racism, sexism, homophobia, but in context

[sanchopanza]

I gather that quite a few people would object to stories that have characters who are overtly racist, sexist, homophobic, misogynist . . . but is this only if it is done out of context? I'm writing a story in which some of the characters seem overtly racist and I don't want loads of shit from readers and the possibility of the story not being accepted here - do you think most people will understand if it is in context?

 

[Icingsugar]

If they are supposed to be racist,sexist et al for the sake of the story, I don't see why anyone would object. Do you portray those treats in the characters as a positive thing? If not, the only shit you are going to get is from readers who don't get the point. And those readers don't really matter, now do they?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

A character is a character. If you write about a group of skinheads and they don't spuot thier philospohy they aren't going to be very realistic characters. That said, it has been noted that many readers assume the author of every story is writing about their own experiences. If you write a racist character, you are going to offend. If you write a sexist, misogynistic or homophobic character you are going to offend. I get bad feedback and low votes all the time for portraying men in a bad light in my stories. Some people just want to be offended.

The idea that I am portraying a husband who has lost touch with his wife's needs as a SETUP for her to try something diffferent is lost on these people. They seem to assume my characterizations are my own personal feelings towards men and get offended. No matter what you write you will ofend some. If you write more controversial characters, you will engender more controversy, context notwithstanding.

-Colly

 

[Svenskaflicka]

There's a difference between making a character alive through his lines, and having a character spew out opinions when they're not called for.

I'd say, be careful with the direct lines, instead hint that he's thinking this or that, or he has this or that opinion.

 

[sanchopanza]

The story has about 6 main characters who are all based on people I know. One of the characters is black (and without a doubt the best character) but the thing is he overshadows my character so I am killing him off at the end - and some racial abuse is used.

 

[LorriLove]

hiya

The story has about 6 main characters who are all based on people I know. One of the characters is black (and without a doubt the best character) but the thing is he overshadows my character so I am killing him off at the end - and some racial abuse is used.

you can't write a fiction or even fact based story and make it work if you've got to be politically bloody correct.
i'm not racist, but i understand some people are, i'd rather know the truth than have some wishy washy crap trying to pull the wool over my eyes.

you will get idiots who can't tell fact from fiction, and you will get idiots who can't face the real world, sorry honey they must be put on ignore.

we, hubby and i, have asian and black friends who are offended by overly politically correct anti racism, they want the truth told as well. fact of life is, no matter how many laws are passed, if someone's racist, there's no way you'll chamge their attitude by force only deepen their unreasonable attitude. education and telling the truth is what's needed not censorship.

 

[Dirty Slut]

Fuck Politically Correct!

A writer must be true to themself if they are going to write honestly. The more you make the characters real, the more the readers gets into the story with you. If you want to write mamby pamby dribble for yourself that's fine. But if you intend to publish your work, then expect people to react to it. Remember you can't please everyone, no matter how hard you try. But those stories that last the longest in my mind are those that challenge me to see the truth, and I expect it is that way with everyone.

DS

 

[the brothers cum]

It all depends how the pieces come together. In a story, no element should be accidental. Every element of every character must propel the story forward. Therefore, if in a story, a character who is racist towards asian people, suddenly finds that to achieve his objective he has to bargain with a group of Koreans, it is interesting to the story because it complicates the situation.

On the other hand, if it is an entirely extraneous. For instance, if in the novel 'Oliver Twist', Oliver just happened to hate Asian people it would be extraneous, not for political, but for plot oriented reasons. I would be just as against Oliver Twist harbouring the desire to become a ballerina because it has nothing to do with the novel's story.

Similarly, in your story, I would suggest you ask what do the racist elements do to the narrative. Do they serve a purpose, or are they just there for the hell of it?

The only case in which I think political considerations may come into play is when the piece you are writing has a specific market in which these things 'should be addressed' (though the 'should' is subjective to each author). For example, in writing a children's book, it might be a strange choice to have racist or sexist derrogatives used.

Finally, I would like to say that having racist characters is not racist at all. The only place where criticism could be expressed is if, for instance, all the white characters were intelligent and virtuous and all the non-white characters were stupid and evil. Many 19th Century novels had this very problem (and early detective novels with stupid women among clever men had the same problem). Stereotyping is entirely different from having racist characters and stereotyping, or judging, (as you write the black character you plan to kill off) is all you should be wary for.

