Questions about descriptions for charatcers.

[The Lionheart]

For anyone who doesn't want to read all this, I'm basically asking if you all think that my character descriptions are too much (or too brief). Should I shorten, lengthen, or leave them the same. I'm not really sure, as I've gotten a rather mixed response.

Note: I'm a guy, and I have a decidedly more difficult time describing male characters (I kind of want to just get it out of the way) so meh.

Okay, well I've been writing for ages now, but I've just recently began to try my hand at erotica. I've always been rather long winded in my descriptions of characters, but now that I'm doing eroticas, a primary change has been that I've found I'm putting more attention into the characters bodies and faces. The reason being that most of the time I have a very specific character in mind, and I try to describe those people exactly. The following are a description of a male and female character I just made up. These are less extreme cases mind you, as I've been known to go on for a half page abbout one character:




A guy:

Ryan Lashae stood 5’10, 175 pounds, and was the embodiment of what one could become by adhering to a grueling exercise schedule day in and day out. With brown hair styled in a crew cut and burning green eyes, at 24-almost 25 Ryan was the eldest son of the late Maxwell Lashae, and along with his 23 year old twin brother and sister, had inherited one of the largest fortunes ever accumulated by one man. Ryan never had to, or never would have to work, but was a slaver. (etc....I hit the plot point here)



And now a girl:

At 20 years old, Ashley had been a college student, who was originally from Dallas, and had moved out to Malibu for College. Ashley Lockhart was tall, blonde and pretty. At 5’7, 122 pounds, the attractive blonde had light, blue gray eyes, a distinguished (rather large) nose, full lips and a beautiful smile. A prominent chin rounded out an attractive, (although far from perfect) face. She had shoulder length, white blonde hair, and an ample C cup bosom, round, attractive buttocks, and shapely legs. An eye-catching torso rounded out a striking body.
Ashley was a pleasant soul. She was nice to everyone and everyone loved her, as she had the ability to light up the room with her presence, and was a joy to be around. Admired by her peers and all around her, she was the all American teenager, seemingly gifted with the very rare combination of brains and beauty.

I've heard that I shouldn't use cup sizes or bra measurements from some people, and: "She had blue eyes, blonde hair and nice tits" is enough of a description for a character. What do you guys think? I like to be descriptive, but I don't want to bore the reader.

 

[Weird Harold]

Reward Posters.

A guy:

Ryan Lashae stood 5’10, 175 pounds, and was the embodiment of what one could become by adhering to a grueling exercise schedule day in and day out. With brown hair styled in a crew cut and burning green eyes, at 24-almost 25 Ryan was the eldest son of the late Maxwell Lashae, and along with his 23 year old twin brother and sister, had inherited one of the largest fortunes ever accumulated by one man. Ryan never had to, or never would have to work, but was a slaver. (etc....I hit the plot point here)



And now a girl:

At 20 years old, Ashley had been a college student, who was originally from Dallas, and had moved out to Malibu for College. Ashley Lockhart was tall, blonde and pretty. At 5’7, 122 pounds, the attractive blonde had light, blue gray eyes, a distinguished (rather large) nose, full lips and a beautiful smile. ...

I like to be descriptive, but I don't want to bore the reader.

Both of your descriptions read like reward posters. This is, IMHO, a "bad thing."

In particular the description of Ryan contains too much information, some of which I doubt that you'll ever actually use in the story or only use peripherally.

For example, the source of his great wealth is not really relevant to anything at this point and we don't need to know about his siblings until they become part of the story.

For me, the best way to build a character is to write out your reward poster so you know know who you're describing, but do NOT put it into the story. In the story, reveal small details about each character as they become relevant or as other characters discover them in the context of the story.

The kind of character description I prefer is actually more character development, but it allows me to get to know a character the same way that I get to know someone in real life -- one tidbit at a time.

When I encounter a lump-sum description of a character I always feel like there is going to be a test later or I should ask how much the reward is.

 

[doormouse]

In a thread once I read that you look at a person and describe the first four things you notice about them.

Here's a 'How To' I copied and pasted.... sorry, can't remember the Author, but they deserve the credit. I live by this.

