Rape By Fraud - NJ Bill (A3908) 2014

[PayDay]

Caught this one in my local paper:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ss...maker_introduces_bill_to_make_it_a_crime.html

Earlier this month, state Assemblyman Troy Singleton (D-Burlington) introduced the bill (A3908), which would create the crime of “sexual assault by fraud,” which it defines as “an act of sexual penetration to which a person has given consent because the actor has misrepresented the purpose of the act or has represented he is someone he is not.”
...
“I truly believe that we have to look at the issue of rape as more than sexual contact without consent,” Singleton said. “Fraud invalidates any semblance of consent just as forcible sexual contact does. This legislation is designed to provide our state's judiciary with another tool to assess situations where this occurs and potentially provide a legal remedy to those circumstances.”

As written, the bill doesn’t consider sexual assault by fraud any less serious than other types of sexual assault that are already on the books. It could be a first degree or second degree crime depending on “the circumstances surrounding the act,” punishable with 10 to 20 years in prison in the former and 5 to 10 years in prison in the latter.

"The punishment aspect, that part we didn’t touch. The prosecutors and the judges and the jurors would be able to use discretion,” Singleton said.

Singleton said that he’s open to refining the bill so it’s not abused.

“It’s my intention, as the bill is moved through the amendment process, to ensure that while we allow for judicial discretion we don’t want unintended consequences,” he said.

I haven't found the actual text of NJ A3908 2014 yet, but I'll post it when I do.

 

[PayDay]

The dissenting opinion:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...or_legitimate_sexual_assault_legislation.html

this kind of legal overreach is a very bad idea. For one thing, Jordan*did*get convicted of a crime, suggesting that the legal response to men like him is already adequate. But more importantly, this law is so vague and wide-reaching that it's easy to see how pretty much everyone could be considered a rapist, because, as any quick perusing of OkCupid can tell you, representing yourself as someone you are not is a universal behavior. All of us are claiming we woke up like this, and we are all lying.*

Given that this law has very little chance of passing, it shouldn't matter much. But it does! Because it gives those who oppose any legislation attempting to address sexual abuse (affirmative consent laws, for instance) the ability to point and say:*Look, those crazies think everything is rape, even fibbing!

Rape is a fairly straightforward crime. It's a matter of having sex with someone who does not want to have sexat that moment in time. Despite claims to the contrary, affirmative consent supporters don't actually want to make it legal to retroactively retract consent. But this law would open the door to allowing people to do so, which actually does muddy the definition and understanding of rape. Jerks who exploit people's desire to be loved in order to defraud them can be convicted under other laws. Otherwise, relationship fouls are simply not criminal offenses.

 

[Balladeer08]

Caught this one in my local paper:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ss...maker_introduces_bill_to_make_it_a_crime.html



I haven't found the actual text of NJ A3908 2014 yet, but I'll post it when I do.

The specific language will be important. From what you had there, it kind of sounds like this is a crime only men can commit.

 

[Que Va]

~sings~

"I was a doctor, a Lawyer, a Senator's son...just about anything else I thought would get the job done..."

 

[PayDay]

The specific language will be important. From what you had there, it kind of sounds like this is a crime only men can commit.

Well I only snippet'd the good parts to appease the Laurel(s), but yeah, I dunno what to make of this.

It has validity, but at the same time has a high potential for abuse retroactively, which is what bothers me.

Imagine being subject to rape charges because someone shady wants revenge after the fact in spite of the fact that they consented.

How hard would it be to defend false pretenses? How hard would it be to charge someone with false pretense?

Singleton said that he’s open to refining the bill so it’s not abused.

“It’s my intention, as the bill is moved through the amendment process, to ensure that while we allow for judicial discretion we don’t want unintended consequences,” he said.

How do you prevent fraud in a law that criminalizes fraudulent action, and to what degree would be considered fraud?

Like meeting someone somewhere and bringing them to your house, but it turns out that your parents are on vacation or something and you live in the basement.

So everything was fine until the 'basement kid' bombshell, and then suddenly you have rape charges?

That's why I want to find the full text of the bill. This could be a dangerous weapon.

 

[patient1]

Bad idea. The courts have real crimes to consider.

Fraud. This is a can of worms.

Presumably this could be stretched to include driving a car you don't own, wearing a padded bra, lying about your age, height, weight, relationship status, employment, credit worthiness, mental health, date of last std test, using the "L" word....

Nobody could date unless they both were wearing polygrahs.

 

[PayDay]

Bad idea. The courts have real crimes to consider.

Fraud. This is a can of worms.

Presumably this could be stretched to include driving a car you don't own, wearing a padded bra, lying about your age, height, weight, relationship status, employment, credit worthiness, mental health, date of last std test, using the "L" word....

Nobody could date unless they both were wearing polygrahs.

Yeah... There's that, and then there's this----v

From the OP article:

Singleton decided to introduce the legislation after talking to Florence resident Mischele Lewis, who had been duped into paying $5,000 to her boyfriend, Cherry Hill resident William Allen Jordan, for what he claimed was a security clearance. Jordan said he was a British military official, but it turned out he was a serial bigamist and scam artist whopleaded guilty to defrauding Lewis on Nov. 10.

Prosecutors had initially tried to charge Jordan with sexual assault by coercion, but a grand jury refused to indict him on that charge.

