

Good lord, aren't humans a stupid race.

 

[Guest]

1. With whom?

Well Charley....

Right or wrong in spite of how you feel about it we are at war with the insurgents and the terrorist that make a living by killing them selves and any one else that happens to be in the way.
You may argue that the war was ill conceived and maybe it was but the fact remains that young men and women who believe in what they are doing are giving their lives for the USA along with the young men and women of every allied country who believes in democracy.
I happen to work with and for these warriors who take orders and give their all so my viewpoint may be somewhat one sided as I hear the stories and see the pictures that the general public is not privy to.
I feel in my heart that one little tumor of democracy planted in the Middle East may in fact spread and forever change the shape of the world for the better. Yes I am an optimist and everyone on these boards can hate me for it if they want but I hope that we prevail and change the world one little piece at a time, for to do nothing and risk nothing gives you just that.....nothing!

I personally would prefer that the battle be fought on foreign shores than in the streets of our cities.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

the real question is simply this, are you willing to give up the rights you enjoy as an american citizen to see them protected? If law enforcement cannot work effectively while our rights are still safeguarded, then we have to decide if we fear terrorist attack more than we value our rights. In either case, the terrorists have won if our fear of them makes giving up our rights seem preferable.

Indeed. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." One of many reasons men like Ben Franklin are sorely needed.

 

[CharleyH]

Well Charley....

Right or wrong in spite of how you feel about it we are at war with the insurgents and the terrorist that make a living by killing them selves and any one else that happens to be in the way.

Sorry Edit:

Who happens to be in the way of what? Who is a terrorist? The ones who make a one time strike, or a country that walks into a country that as nothing to do with Al Quieda (sp)?

What is a terrorist? Perhaps you need to look at the elected government. The Germans did not - will you make the same mistake?