Characters:

------- Character Questions -------

Who are their parents? Did they know their parents? Where are their Mom and Dad from? Did they work, what was their profession? Who was your character closest to? Mom or Dad? Did they have any Aunts or Uncles? Were the Aunts or Uncles living with the family? Close to the family? Did they know their grandparents?

When were they born? Are they immigrants? First generation? Second? Did they have brothers or sisters? What were their names? How many of each? Where did your character lie in the family tree? Youngest sibling? Oldest? Middle child? Which sibling was closest to your character? What did they do together?

Did the family have a pet? What was its name? What kind of animal was it? Did it live in the house? Who took care of it? Did they have more than one pet? Who was closest to it? When did it die? Is it still alive? Who takes care of it now? Did it have any good/bad habits? What was your character's relationship with the family pet?

When your character was a child what was their favorite thing to do? How often did they get to do it? Were they artistic? Mathematical? Curious? Conservative? Shy? Were they scared of anything when they were young? If so, did anyone help them with that?

What is their health like? Do they have any allergies? Are they robust? Athletic? Frail? What are their personal habits like? Are they clean? Tidy? Well-groomed? Or not?

What were their favorite clothes? What did they like to eat? Were their family meals or did everyone eat separately?

Who were their friends? Who was their best friend when they were nine years old? Around the age of nine-ten, they learned something valuable from their parent. What was it and what happened? Where did the family live? Did they live in a house, apartment, ranch, condo? What kind of things did the family have? Cars? TVs? Rich? Poor? Was the family close to any other families?

Where did they go to school? Who was their teacher? their favorite teacher? What did they like to study? Were they a voracious reader? Or did they shy away from it? Why? Did they participate in any school functions? Plays? Teams? Clubs?

Around the age of thirteen-fourteen some event occurred in their lives that made them think about what they might do in life. What was that event? How did it effect them? Who else was there?

Who did they date in highschool? Who was their favorite person? Who did they stay away from? Why? What was their life like in highschool?

Did they go to college? What did they study? Did they get to travel abroad? What was their first job out of college? Was it in their chose profession? Who did they work for? Did they like them? Did they get any opportunities? Responsibility?

If the character is older, you will need to answer more questions.

Did they get married? Who did they marry? How did they meet? What is their family like - the In-laws?

Did they have children? What were the children's names? Are the children still alive? How did having a family effect who they were? Did they change jobs?

How did their career progress? Did they move up? Down? Stagnant?

Is their spouse still alive? What is their job/profession?

Are they still married? Divorced? If divorced, did they/would they get re-married? If so, then to whom?

------- Finish the above questions first, then answer the following:

What is their point-of-view? What is their view of the world? Are they optimistic? pessimistic? Does the world belong to them? Or does it treat them badly?

Who is/was their mentor? Who is the person in their life who teaches/taught them the most about life? About their profession? About being a person? About being themselves?

What are their professional relationships? In their career/work, whom do they get along with? How do they treat those who work with them? Is there someone's whose work that theirs compliments? Is their someone whose work that theirs is at conflict with?

What is their attitude? Are they dark? Carefree? Sarcastic? Straight-shooter? Hate the world? Love it? What do they expect out of their job? their relationship? their life?

What is their Belief System? Do they think that hard work will get them what they want? Do they believe the Universe is a random series of events? Or is it pre-ordained?

What is their Emotional Change? During the story, your character will learn something new that will change them. How do they change? How do they begin? Are they sad at the beginning and happy at the end? Or what?

What is their Dramatic Need? What do they want to get? Is it money, fame, wealth, power, love? Riches? The death of another? Saving someone dear? What is it?

---------------------------------------

Now that you've finished writing your Character Biography, you will know your character very well. So well, in fact, that if you breathe deeply and meditate on them for a moment, you can see them.

Meditation: turn the lights down low, sit quietly in a comfortable chair, breath slowly and deeply and close your eyes. You see a path leading through a park. Follow it. You come to a river. The river flows gently and lazily downstream. The path leads along the shore of the river. There's a bench overlooking the park and the river. Please sit down and relax, taking in the scenery - the trees, the flowers. Smell the air. You can smell plants, the flowers, the river and a bit of ocean from somewhere nearby. A person approaches down the path. It's your character. They sit down on the bench with you. Just be with them for a moment. Let them sit there and do what they will.

