Rating system: Looking for opinions

[caspai]

Yes, I am about to stir up trouble. Those of you who know me won't be surprised by that, but here goes.

While I know that it is not, strictly speaking, within the format of this board, I would like to have a discussion about something that I am noticing, something that I am disturbed by. I have just recently come back to SRP after having taken a much needed break, and it seems that nearly every thread on the board has a star rating to it. While feedback is important, as is anonymity, the system that is being used is disturbing to me. I don't see what value it is to anyone who is writing or reading to see a single star highlighted next to a thread. If you read something that you don't care for, don't read it again. If you are offended by some subject that is being written on, don't open the thread. If you aren't enjoying the experience of writing in a particular thread, politely bow out of it. To rate a thread with a single star is like putting up a huge sign that says "keep away", but if that is your opinion, why do you have to shout it to the world? Why not just not read the thread?

As I said before, feedback is important, but for how long did this board exist with no ratings being given to any threads? Shouldn't feedback accomplish something beyond being used as an advertising mechanism, for good or bad? And how many people who have never originated a thread, or never posted TO a thread, are going to be chased away by the rating system that is seemingly being used indiscriminately?

If any of you have an opinion about this, I would really like to hear it. My opinion right now is that the star system can be used as a club more than anything, and that just isn't right. Writing should be for fun, and as a way to challenge yourself to improve.

Knowing that I am undoubtedly now opening myself to no end of abuse, I ask you to share your opinions on this subject. Thank you.

~Cas

 

[ARaynes]

Cas I tend to agree with you. People are here to have fun and sometimes when that little star shines like it does they get discouraged. I know a couple of writers that have been discouraged by that star, though I tend to tell them that the people that did that didn't know their butt from apple butter. Why ruin someones esteem on their writing because you don't like whta the subject is or the person writing?

You get no complaints from this writer Cas.

 

[caspai]

Thank you for your comments, AR, I really appreciate the response.

I remember a day when not a single thread got a rating like that. The first time a rating appeared, I was shocked. Believe me, it caused a flurry. I don't know who made the rating, but I wish they knew what they had started. I really wish I could go back to a time when that column was completely blank.

 

[samsonagonistes]

Even "single stars" inspire me to read it and rate the story totally differently if I think the low rating was unfair.

So while I appreciate the concerns, I disagree and hope the rating system stays.

 

[Guest]

Knowing that I am undoubtedly now opening myself to no end of abuse, I ask you to share your opinions on this subject. Thank you.

~Cas

To avoid being abused i will post this as unregistered.

The most boring thing with the rating system is that you can rate the same thread 5 times from the same computer.

And with my big ego i have already done that

I don't see the need for ratings, nor can i see it as an honest opion about a particular thread.
I hope noone will be hurt from a bad rating since the whole system is a joke.

 

[caspai]

samsonagonistes, thank you for your opinion, but I hope you read unrated threads as well. It just seems to me that the rating system that exists can be used as a club as much as anything, and can tend to be politically motivated. Believe me when I say that I am familiar with the politics that exist on SRP.

Unregistered, if I know you and have caused you to fear that I would retaliate after asking for honest opinions, I am sorry.

~Cas

 

[Guest]

Cas,it wasn't a retaliation from you i was worried about.

But i couldn't resist to try to see how the system worked and much to my surprise you could rate the same thread more then once.

Could that be the reason for the spread in ratings ?

 

[ariosto]

The rating system is a joke.
I for one would like to ask admin to remove it from the RP boards entirely.

 

[caspai]

I have never personally taken part in the rating system, so I didn't know that you could vote more than once.

Thank you for your comments, Ariosto, it means a lot to me to have people talk about this subject, because people who weren't here before the threads were rated might not know what it was like.

Opinions are very important to me, but a star that is just hanging out there doesn't say anything at all. Or two, three, four or five for that matter. All it says is that someone clicked a mouse. If you love something, tell the writer that their writing is great. Tell them by sending a private message to them. I have done that many times. If you hate something, that is even easier, just don't read it again.

 

[Maid of Marvels]

My 2¢...

I for one don't believe these "stars" are accurate representations of the "readers'" opinions. It's someone with a lot of free time going from thread to thread and "voicing" their opinion as it were.

And while it may be "nice" gesture in someone's mind... I kind of liked NOT having stars by the threads I am in. Everyone gets a gold star, whether it is based on merit or not. It doesn't distinguish any one thread from the others, it just makes us all "run of the mill", yes?

I say take 'em away!

 

[caspai]

Thank you very much for your opinion on my subject, Maid of Marvels. And I agree with you, although none of the threads I am in have been rated. And PLEASE DON'T FEEL LIKE I AM ASKING THAT THEY HAVE IT DONE TO THEM!

