Question regarding copyright

[neonflux]

I originally emailed Etoile with this question. She suggested that I post on this forum, so here goes. As I am new here, having spent most of my time until now in the GLBT forum, I hope that someone will be willing to answer:

I have a serious question regarding copyright and want to get your feedback, trusting what you have to say. Is Literotica really a safe place if one has the desire to publish the same material elsewhere? I KNOW that Literotica allows you to keep your copyright, but have a friend who has suggested that it's dangerous basically because anyone can just "lift" your work, I am presuming a little more easily than if it were self-published in a blog, for instance (something am in the process of setting up).

So what's your take? Has anyone, to your knowledge, ever had their work ripped off and then found themselves unable to publish the piece later on?

Thanks in advance for the response,
~ Justine aka Neonflux

P.S., I am serious about my fictional writing and have every intention of getting it published by a serious house (am currently working on a collaborative project with a photographer who already has been published by Taschen, for instance). I initially intended to use Literotica to get feedback, as a safe place to start "honing" works. Have 4 new poems I'd like to submit here, and two short stories almost in decent enough form (actually sexually graphic but not strictly erotica because they ultimately are not meant solely to titillate). However, all but one of these works are destined for a book I am working on (separate from the coffee table / art book with the photographer).

 

[Mercurius]

Where your work is posted has no effect on the copyright (assuming it's posted somewhere, like Lit, that expressly allows you to retain the copyright). How easily the story can be "lifted" is a matter of ctrl-c, it's not a copyright issue. It's a copyright violation no matter where it's lifted from. Publication on a site like Lit does not make a story "public domain."

I write articles for a popular website - they are paid articles, they have my name on them, etc., and yet they are lifted and posted on other sites all the time. It's a constant battle to make people take them down. Your stories here on Lit are no less copyright protected than my "official" articles, and yet they can be stolen just as easily.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I originally emailed Etoile with this question. She suggested that I post on this forum, so here goes. As I am new here, having spent most of my time until now in the GLBT forum, I hope that someone will be willing to answer:

I have a serious question regarding copyright and want to get your feedback, trusting what you have to say. Is Literotica really a safe place if one has the desire to publish the same material elsewhere? I KNOW that Literotica allows you to keep your copyright, but have a friend who has suggested that it's dangerous basically because anyone can just "lift" your work, I am presuming a little more easily than if it were self-published in a blog, for instance (something am in the process of setting up).

So what's your take? Has anyone, to your knowledge, ever had their work ripped off and then found themselves unable to publish the piece later on?

Thanks in advance for the response,
~ Justine aka Neonflux

P.S., I am serious about my fictional writing and have every intention of getting it published by a serious house (am currently working on a collaborative project with a photographer who already has been published by Taschen, for instance). I initially intended to use Literotica to get feedback, as a safe place to start "honing" works. Have 4 new poems I'd like to submit here, and two short stories almost in decent enough form (actually sexually graphic but not strictly erotica because they ultimately are not meant solely to titillate). However, all but one of these works are destined for a book I am working on (separate from the coffee table / art book with the photographer).

Hi, Justine. I think I can answer part of your question. Stories are constantly being ripped off from here. I have about 150 stories and most of them can be found on one site or another besides this one. I don't like it and Laurel doesn't like it but I don't know that there is much to be done about it.

At least one of these sites I mention gives me credit for the stories and says others like it can be found on Literotica. That's not too bad. I like to have people reading my work and the exposure can't hurt. Most of them, though, do nothing of the kind, just post it like they had every right to do so. Sometimes people make changes in them and try to pass them off as their own.

I don't know if this could keep me from selling them somewhere, sometime or not. I write for the fun of it, not to make money but I would like to have some published and get paid for them. I doubt if there is anybody who would honestly say otherwise. I don't know what effect their widespread availability would have but it couldn't possibly make them more salable.

 

[oggbashan]

Copying versus linking

In the UK and Europe you do not have to explicitly claim copyright in your written work. You have the copyright. I put copyright details at the start of most of my stories to deter copying. It doesn't work as I can tell when I search for my stories.

It is considered acceptable to put a link to a story in another site - 'Hey guys, have a look at this story on Literotica'.

It is theft if the story is posted on another site without explicit permission.

It is plaigarism if the story is posted elsewhere without your name and showing someone else as the 'author'. That is aggravated theft.

In practice, without substantial money to employ expensive lawyers, you have no redress. Even if you did sue, the thief probably couldn't afford your legal costs nor the fine.

Some publishers expect you to take down stories posted on Lit. Some will not consider stories that have been posted on Lit and will only take 'original, unpublished work'. That is their decision. It depends on their contract with the author.

Og

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I put copyright details at the start of most of my stories to deter copying. It doesn't work as I can tell when I search for my stories.

how do you search for them, Og? Just google the title?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

In the US, you have a copyright the moment you put pen to paper. Your work is yours. Posting to lit, dosen't void it and anyone who tells you that you rowrk is now "public domain" is trying to rip you off.

I copyright my works through the US office. I do this more for my peace of mind than anything. Like Box, I have had stories lifted. Unlike him, when I ask a site to take them down, I can give a copyright number and threaten legal action that they know is no bullshit.And believe me, despite all the public domain crap they will try to force feed you, they know very well they are stealing your work. And when you give thema copyright number and your lawyer's fax number, they move faster than a mongoose on crystalmeth to get it taken down.

In some ways, posting to lit actually helps you establish copyright, as lit is date stamped. If someone steals your work, changes a fe names, etc. You can show a publish date on the work that will, predate theirs, since they have to wait till yours is avilable to scap it.