After meditation: Turn the lights back up and get out a paper and pen. Write down your experience. What did your character do? How did they sit? Did they ask you anything? Did they tell you anything? Does the experience have any significance for your story?

-----------------------------------------------------

The questions and the meditation are methods for getting your mind out of the way and letting the character step out of you. Once you've done these exercises, you will have a very good understanding of this person who lives in your mind. You will know what they will say, how they will say it and what they will do. Some of the items you have come up with may be items you need to include in your story. They might be very significant and interesting.

Have fun with this. The characters are inside, waiting to meet you.

 

[doormouse]

Okay... have to add.

here's a poor example:

She leaned against the bar. Her long blonde ringlets swayed at her slender waist as she shook her head. Diana's perky breasts strained against the sheer fabric of her blouse as she arched her back in readiness. With her long slender legs crossed in front of her, she gave a seductive wink in my direction....

 

[Alex De Kok]

The 'How-To' Doormouse describes is, I think, from Judo. I have a copy somewhere, too. My early work suffers from overkill on description, now I imply and I think I'm better for it.

Alex

 

[doormouse]

Thanks, Alex.

Overkill is the word.

Rumple Foreskin once pointed it out in one of my stories, and I learned a LOT from that one simple explanation (Thank You RF)

Buggered if I can think of who said it on here, about sharing the first four things you see and use those. People can use their imagination to work out the rest, otherwise it's like you're robbing them of their intelligence to use their own imagination.

 

[poohlive]

Also, another thing to try is sublety. Especially for an erotic story. Words like embodiment, adhering, distinguished, prominent... really don't belong on an erotic story, even if it's just to describe the character's looks. They are hard words, complicated words, and they make the reader think...
And I don't know about you, but when I'm reading an erotic tale, I try not to think too much, just sort of relax, let my hand slip down my underwear, and have a good time.

Also, if you describe them too much, overdetail, you lose the audience on their own interpretation. The guy, for example, if you just want him to be a rich prissy, well, just write a sentence or two about that.

"One look at him, and you could smell the money his family had enherited."

The audience, with this description, can see the nice crew cut hair, the perfect teeth, the rock hard body, the dimpled smile. You don't want to put your character in the audience's mind, you want them to make up their own character. They have their own rich guy in mind when you write this, and they put that in the story.

 

[doormouse]

A guy:

Ryan Lashae stood 5’10, 175 pounds, and was the embodiment of what one could become by adhering to a grueling exercise schedule day in and day out. With brown hair styled in a crew cut and burning green eyes, at 24-almost 25 Ryan was the eldest son of the late Maxwell Lashae, and along with his 23 year old twin brother and sister, had inherited one of the largest fortunes ever accumulated by one man. Ryan never had to, or never would have to work, but was a slaver. (etc....I hit the plot point here)



And now a girl:

At 20 years old, Ashley had been a college student, who was originally from Dallas, and had moved out to Malibu for College. Ashley Lockhart was tall, blonde and pretty. At 5’7, 122 pounds, the attractive blonde had light, blue gray eyes, a distinguished (rather large) nose, full lips and a beautiful smile. A prominent chin rounded out an attractive, (although far from perfect) face. She had shoulder length, white blonde hair, and an ample C cup bosom, round, attractive buttocks, and shapely legs. An eye-catching torso rounded out a striking body.
Ashley was a pleasant soul. She was nice to everyone and everyone loved her, as she had the ability to light up the room with her presence, and was a joy to be around. Admired by her peers and all around her, she was the all American teenager, seemingly gifted with the very rare combination of brains and beauty.

Ryan Lashae. His towering frame stood proud. Muscles glistened as he pumped weights in his penthouse style mansion. The sweat beaded along the sharp line of his army style hair. Brown hair and green eyes, a strong family line, gave him an appearance many found hard to resist...

Ashley, the 20 something college student, with her dazzling blue-gray eyes, and blonde hair, stood out amongst her peers. In her short skirt and tight blouse, her slender legs and full breast dared to burst from the over-taut fabric as she leaned to swipe a hair that dared to stray over Ryan's handsome face.


You can always bring in more details later...

