Race and the White House

dr_mabeuse

seduce the mind
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
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The racial fears that could lose Obama the White house don't come from the Republicans. They won't vote for a Democrat whether he's black, white, or chartreuse. They're from the Democrats

From an article in Yahoo News (See the link for the results of the poll)

Poll: Racial views steer some white Dems away from Obama
By RON FOURNIER and TREVOR TOMPSON, Associated Press Writers

WASHINGTON (AP) — Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles. [my italians -- dr.M.]

The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points.

Certainly, Republican John McCain has his own obstacles: He's an ally of an unpopular president and would be the nation's oldest first-term president. But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.

Adjectives that describe blacks

More than a third of all white Democrats and independents — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views.

Such numbers are a harsh dose of reality in a campaign for the history books. Obama, the first black candidate with a serious shot at the presidency, accepted the Democratic nomination on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, a seminal moment for a nation that enshrined slavery in its Constitution.

"There are a lot fewer bigots than there were 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean there's only a few bigots," said Stanford political scientist Paul Sniderman who helped analyze the exhaustive survey.

The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans.

The findings suggest that Obama's problem is close to home — among his fellow Democrats, particularly non-Hispanic white voters. Just seven in 10 people who call themselves Democrats support Obama, compared to the 85 percent of self-identified Republicans who back McCain.[--dr.M.]

The survey also focused on the racial attitudes of independent voters because they are likely to decide the election.

Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president — white, black or brown.

Not all whites are prejudiced. Indeed, more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama.

On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.

Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.

Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain.

Still, the effects of whites' racial views are apparent in the polling.

Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice.

But in an election without precedent, it's hard to know if such models take into account all the possible factors at play.

The AP-Yahoo News poll used the unique methodology of Knowledge Networks, a Menlo Park, Calif., firm that interviews people online after randomly selecting and screening them over telephone. Numerous studies have shown that people are more likely to report embarrassing behavior and unpopular opinions when answering questions on a computer rather than talking to a stranger.

Other techniques used in the poll included recording people's responses to black or white faces flashed on a computer screen, asking participants to rate how well certain adjectives apply to blacks, measuring whether people believe blacks' troubles are their own fault, and simply asking people how much they like or dislike blacks.

"We still don't like black people," said John Clouse, 57, reflecting the sentiments of his pals gathered at a coffee shop in Somerset, Ohio.

Given a choice of several positive and negative adjectives that might describe blacks, 20 percent of all whites said the word "violent" strongly applied. Among other words, 22 percent agreed with "boastful," 29 percent "complaining," 13 percent "lazy" and 11 percent "irresponsible." When asked about positive adjectives, whites were more likely to stay on the fence than give a strongly positive assessment.

Among white Democrats, one third cited a negative adjective and, of those, 58 percent said they planned to back Obama.

The poll sought to measure latent prejudices among whites by asking about factors contributing to the state of black America. One finding: More than a quarter of white Democrats agree that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites."

Those who agreed with that statement were much less likely to back Obama than those who didn't.

Among white independents, racial stereotyping is not uncommon. For example, while about 20 percent of independent voters called blacks "intelligent" or "smart," more than one third latched on the adjective "complaining" and 24 percent said blacks were "violent."

Nearly four in 10 white independents agreed that blacks would be better off if they "try harder."

The survey broke ground by incorporating images of black and white faces to measure implicit racial attitudes, or prejudices that are so deeply rooted that people may not realize they have them. That test suggested the incidence of racial prejudice is even higher, with more than half of whites revealing more negative feelings toward blacks than whites.

Researchers used mathematical modeling to sort out the relative impact of a huge swath of variables that might have an impact on people's votes — including race, ideology, party identification, the hunger for change and the sentiments of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's backers.

Just 59 percent of her white Democratic supporters said they wanted Obama to be president. Nearly 17 percent of Clinton's white backers plan to vote for McCain.

Among white Democrats, Clinton supporters were nearly twice as likely as Obama backers to say at least one negative adjective described blacks well, a finding that suggests many of her supporters in the primaries — particularly whites with high school education or less — were motivated in part by racial attitudes.