 

[caspai]

I have just spent the past little while looking at the other boards. The general board doesn't have the rating column at all. The other boards, which do have them, don't have a single thread that has been rated by anyone. So what happened on SRP? How did this get started, and how can we stop it? If it can't be gotten rid of, what should we do? Go through and rate all of the threads? Give them all five star ratings, and then keep voting for them to keep them all up to five stars no matter what?

I don't want to ridicule anyone, but I am trying to understand this. I can appreciate someone really enjoying a thread, and seeing genius in the writing, wanting to give it a good rating. But to give a low rating, with no other possible feedback beyond the one star sitting there screaming "YOU SUCK!", I fail to see how this can be a legitimate scale to judge worth.

If I am beating a dead horse here, just pm me and say so, and I will let the subject die.

 

[DannyBoyUK]

I suspect you can only vote more than once if you are Unregistered and not logged in with your username as the system stores records - once (in error) I tried voting for a story I had already rated and I got the message that I had already voted and couldnt change my vote.

It would be useful if we could see who had voted for a particular thread (not necessarily to know what rating they'd given) just to see if it is the same members voting on all the threads.

 

[caspai]

I can't say one way or the other whether you can vote more than once for a thread. I find the system to be abhorrant. I would test your theory, DannyBoyUK, but I don't want to take part in the system. What my point is in this is to say that all writing on this or any other board has merit, regardless of the writing level of the person posting. The rating system has serious flaws, and I don't think that knowing who someone is who has cast a vote is going to help that. If five people have rated the thread, and the average rating is 1, then knowing the names of those people will cause even more hurt feelings and insecurities. I know someone who is very concerned with feedback, and is concerned about the star ratings and what they will say about their ability. It is stopping them from writing, and that is just WRONG!!! I say again, if you like a thread, or a writing style, pm the person and tell them so, and if you don't, just don't read the thread.

 

[Snork Maiden]

Hi Cas

My dime's worth,

Personally I don't think a star or what ever it is (I have the Mac theme) really matters one way or another. I personally don't choose the threads I want to read, by the number of accolades it proports to have achieved but by the Title and to some extent by the thread starter; the latter being more subjective than anything else.

The measure of a sucessful thread, I think, can be judged by its position long term on the board. Also by the number of posts it receives, to the number of views.

Since there is an option to list the threads in any order you choose the stars are really non consequential either way. If people want to vote on a thread fine; if a group of people want to do that to meet some need for gratification, I see no harm in that either.


Snork Maiden

catcha later

 

[SexyChele]

First, the only way you can vote more than one time on a thread is if you have several different user names. As I personally distrust people who have 2, 3, or more user names as being a little "dishonest", I treat their opinions the same way.

What really is the big deal about the rating system? And why should anyone care? If you have written stories here, then you know you get feedback all the time. Sometimes it's positive, sometimes it's a "the story sucked". Big deal.

And actually, there have been ratings since I've been here, over a year ago. The first one I saw was on an old thread I was in called "Hawkes" - it received something like a 5 star rating, and was very popular. So, the idea that this rating system "just started" is ridiculous.

Also, when the competition between the "China Pearl" and "Rick's Rooftop" began last November, the star rating popped up almost immediately. And, yes, Cas, you were here then. And I suspect you saw them at that time as well. I find it somewhat strange that when the "China Pearl" was receiving high marks at a time when you were very active in that thread, while the "Rooftop" was receiving lesser ratings, you said nothing. Now, when a certain number of your threads are receiving a lesser rating, we get this thread opened up. Why, Cas? Why does it bother you so much?

The reason the star rating system is not really used in the other boards is for the simple fact that people are either asking for feedback on certain stories, or, as in the case of the General Board, things move along too quickly for anyone to truly care.

On the SRP and on the ORP we are telling stories - very similiar to the stories being told in the main section of Lit. So why not give the readers an opportunity to voice their opinion anonomously? No harm done. If your thread receives a low rating, take a look at it. Try to do it objectively. Is there something about it that maybe might need improving? That's how we all become better writers.

What I have noticed is that the proliferation of "OOC Social Clubs" are receiving very low ratings. And on this I couldn't agree more. This place is about stories, not socialization. And if people are coming here to read on going storylines and are hit with thread after thread of innocuous, inane banter that nobody could give a rat's behind about, then people have the right to say "hey, this sucks".

When it comes down to it, I think the rash of "OOC Social Clubs" have more right to be taken off the SRP board than the rating system. Still am trying to figure out why they belong here.

But then, that's my .02 - and that is all it's worth.



Edited to say: The overwhelming number ratings on the board - which just occurred overnight - is more than likely the result of kids who have nothing better to do with their time. It would interesting to find out how many new members signed up last night. (I believe "Unregistereds" cannot vote) Hecate, ShyGuy, or Laurel could tell us that info. I suspect some one or ones registered last night and went through the board, giving low ratings to all - even valid OOC threads.