 

[nushu2]

Personally, I don't like physical descriptions at all and avoid using them, espescially using any numbers. I prefer variations of pretty, short or tall, fat or slim, blonde or brunette but avoid details. Part of the reason is that readers have such differing tastes, if they care at all. Mainly, I prefer to read and write about their minds and hearts rather than their bodies. There are exceptions but they refer to some anomoly that is pertinent to the story.

If I start reading a shopping list of features in the first paragraph of a story, I'm gone. It's odd that I find erotica, that is supposedly so physio-centric, distasteful when it is. Maybe I'm just tired of hearing about 38DD's and 12 inch cocks. In a novel, I can understand using explicit details but, please, sprinkle them through the story.

When I meet a woman in real life, ( it happens) my first thought isn't to classify her cup size and it strikes me as bizarre to be confronted with it in the start a story. I don't need to hear about them till they're in my face or hands. (ahem, I meant the character's face or hands)

 

[doormouse]

I'm the same Nushu.

I can't read a story about a freak cock of 9" or more.

Where's the fun in that? Most people have only experienced a realistic sized penis in their life, bar a few. Even then, going from my ex, who was too big for comfort, it only brings back 'painful' memories of such an apendage hitting spots that should never be invaded.

Breast size is another peeve. Especially cup size. We're not all DD's and when they say 40DD and describe her as 'slender'.... come on!! 40" is not slender.

All cup sizes are the same, be it 32DD to 40DD. The cup size remains the same. The numbers are the inches around the back.

'Her large breasts fell from her bra with ease......' does it for me without sizes mentioned. They can be B cup or DD or larger.. that's my pleasure and don't like being told what to fantasize.

 

[Vincent E]

$0.02

I think that the descriptive paragraph that details every characteristic of a character is a holdover from having read too many Penthouse Letters where there is only so much space and time to get things like details out of the way. If you really need to encapsulate every item of phyical description in a single paragraph at the beginning of the story you probably are sacrificing a lot in the way of plot.

Have to hurry up and let everybody know that the dude has a 10" penis? Why. Can't you just say that his unit is big later in the story. Have to describe the blonde with the 46DDD chest up front (pardon the pun)? Why? Can't you just add that item later?

He thrust his freakishly large member deep into her sex, making her scream partly from pleasure, partly from pain. She panted, heaving her chest upwards at him, trying to breath. Mistaking these actions, he inferred that she wanted him to squeeze and suck on her moo-cow large mammaries. He grabbed a handful of her long blonde hair, pulled her head back, and then wrapped his teeth around her nipple and sucked.

As for the "Wanted Poster" descriptions, I was thinking more along the lines of a police B.O.L.O.

Attention all units (again, pardon the pun) be on the lookout for a 6'4" male. He has striking good looks, short brown hair, and a good muscular body. No identifying marks, scars, or tatoos, but he has a 12" penis that he loves to have sucked. All the women always go wild and horny once they see it, and they just have to jump on him. Suspect is considered armed and implausible.

He may be in the company of a 5'4" blonde beauty with looks that stop men dead in their tracks. She has a nice round ass, long shapely legs that she always highlights with 6" FM pumps and short, tight skirts. Her breasts are an incredible 38DD with hard, firm nipples and she just loves to tease men with low cut necklines. Suspect should be approached with caution as she is a nymphomanic and will go down on anyone for any reason.

Caution is advised in the apprehension of either of these hackneyed characters.

If officers encounter the male suspect, the use of deadly force is advised.

If officers encounter the female suspect, they should radio for a supervising sergeant immediately who will take matters into his own hands.

Control, out.

 

[impressive]

Mainly, I prefer to read and write about their minds and hearts rather than their bodies.

YES! YES! YES!

Also allows the reader to insert their own physical preferences (or insert themselves, even) into the fantasy.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

In the very early days of movies, they used to use establishing shots for the characters. They'd show the character in the screen, and then a graphic would come up: "Nell Bly, the young and innocent daughter of Simon Bly, just back from divinity school and never been kissed..." That's kind of what it's like to plop a description down in the middle of a story. It's very old-fashioned.

One definition of fiction is that it's the art of conveying emotions and ideas through character action. If you think about what makes a story interesting or moving, it's rarely the characters' appearance. It's what they do and how they do it.