The survey of 2,227 adults was conducted Aug. 27 to Sept. 5. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points.
 
I live in a small, rural town... 98% caucasian. There's rampant racism still here... and this isn't the south. I'm not really surprised, but it is sad.

And there's really not a damned thing you can do about it, except keep talking.

My oldest two kids (who live with their upper-middle-class father and hear lots of his views) said to me on two separate occasions: "I'd worry about Obama getting elected, because someone's going to shoot him."

Yikes.

Wonder where they got that idea? Certainly could have been my ex. Probably their extremely racist "blacks make their bed, now they have to lie in it" grandmother. Racism is ingrained into folks like food tastes in a family.

Few break from the mold. I had a truck driving father who literally used the N-word and the term "porch monkey" on a daily basis. (We lived a hop skip and a jump from Detroit...)
 
If Obama isnt careful he risks making the election a test of how popular blacks are in America.
 
The strangest part is, if a moderate ran, ie Colin Powell, he would win a large chunk of the South. The South is not willing to vote for an extreme left candidate overall. Remember, Obama has the furthest left voting record of all the Senators.
 
The strangest part is, if a moderate ran, ie Colin Powell, he would win a large chunk of the South. The South is not willing to vote for an extreme left candidate overall. Remember, Obama has the furthest left voting record of all the Senators.

That's true, but Obama is actually a very cautious man. Look at who he had at his council of economic advisors: Warren Buffet, Paul O'Neal, Paul Volcker, Robert Rubin, amongst others. The more conservative economists from Clinton and from Bush I.

Anyway you slice it now, the days of deficit spending and big tax cuts are over. We've seen where that's gotten us, and his hands are pretty much tied as far as "tax and spend". We're going to be digging ourselves out of this Republican hole for years to come.

Maybe it's just as well he doesn't win because there are some seriously grim years ahead.

One thing's for sure. McCain's not going to balance the budget by "closing loopholes" and stopping earmarks. That's just a drop in the bucket.
 
That's true, but Obama is actually a very cautious man. Look at who he had at his council of economic advisors: Warren Buffet, Paul O'Neal, Paul Volcker, Robert Rubin, amongst others. The more conservative economists from Clinton and from Bush I.

Anyway you slice it now, the days of deficit spending and big tax cuts are over. We've seen where that's gotten us, and his hands are pretty much tied as far as "tax and spend". We're going to be digging ourselves out of this Republican hole for years to come.

Maybe it's just as well he doesn't win because there are some seriously grim years ahead.

One thing's for sure. McCain's not going to balance the budget by "closing loopholes" and stopping earmarks. That's just a drop in the bucket.

You are forgetting McCain's master plan to sell Alaska to Exxon.

Oh, wait... Palin already did that didn't she. Nevermind...
 
Racism, is still rampant in America. I was born and raised in Detroit. Believe me, racism goes both ways. There are as many black racist as there are white, if not more. I have many, many black friends and I know they agree with me. We've talked about it many times over the years.

Whenever I hear about racist, they always seem to be white. Why is that? I do believe we all have a little racist in us. It's part of our life. I have friends in mixed marriages that would tell you the same thing.

What percentage of blacks will vote for Obama compared to percentage of whites voting for McCain. I'm sure it's not all about the issues.
 
DOC

I just read Robert Rubin's biography, he says he's liberal and I believe what he says. But he also said something that impressed me...there are Republican communists who want to control the economy just like Democrat communists want to control the economy.

To my way of thinking Bush, Kennedy, Cheney, Gore et al are communists who want a command economy controlled by themselves.
 
DG

I dont think real racism exists in America these days. That is, I cant believe anyone is dum enough to believe cosmetic appearance affects thoughts and action.

But ethnocentrism (clans and tribes) are alive and well.
 
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Racism, is still rampant in America. I was born and raised in Detroit. Believe me, racism goes both ways. There are as many black racist as there are white, if not more. I have many, many black friends and I know they agree with me. We've talked about it many times over the years.

Whenever I hear about racist, they always seem to be white. Why is that? I do believe we all have a little racist in us. It's part of our life. I have friends in mixed marriages that would tell you the same thing.