Frankly, I think the prank is quite harmless and funny. It will play itself out as the children behind it get bored with their game and move on.

 

[Snork Maiden]

OOC Social Clubs

I have to agree to some extent with what you say SexyChele, yes I do participate in a couple of these, but then again so do a lot of other people.

Whilst they don't constitute a story as such they could still in some ways be regarded Sexual Role Play, although in a less contrived way than the Plot line threads.

They do provide a service for some people, role playing is after all role playing. I think the OOC threads provide a gap between the RP and RL and also remove the unnecessary banter and narrative that can destroy a thread.

In my honest opinion perhaps a OOC or Social Club forum would be better. The problem is ofcourse that with no one to moderate new posted threads there is noting to stop anyone from creating a OOC thread in any forum.

Personally again I don't worry too much about those sorts of things, if I am having fun in one particular thread then that is really all that matters to me, hopefully I can meet people and friends along the way, not everyone gets along, Jeez if we did we could patent the formula and heal the World.

Voting not voting, doing what you like this is all 1st Amendment stuff isn't it.

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. '

Snork

 

[cgraven]

Well said Snork.

I write because I love to that it simple as pie. If you like it you read it if not you do not.

Choices and I am one for as many choices as possible.

 

[SexyChele]

Snork Maiden,
I can understand what you are saying, and I do post at the "Rooftop" on a somewhat regular basis.

But, if I really want to socialize, that is what the General Board or Author's Hangout is for. Or Pm. Or some form of Instant Messenger. There are places to socialize that don't have to involve the SRP. Quite frankly, I think Hecate and ShyGuy are generous in allowing them to continue here. There has already been one major "blow up" over the "Personals" board - we don't need it here.

I just think the "OOC Social Clubs", more often than not, are what inspire the "cliques" and "clubs" we see here at the SRP. They were not around when I first started, and there was more "equal footing" back in those days. Everyone posted with everyone, and there were very few closed threads. Now people have a tendency to post only with people they know. And normally those are people they are in the same "OOC Social Club" with.

That, I think, is sadder than some lame prank by immature children playing with rating system.

 

[BadForm]

OK, my two-penneth:

Rating system: Sucks. Problem nobody has mentioned yet (unless I don't know how to read it properly) is it only shows the mean of votes received. This is completely useless. Suppose a thread receives 5 one-star votes and 5 five-star votes, it comes out as a mediocre three-stars. What the actual votes are likely to mean is there are several people turned off by the thread whereas those who like the subject think the writing is good. This could be for a rape thread, a seniors thread, or many others that are peripheral to most people's interests.

OOC Clubs: Love them, am involved in one. Does it build up cliques? Well, to some extent it can do. Its a bunch of writers getting together who have shared and enjoyed each others work and want to chat. It can develop into net-friendships, and that's not a bad thing. As soon as you start to look at those threads you see instantly what they are so it's not like you can't tell. Oh, and as to whether cliques are a bad thing, actually I don't think they are - they're natural. You will always get some people who want to write with certain individuals, even if they are not in the same OOC thread together. I've had it happen with people I am not in an OOC club with at all. And it doesn't mean I won't write with others, it means I consider their stories before others in general. Again, not a bad thing if we're happy writing together.

 

[Snork Maiden]

In response to SexyChele:

Playing the Devil's Advocate

If that is the case then surely by definition this debate should also be on the General Board. Not everything in the world can be categorised into neat little boxes. Similarly the OOC threads themselves need to be in context.

For instance what constitutes a General Board Topic, something from Real Life, some thing from Role Play. Perhaps a serious question about writing prose or poetry.

I totally agree with what you say about cliiques and clubs, but life is like that isn't it. How many threads have I looked at, thought about joining and not, out of politeness, out of respect for the posters already in the thread. There has to be a modicum of decorum and respect for these people. One on One threads - closed threads, I have no problem with those either. Even if only 2 people are having fun and willing to share there imaginations with us all then they should be applauded not scorned. As I mentioned not all threads appeal to me. A 'rape' or 'father daughter' thread for instance wouldn't even get opened by myself
but I don't care that other might like to read it or participate if it is open.

But, if I really want to socialize, that is what the General Board or Author's Hangout is for. Or Pm. Or some form of Instant Messenger.

You know for months I had my ICQ on my profile, the only person that used it was Cibo <wave>

There are people here who are not as fluent or articulated in the ways they write, some feel embarassed or shy or awkward to post with total strangers. The fear of rejection, failure or even worse can be a very destructive thing. the 'Social Clubs serve a perpose in that these people too can gain the confidence to share their thoughts and live their fantasies, and they should be especially applauded.

Where does this end, I agree we don't want a blow up or people taking sides and all that teenage stuff, we're supposed to be adults. We should adopt some tolerance and respect for other peoples views and needs, surely this wonderful web site shouldn't need policing and dictators laying down the rules.