 

[impressive]

And when you give thema copyright number and your lawyer's fax number, they move faster than a mongoose on crystalmeth to get it taken down.

 

[oggbashan]

how do you search for them, Og? Just google the title?

Two ways. Search for oggbashan which is a unique handle or "copyright oggbashan". Both come up despite encryption.

For those who do not have such an easy search, looking for one of your sentences, particularly with a character name, should identify where your stories are.

My most stolen story is 'Breastfeeding Class' although it isn't highly rated here. Why it should appear on sites titled something like 'Japanese anal teen fisting' is beyond me.

Og

 

[Boxlicker101]

Two ways. Search for oggbashan which is a unique handle or "copyright oggbashan". Both come up despite encryption.

For those who do not have such an easy search, looking for one of your sentences, particularly with a character name, should identify where your stories are.

My most stolen story is 'Breastfeeding Class' although it isn't highly rated here. Why it should appear on sites titled something like 'Japanese anal teen fisting' is beyond me.

Og

Like Og said, Google the name, although that doesn't always help or Google your own name, which sometimes helps. I tend to use rather flowery phrases sometimes, such as "her adorable pink rosebud" or "her precious love button" and when I Google things like that, I can usually find stuff that has been stolen. Contacting the owners of the pirating sites isn't always easy, though.

 

[neonflux]

I want to thank everyone...

...for your feedback.

Colleen, I greatly appreciate your suggestion about registration.

Oggbashan, thank you for definitions + info on European copyright law. The second is a concern for me since the photographer I am working with lives and works in France. Also, thank you for the suggestion to put copyright info at the beginning, rather than end of a work.

For all of you who have seen your work ripped off - that info is also much appreciated.

One additional question - are poems as likely to be ripped off as short stories? I am thinking that to be safe, I may want to start by just publishing poems here and on my blog, saving the stories for password protected sections of my web site.

~ Justine

 

[Boxlicker101]

Personally, I never concern myself about poems. What I write is just doggerel and I don't much care about it after I post it here.

 

[oggbashan]

Personally, I never concern myself about poems. What I write is just doggerel and I don't much care about it after I post it here.

Works for me too. Perhaps that's why none of my poems are ever likely to reach 10 votes, not even my masterpiece 'The Garderobe'.

Og

 

[neonflux]

Well then...

Perhaps we're different, you and I... I take the poetry as seriously as anything else I write. Wouldn't write so many versions of each piece if I didn't Now, my little conceits and adventures on the LGBT forum, meant only to titillate and entertain, are quite another thing...

Personally, I never concern myself about poems. What I write is just doggerel and I don't much care about it after I post it here.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Personally, I never concern myself about poems. What I write is just doggerel and I don't much care about it after I post it here

Perhaps we're different, you and I... I take the poetry as seriously as anything else I write. Wouldn't write so many versions of each piece if I didn't Now, my little conceits and adventures on the LGBT forum, meant only to titillate and entertain, are quite another thing...

Some of my poems, especially some of the illustrated ones, I take a little more seriously. Most of them, though, are just jokes told in rhyme and meter.

 

[neonflux]

Have I told you, Boxlicker...

That I adore both your handle and your sig? Smut? Smut is good...

 

[Purple Sage]

If you're seriously concerned with protecting your copyright, you simply have to have a way to verify when you wrote it. The best way is to register the copyright with the Library of Congress. Pretty fool proof is to have a hardcopy notarized. Not too bad is to send it to yourself registered mail and don't open the package. Date-stamping on an e-site may be less than reliable, but any kind of hard-copy publication (with publication date) is generally pretty secure. As far as I know, there is not currently a net-publication system that securely establishes copyright, but if quite a few people read your work and are able and willing to attest to it's date of publication, you have some leverage if you're actually going to trial. Saving draft copies is also helpful- pirates rarely go through the process of revision- but of course in a serious fight, they could fake it up. For the most part, however, there is little reason to have a serious fight because the monetary value of the works is small to all parties concerned- telling people to take down your work is usually sufficient.
It used to be the case that you had to take 'reasonable measures' to enforce your copyright or you lost it. What constitutes 'reasonable' on the internet is anybody's guess, but I'm not sure that standard even exists anymore. It could be a full time job to search the web for your material and make removal requests.

 

[Weird Harold]

Is Literotica really a safe place if one has the desire to publish the same material elsewhere? I KNOW that Literotica allows you to keep your copyright, but have a friend who has suggested that it's dangerous basically because anyone can just "lift" your work, I am presuming a little more easily than if it were self-published in a blog, for instance (something am in the process of setting up).

Lierotica is a safer place to publish than a blog, unless, like Colleen, you can afford your own lawyer. Lit can and has threatened legal action against sites that steal multiple stories from Lit.

Publishing anywhere, whether elecronic self-publishing in a blog or posting on an established story site like Lit can hurt the chances of having a "mainstream" publisher accept a story or poem. As Oggs mentioned, publishers prefer exclusive rights to "original and unpubished" works and some will only accept "original and unpublished" works.

Having an established following can give you an edge in the struggle to get published, but often not for the works that gained you that following. You need to balance the benefit of gaining a following against the drawback of reducing the value of your "previously published" works.

Lit is as safe as any e-publishing venue and safer than most. Still because it is a popular site that doesn't accept every bit of drivel that is submitted, it is a prime target for story theft. However, the stories hat are solen from here are generally stolen for other e-publishing venues and NOT stolen for the print publishers.

I don't know of a single confirmed case of stories that have been stolen and printed. Although I do know of several unscrupulous offers to gain rights to stories that are worded so that auhors would wind up with two copies of a magazine in exchange for the rights to any story posted on the web anywhere.