What percentage of blacks will vote for Obama compared to percentage of whites voting for McCain. I'm sure it's not all about the issues.

Most Blacks will vote for Obama, but they would vote for almost any Democrat. I still remember the Dem. primaries, where Obama carried 90% or so of the black vote. That was what won him the nomination, winning in most of the southern states.

I wouldn't call it racism, but I am sure his race was a major factor for many of those black voters n the primaries.
 
Question: What do you think would happen if Colin Powell were the candidate? My guess is that there would be a whole lot less of this sort of thing. Why is that, do you think? My guess is that when people say "race" in this country there is a large component of that which is really culture. Obama's heritage is not theirs, but culturally he is identified with the the people he sat alongside in that church for 20 years. It's very difficult to imagine Colin Powell sitting in that church for 20 years.
 
Question: What do you think would happen if Colin Powell were the candidate? My guess is that there would be a whole lot less of this sort of thing. Why is that, do you think? My guess is that when people say "race" in this country there is a large component of that which is really culture. Obama's heritage is not theirs, but culturally he is identified with the the people he sat alongside in that church for 20 years. It's very difficult to imagine Colin Powell sitting in that church for 20 years.

How often did Obama attend, I wonder? Weekly? Monthly? The C & E Club?

The pastor is not the church. Shouldn't be.

We recently changed pastors - I'm okay with the new one, still adjusting. But even though I liked the pastor we had, every once in awhile he'd go off on some serious tangent in a sermon topic that would piss me off.

It wouldn't make me think, it would actually make me mad.

But we stayed for the people, our friends, and for our kids, and because, for a time, I directed the choir.

I don't think Colin Powell really figures into this at all. His life hasn't been dissected so we hardly know what his church history has been.

I do believe race is an issue in this election.

But I think gender would have been a larger issue. Many more sexists than racists out there.
 
Actually we do. Colin Powell is an earnest, faithful Episcopalian, hardly surprising from a four-star general. What Obama hasn't done is convince America that he is the bi-racial sort of person that he really is. Heck, the man's father left when he was two and he was raised by his white mother's family and yet, somehow, he is perceived of as this radical, urban black. I don't understand.
 
Actually we do. Colin Powell is an earnest, faithful Episcopalian, hardly surprising from a four-star general. What Obama hasn't done is convince America that he is the bi-racial sort of person that he really is. Heck, the man's father left when he was two and he was raised by his white mother's family and yet, somehow, he is perceived of as this radical, urban black. I don't understand.

Neo-con attack dogs are very good.
 
VM

The point is Obama acts like a homey from the hood with Ghetto-swagger, and Colin Powell doesnt.
 
How often did Obama attend, I wonder? Weekly? Monthly? The C & E Club?

The pastor is not the church. Shouldn't be.

We recently changed pastors - I'm okay with the new one, still adjusting. But even though I liked the pastor we had, every once in awhile he'd go off on some serious tangent in a sermon topic that would piss me off.

It wouldn't make me think, it would actually make me mad.

But we stayed for the people, our friends, and for our kids, and because, for a time, I directed the choir.

I don't think Colin Powell really figures into this at all. His life hasn't been dissected so we hardly know what his church history has been.

I do believe race is an issue in this election.

But I think gender would have been a larger issue. Many more sexists than racists out there.

We're talking politics, Sarah, which means how he is perceived by millions of strangers. I suspect that Obama's membership in that church was judged by him to be politically advantageous for a young, ambitious Chicago politician. I have no idea what he really thought of it or Wright, any more than anyone else does. But he made that bed - and it served him well for many years - so now he has to sleep in it.
 
We're talking politics, Sarah, which means how he is perceived by millions of strangers. I suspect that Obama's membership in that church was judged by him to be politically advantageous for a young, ambitious Chicago politician. I have no idea what he really thought of it or Wright, any more than anyone else does. But he made that bed - and it served him well for many years - so now he has to sleep in it.

Strangely enough I do understand it's about politics, Rox. But thanks for the reminder.

I suppose it's a pity it cannot be about something substantive.

Made his bed and has to lie in it. Oh, goodie. Does that work both ways, politically?
 