I know that this is a porn site, and in our stories we're trying to paint a visual picture of what we imagine, but I agree with Harold that it's a grave mistake to stop and unroll a diagram of the character and go over it with a pointer: here's the curly blond hair, here are the big blue eyes, here are the 36-C breasts, in here is the Harvard education in comparative religion... Personally, my eyes tend to just glide over those descriptions as unimportant. Any particular features that you feel are important to the story should be revealed in the course of the action, without bringing things to a screeching halt while you fumble around with your illustrations (and hopefully without resorting to the old mirror cliche: "She checked herself in the mirror, noting her big blue eyes, her curly blond hair, her 36-C breasts. "Not bad for a XX year-old", she thought...").

Besides, even if you tell us that she's a PhD and president of her company at twenty-five, if she says stuff like "Gee, that's awesome!" we're going to believe her actions, not her description, and see her as something of an air-head.

In my own stuff, I tend to pay more attention to a character's bearing than I do to his/her features. I think you can tell more about a character from the way they move and hold themselves than you can from a description of their face, and if you think about it, it's one of the first things you notice about a person and one of the last things you forget. It also has the advantage of fitting right into the action of a story.

In my own opinion, what any writer should work on is not writing good descriptions, but on discovering ways for a character to reveal what he/she's like in what they do and say.

---dr.M.

 

[minsue]

What they said.

In seriousness, nothing moves me to hit the 'back' button faster than a statistical listing of attributes.

 

[doormouse]

" he inferred that she wanted him to squeeze and suck on her moo-cow large mammaries."

LOL!!

Sorry, one last post... vincent was too funny LOL

 

[Alex De Kok]

Elmore Leonard summed it up best -

Leave out the parts that the reader skips

Alex

 

[vargas111]

This sounds like the author's notes to himself, perhaps useful to him, but definitely not to put into the story, especially not in one paragraph. To say the guy is tall and works out should be enough.

Cheers

 

[The Lionheart]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think I see what you mean with the character descriptions coming out more like a laundry list or a bio. For a very short story or non erotic novel I might try something like the descriptions I initially listed, again, but as for an erotica, you're probably right-it doesn't really seem to fit.

Again, thank you for the feedback. ^_^

 

[Black Tulip]

Lionheart,

There's no need for all those figures and measurements. Not in any story. I live in centimeters and kilograms so all you lot mention is meaningless to me, unless I look up my conversion site. I hardly ever do. I can imagine how a person looks by tall or average or descriptions like that.

I never mention numbers in my own stories either, for the same reason. It's meaningless to me or it is to most of the readers.
If I tell you I'm a size 100C does that mean anything to you?

Oh well, what the rest of them said. But I think it's true for all stories, not just erotica.

 

[Boota]

I always try to use as little physical description as possible. If there is an aspect of a persons physicality that needs to be addressed, I'll do it. Otherwise, I give the short-tall, thin-fat, pretty-homely descriptions.

I write comedy, so when I do go into descriptions I can have a lot of fun with them. I still keep them brief, but the words I use are different from erotica. Lenny Kapowski, my main character in Mr. Undesirable, is a chubby short guy with long hair and glasses. The most description for him in the whole 480 pages is, as he describes himself, "Think of a studious nerd at chocolate lovers heavy metal party." I establish small bits throughout the book, but that is the main descriptive stab. I described some of the peripheral characters as "Tony Bennett's evil twin" or "a more pissed off version of Ed Asner", and left it at that. I didn't want to get bogged down in description because I had some funny shit to write and there is a shelf life on that stuff.

 

[DirtyJJ]

Have fun with this. The characters are inside, waiting to meet you.

Thanks for these character questions doormouse - they are excellent. I can see where it would help to get you to "know" the characters as multi-dimensional people.

I do agree with some of the other posters that a lot of physical description is not necessary and can easily become overkill. A few details are fine, maybe draw them out in the context of the story, and let the reader imagine the rest.
JJ

 

[TheEarl]

Massive thread-jack

Buggered if I can think of who said it on here, about sharing the first four things you see and use those. People can use their imagination to work out the rest, otherwise it's like you're robbing them of their intelligence to use their own imagination.

That was me!

Sorry, I know that was very self-centred and egotistical and I shouldn't be bringing up my own need for acclamation into someone else's thread. Even so...

That was me! Someone remembered what I said! My advice was useful!

Okay I'm done now.



The Earl