Will we have to spell check our posts before submission?, I hope not, I'll be dead in the water on line 1.

I really don't see any benefit in being destructively critical about any thread.

I still maintain that a good thread stands on it own merit. If an OOC thread works it will survive, if not it will fizzle and die. If an author thread; one on one is good and the posters can keep it going, then it will survive if not it will founder.

I think that's quite enough from me

Snork

 

[cgraven]

BadForm

I agree and as for not writing with some one if they are not a frequent visitor to the same OOC Thread. Well only in one of the many I write in am I presently writing with people that I post a the Pearl with. Oh 2 excuse me.

 

[SexyChele]

This is my last post here for the afternoon - real life is calling and that is far more interesting than staring at this computer monitor.

Any sort of creative endeavor that one puts forth in a public always brings about fear of rejection. That's just how it goes. The first story I posted at Lit caused me almost lose all my fingernails, I was so much on edge.

The first time I signed up for a SRP thread, I was sure I would look stupid and the others would toss me out. Even the second one. And the third. Quite possibly the fourth as well.

Then a strange thing happened. I began to have confidence in what I wrote. I realized that no one here was better than me, and I was no better than anyone else. I began to sign onto threads with more confidence. I developed friendships outside of this place. My writing improved greatly. I was more willing to take chances. I would seek out newer members and ask them to join a thread I had started.

And all this months before the first "OOC" thread opened.

It is possible. It is doable. I disagree that "OOC" threads are necessary to build confidence - confidence comes from within a person. Confidence comes from making mistakes, realizing them, and knowing others won't hold it against you. "OOC" threads are not required for that.

Yes, real life is full of cliques. But don't we all come here to get away from real life for awhile? I remember the cliques in high school. And, no, they were not a good thing. Never liked them, never cared for them, never saw any redeeming qualities in them. (Sorry, BadForm, you know I consider you to be a friend and good writer)

And, yes, this discussion should be taking place on the General Board, I agree. But I didn't start the thread - I'm only contributing to it.

 

[Snork Maiden]

Isn't this exactly what freedom of expression is all about the ability to state our opinions in a free and open forum

Whilst I do agree with what you say to some extent, I think you are confusing confidence with self-assurance.

You can, I agree develop self-confidence, but confidence itself is gained through trust and understanding of others.

One of the really nice attributes of this site is that everyone is polite and tolerant. How crushing do you think it would be if some one actually wrote and told you they thought your posts were bad or criticised your grammar.

Do you think you could survive on your own self-confidence. How much nicer it is when someone writes to you and tells you that they appreciate what you have written, doesn't that give you the confidence to write more.

When a father or mother congratulates a child on it's acheivement doesn't that instill confidence. Conversely if a parent rebuffs the child, tells them they are clumsy, that they will never amount to anything, can you honestly say that child will survive based on its own self-confidence. I don't think so.

I congratulate you on being able to post confidently. We do post, we do have the confidence to make mistakes and make fools of ourselfs, why? because we trust our peers not to make fun of us, that gives us the confidence.

There are hundreds of unregistered people, people who lurk in invisible mood, hundreds of potential contributors, maybe even a great writer waiting to blossom. These people need the help from the rest of the Lit community to step forward and share their imaginations with us to. If they see we are friendly or find a friendly group to join maybe they to will be instilled with the confidence to post.



Snork

 

[Swashbuckler]

My Couple of Cents

I have a few things to say on this subject, so please bare with me.

First, I would like to thank Cas for voicing her opinion on this. The Star system has been annoying me as well. And, as evidenced by the response to this thread, it would seem that a few others have given it some thought as well.

That said, it has been sujested that this discussion does not belong on the SRP board. I have to question that. Why not? This is an issue about this board, is it not? I think this discussion needs to be here. Had it been posted on the general board would all of those who posted before me have seen it? I doubt it. Just personal experience, since I started at Lit I have hardly ever read the genereal board. I have posted and read here, and here is where I found this thread as well. Also, those who frequent the general board and do not participate on this board would they even know what this discussion was about? In short I think this is posted where it needs to be, right here, on SRP.

Ari, had a great suggestion, get rid of the stars. That I also agree with. I do not see the point of the rating system. It could be inflated artificially for egos that need soothing. Conversely, someone could vote down a thread to play games. I think that it has no point in this forum; therefor, toss them out.

The main thing that the rating system gathers my ire, is the potential of new people coming to Lit and looking at SRP and seeing a boat load of poorl ranked threads scattered across the board. They might feel like there is no need to read or join SRP because everything here is of poor quality. I know 'shame on them for not investigating', but the fact remains that people may be turned away only because they saw a poor rating to a bunch of threads.

So I, if you will, vote agaisnt having the star system. *rolling my eyes*

Thanks,

~Swash~