How often did Obama attend, I wonder? Weekly? Monthly? The C & E Club?

The pastor is not the church. Shouldn't be.

We recently changed pastors - I'm okay with the new one, still adjusting. But even though I liked the pastor we had, every once in awhile he'd go off on some serious tangent in a sermon topic that would piss me off.

It wouldn't make me think, it would actually make me mad.

But we stayed for the people, our friends, and for our kids, and because, for a time, I directed the choir.

I don't think Colin Powell really figures into this at all. His life hasn't been dissected so we hardly know what his church history has been.

I do believe race is an issue in this election.

But I think gender would have been a larger issue. Many more sexists than racists out there.

In a recent interview, he said it was a couple of times a month.
 
Neo-con attack dogs are very good.

That's too simple. It had to be to his perceived advantage to be Black all the time he was coming up. Whether there was any Affirmative Action involved, I neither know nor care. Perhaps he felt that he had no choice, given his skin and features. That could certainly be.

What is critical, and should be of great concern to his backers, is that at no time in this election has he ever been as far ahead as he should have been. Who is in front depends mostly on which poll you are looking at. IMO, it's a toss-up. It should not be a toss-up. The GOP has so thoroughly offended the American public that their candidate should be grasping at straws instead of very much in the race and having a good chance of winning. Why could Obama not develop the kind of general backing that Powell had?

One reason, of course, is that Powell is a Republican, and a moderate one a that. Thus he is safe to mid-America. Additionally, he is a general, and a very capable one. He has a life-time of accomplishments, even before Desert Storm.

Obama has nearly nothing. He's a Senator. All they do is talk. Have Americans give you a cartoon image of a U.S. Senator and they will call up Loony Tunes Foghorn Leghorn (who was modeled after a real Senator!). McCain, if he wins, won't be elected because he was a Senator but because he was a senior military commander. That is political gold in the U.S.
 
That's too simple. It had to be to his perceived advantage to be Black all the time he was coming up. Whether there was any Affirmative Action involved, I neither know nor care. Perhaps he felt that he had no choice, given his skin and features. That could certainly be.

What is critical, and should be of great concern to his backers, is that at no time in this election has he ever been as far ahead as he should have been. Who is in front depends mostly on which poll you are looking at. IMO, it's a toss-up. It should not be a toss-up. The GOP has so thoroughly offended the American public that their candidate should be grasping at straws instead of very much in the race and having a good chance of winning. Why could Obama not develop the kind of general backing that Powell had?

One reason, of course, is that Powell is a Republican, and a moderate one a that. Thus he is safe to mid-America. Additionally, he is a general, and a very capable one. He has a life-time of accomplishments, even before Desert Storm.

Obama has nearly nothing. He's a Senator. All they do is talk. Have Americans give you a cartoon image of a U.S. Senator and they will call up Loony Tunes Foghorn Leghorn (who was modeled after a real Senator!). McCain, if he wins, won't be elected because he was a Senator but because he was a senior military commander. That is political gold in the U.S.

From what I have read about Obama, he wanted to get into politics and decided that his youth, intelligence and blackness would do him the most good in Chicago, and that's why he went there. Until then, he had never been in Illinois.

Edited to add: Here is a link in support of what I said above:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#Early_life_and_career

You may have to do a little reading between the lines.
 
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From what I have read about Obama, he wanted to get into politics and decided that his youth, intelligence and blackness would do him the most good in Chicago, and that's why he went there. Until then, he had never been in Illinois.

So, in the short term it worked well. But in the longer picture, perhaps it was a bad choice. Ah, our crystal balls are all so foggy . . .
 
One thing's for sure. McCain's not going to balance the budget by "closing loopholes" and stopping earmarks. That's just a drop in the bucket.
Hold the Senators and Reps from your state accountable. How many of them brag about "for every dollar in taxes sent to Washington I bring back $1.50"? Which state are they depriving? That is where most of the deficit comes from and a very large chunk is earmarks.

Anyone that truly wants change will vote against every incumbant at every level of government. Untill all the clowns in DC and the state Capitols are replaced, things will continue to get worse. No matter who is in the White House.

Insanity - doing the same things the same way and expecting different results.
 
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