Link to the criminal who 'insighted' this bill: http://www.burlingtoncountytimes.co...cle_dc2cc083-1f8e-519d-9bd6-da865c79603a.html

 

[bronzeage]

In any case of criminal fraud, what was gained by the fraudster and what was lost by the fraudee, are critical elements. How do we place a value on an incidence of sexual intercourse. What exactly has the victim lost?

 

[patient1]

Yeah... There's that, and then there's this----v

From the OP article:


Link to the criminal who 'insighted' this bill: http://www.burlingtoncountytimes.co...cle_dc2cc083-1f8e-519d-9bd6-da865c79603a.html

Financial fraud is prosecutable. There's no point in confusing it with rape, which is a serious violent crime.

 

[PayDay]

In any case of criminal fraud, what was gained by the fraudster and what was lost by the fraudee, are critical elements. How do we place a value on an incidence of sexual intercourse. What exactly has the victim lost?

...what's the gain of rape in the first place? This one really is in a tricky spot...

I believe it's intended to be treated as an act of rape and assault, not for monetary compensation, though if convicted of "Rape By Fraud" in a criminal court then the matter could be take to civil court for monetary compensation.

Basically to charge someone for lying in a way that is detrimental to the victim and compromises any consent that they had given makes sense, but what would the threshold be?

Clearly Elected officials see a need for this, and consent laws are all over the place right now.

If someone finds the bill, link it here.

 

[PayDay]

Financial fraud is prosecutable. There's no point in confusing it with rape, which is a serious violent crime.

"You just slept with the hottest girl you ever met, she even let you put it in her butt. Oh, BTW, it was a guy who had a sex change. So you kill yourself. Your family, discovering the situation, files charges against the transgendered individual."


That's----^ not valid rape by deception? What crime would it be? I don't remember ever hearing of law based on false pretenses.

 

[bronzeage]

...what's the gain of rape in the first place? This one really is in a tricky spot...

I believe it's intended to be treated as an act of rape and assault, not for monetary compensation, though if convicted of "Rape By Fraud" in a criminal court then the matter could be take to civil court for monetary compensation.

Basically to charge someone for lying in a way that is detrimental to the victim and compromises any consent that they had given makes sense, but what would the threshold be?

Clearly Elected officials see a need for this, and consent laws are all over the place right now.

If someone finds the bill, link it here.

So, a conviction could hang on the answer to, "Will you still love me tomorrow?"

 

[John Doe]

• I don't know
• This hurts my brain

+ it's a prickly pear.

I'll contemplate it and get back to you.

 

[dolf]

bad idea.
surely the courts will be flooded with married men who took their wedding rings off to get some poon? or men who broke off engagements?
this is a case of trying to legislate morality. dumb move.
and it trivialises actual rape.

fucksake

 

[patient1]

"You just slept with the hottest girl you ever met, she even let you put it in her butt. Oh, BTW, it was a guy who had a sex change. So you kill yourself. Your family, discovering the situation, files charges against the transgendered individual."


That's----^ not valid rape by deception? What crime would it be? I don't remember ever hearing of law based on false pretenses.

I think it's called sodomy, and illegal in many states and municipalities.

 

[John Doe]

I think it's called sodomy, and illegal in many states and municipalities.

That just makes it hotter.

 

[dolf]

"You just slept with the hottest girl you ever met, she even let you put it in her butt. Oh, BTW, it was a guy who had a sex change. So you kill yourself. Your family, discovering the situation, files charges against the transgendered individual."


That's----^ not valid rape by deception? What crime would it be? I don't remember ever hearing of law based on false pretenses.

it's not a guy who had a sex change, it's a woman who had to have her physical gender corrected. bigot.
i'd be more angry at the family, because the guy thought his consensual sex act would be judged so harshly by those around him that he couldn't face it. bigots.

 

[marshalt]

it's not a guy who had a sex change, it's a woman who had to have her physical gender corrected. bigot.
i'd be more angry at the family, because the guy thought his consensual sex act would be judged so harshly by those around him that he couldn't face it. bigots.

It would still be fraud under what is being proposed.

 

[dolf]

It would still be fraud under what is being proposed.

what is proposed is moronic.

there was a case a while back, in Israel, where a Palestinian man was jailed for having consensual sex with an Israeli woman without telling her he was Palestinian.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...led-for-rape-after-claiming-to-be-Jewish.html

is that where America wants to go?

 

[John Doe]

what is proposed is moronic.

there was a case a while back, in Israel, where a Palestinian man was jailed for having consensual sex with an Israeli woman without telling her he was Palestinian.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...led-for-rape-after-claiming-to-be-Jewish.html

is that where America wants to go?

Nope.

 

[knottygirl]

And the watering down of "rape" continues.

 

[Que Va]

So, a conviction could hang on the answer to, "Will you still love me tomorrow?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiqmBrWFu5k

What was with the 80s and unrequited love songs??? And country music now. Fuck that. Next.

 

[Boxlicker101]

~sings~

"I was a doctor, a Lawyer, a Senator's son...just about anything else I thought would get the job done..."

I'm a doctor. I'm a lawyer. I'm a movie star. I'm an astronaut and I own this bar.
And I'd lie to you for your love.

And, of course, the old standby: I can get you into the movies.

 

[dolf]

And the watering down of "rape" continues.

while real, actual rapists still walk if the girl was drunk, scantily clad, or deemed slutty.

 

[Magnetron]

So, a conviction could hang on the answer to, "Will you still love me tomorrow?"

then i'll say it. you're a fucking creepy loser who only uses the GB to be an asshole. please take your rape jokes back to the poetry forum. they are not wanted or needed here.

.....