Which is not to say that one can never write evil, stupid, minority characters? It is only if these are the only traits used to define them that it is a stereotype (and bad writing). A character who is immoral in business, but passionate in defending their own family is interesting and not a stereotype. A character who is stupid intellectually but adept socially, is interesting and not a stereotype.

 

[Madame Manga]

Disclaimers generally cover your butt pretty well, I find. I've had occasion to use them--I recall one story in a WWII setting explicitly based on 1940s war movies. The first-person narrator was an American GI, and I simply couldn't hear him referring to Japanese nationals or Germans as anything but "Japs" or "Krauts". Nothing else made sense--that was the vocabulary. I put a note to that effect at the top before I posted the story on a Usenet forum and on my website, and I haven't had a complaint so far. I think I wrote that one in 1997.

MM

 

[Seattle Zack]

Some of the best known characters in literature are vile racist homophibic sexist mysoginists. A compelling character is an interesting character -- it doesn't mean you want him at your dinner table. Lawrence Sanders and Thomas Harris made a living writing about serial killers.

Redemption, even failed redemption, is a tried and true theme in fiction. In context, like you mentioned, it's not out of line. A slave owner using a racial epithet, or a right-wing politician engaging in gay-bashing, for instance would certainly be valid.

 

[Quasimodem]

... For instance, if in the novel 'Oliver Twist', Oliver just happened to hate Asian people it would be extraneous, not for political, but for plot oriented reasons...

ROTFLMASOASTC!!!

You wrote that apun purpose, right!

 

[deliciously_naughty]

I'm working on a novel set in New Orleans in 1822, and my protagonist is an octoroon (in the parlance of the time, 1/8 black, 7/8ths white) and she deals with the prejudice of her time in several instances that are vital to the plot line. It's not like I could write it without racial tensions flaring and have it even be close to realistic. So yeah, if it's related to the story, then it's related to the story.

And if someone sends you a mean or ignorant email, I have a suggestion...send them what looks like a form response "Thank you for your wonderful feedback. Favorable feedback is always the highlight of my deay."

 

[Dirty Slut]

How do you send to annonymous???

I'm working on a novel set in New Orleans in 1822, and my protagonist is an octoroon (in the parlance of the time, 1/8 black, 7/8ths white) and she deals with the prejudice of her time in several instances that are vital to the plot line. It's not like I could write it without racial tensions flaring and have it even be close to realistic. So yeah, if it's related to the story, then it's related to the story.

And if someone sends you a mean or ignorant email, I have a suggestion...send them what looks like a form response "Thank you for your wonderful feedback. Favorable feedback is always the highlight of my deay."

 

[sweetnpetite]

you ignore anonymous

 

[Dirty Slut]

I was being sarcastic....

LOL

 

[sweetnpetite]

well, ypu dirty slut!

 

[Svenskaflicka]

an octoroon (in the parlance of the time, 1/8 black, 7/8ths white)

I had no idea there was such a word.

 

[Guest]

I had no idea there was such a word.

It wasn't just 'parlance', it was a legal term. When inter-breeding among the races began the law insured the white bits received as much credit (=status, money, rights) as possible. THAT's the foundation on which the U.S. was created (vs. equality as noted in the poilitcal ass thread).

Perdita

 

[MathGirl]

I've always felt that bigotry, racial hatred, and genocide are perfectly alright, as long as they are done nicely, with acceptable manners, and in good taste.
MG

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I had no idea there was such a word.

The common term for an octoroon was High Yellow. Many freedmen were high yellows, usually the child of a house servant and the plantation owner or his immideate family. In the pecking order on the big plantations octoroons had the most status as they were "more white" than their fellows. Often they ended up in positions of some authority such as overseer or straw boss. Ocasionally they were even educated and served as accountants, bookeepers and other skilled positions.

Many could and did pass for whites, although it was a dangerous game to do so.

-Colly

 

[Svenskaflicka]

ROFL

MyGAWD!

If it wasn't so sad, I'd laugh my ass off.

 

[Dirty Slut]

Hmmmmm....

My great, great, great grandmother on my mother's side was half cheyenne, half white, and she married a high yellow buffalo soldier. Their daughter, my great, great grandmother on my mother's side, married an Irishman. Their daughter, my great grandmother on my mother's side married a spanish/china man. My grandmother in turn married a german, and my mother married my father whose family is a mixture of european decent. I guess you could say that I'm an all American dirty slut, eh.

DS