Question.. porn/chatting.. cheating?

[EmeraldKitten]

I have a question, and I'm sure there will be many diverse opinions.
(In fact, I think I'm going to make it a poll.)

Here's the thing~
When I was single, I used to think it was silly when people would get upset about their significant others looking at porn and what have you.
Now that I'm in a relationship, I see it slightly differently.

I don't care if my boyfriend looks at porn, watches porn, or has it brought to him by the pony express. The likelihood of him running into a porn star is slim to none, lol.
Now, let me say- it's not that I don't trust him. I do. I don't trust them.
Let me explain.
For some reason, it irks the shit out of me if he's talking to a girl online. Now, most of the time, it's someone he went to school with or whatever, and that doesn't bother me.
But. I really hate it when he goes into the local chatrooms on AOL. The little cyber sluts are too close for comfort, lol.
And I really don't appreciate the little ho-bags that send tit shots via mass email to the guys in the room.

I'm a hypocrite you say?
There are somewhat-naked pictures of me floating somewhere on this very board? I've engaged it what was probably most likely innapropriate conversation with a married/attached man?
You'd be right. Then, I didn't see the harm in it. It's not like I'm gonna meet the guy.
Now- if I was that wife/whatever, I'd be pissed, lol.

In hindsight, some of what I've done or said kinda makes me ashamed and I feel bad. Just because now I'm on the other end of the spectrum. Now that I'm attached, the likelihood of me engaging in such activities is slim to none.

I'm not trying to say that my bf gets online and looks at porn and cybers with every girl in sight. He doesn't. But it's the principal of the matter, lol.

What do you guys think? Is it silly to be jealous of your s/o talking to other people online, or looking at pictures of real life women/men that are close enough to meet if they felt so inclined? Even if they make no attempt to run off and cheat on you, and you're the one they climb into bed with every night?

Please discuss. Thanks for listening!

 

[rgraham666]

Gonna have to think about this for a bit.

 

[Belegon]

I don't have to think about it...

People differ. My words may not apply to everybody and if you feel otherwise I'm not going to dispute your right to do so... Now that I've laid out that disclaimer...

I honestly and truthfully feel that jealousy has been the author of far too much human misery to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Jealousy, and possessiveness, are almost entirely negative. They do little to nothing positive. To me, the key issue is that they smack of ownership. No one owns anyone.

Are you a non-renewable resource? Are you going to be used up? Does your SO's touch on your skin feel different after they type a flirty comment to another person? Does the appreciation and love for you in their eyes dim because yours are not the only tits they've seen this hour?

The only place I am willing to budge on this is to say that I understand if someone is spending time with another they could be spending with you. I can see how value is placed on that.

If you chose to spend time with me in any way shape or form you are giving me the greatest gift you have to give. Time. Irreplaceable time. "All your money won't another minute buy..." time.

I honor that choice, but I don't have any "rights" to that gift. Nor will I ever. Nor does anyone have that right to my gift.


My outright rejection of any type of jealousy is not a popular stance and I know that. But I still feel that it is wrong and that it is damaging and dangerous. If you can live your life without it's influence, I feel you will be much happier.

*steps off soapbox*

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Yes, think on it RG.


Bel, thank you very much for your opinion. I hate jealousy. It's an awful thing. It's an awful feeling. Your post made a lot of sense to me. I'm working on it not bothering me.
I don't think its my boyfriend though. Like, if I would throw myself naked on the bed he'd get offline immediately and come play a fun game.
I think actually what bothers me more is the other person. Like... there's no respect for the s/o. I don't know, maybe I'm just getting old fashioned now.

I'll think on it a little more. And try not to be jealous in the process, lol.

Thanks fellas!

 

[Belegon]

Yes, think on it RG.


Bel, thank you very much for your opinion. I hate jealousy. It's an awful thing. It's an awful feeling. Your post made a lot of sense to me. I'm working on it not bothering me.
I don't think its my boyfriend though. Like, if I would throw myself naked on the bed he'd get offline immediately and come play a fun game.
I think actually what bothers me more is the other person. Like... there's no respect for the s/o. I don't know, maybe I'm just getting old fashioned now.

I'll think on it a little more. And try not to be jealous in the process, lol.

Thanks fellas!

I admire you simply for admitting to your quandary.

I also feel these things on occasion. But I try my damndest never to act on them. I am, last I checked, human. (My wife's opinion to that last may very well differ, especially right now.)

 

[cloudy]

Whether you trust them or not is irrelevant. If you trust your SO, and he's worthy of that trust, then no matter what "they" do, it doesn't matter.

Jealousy is a waste of energy, as far as I'm concerned, and only serves to push someone away rather than draw them closer.

My $.02.

 

[BreeCarter]

I have a question, and I'm sure there will be many diverse opinions.
(In fact, I think I'm going to make it a poll.)

Here's the thing~
When I was single, I used to think it was silly when people would get upset about their significant others looking at porn and what have you.
Now that I'm in a relationship, I see it slightly differently.

I don't care if my boyfriend looks at porn, watches porn, or has it brought to him by the pony express. The likelihood of him running into a porn star is slim to none, lol.
Now, let me say- it's not that I don't trust him. I do. I don't trust them.
Let me explain.
For some reason, it irks the shit out of me if he's talking to a girl online. Now, most of the time, it's someone he went to school with or whatever, and that doesn't bother me.
But. I really hate it when he goes into the local chatrooms on AOL. The little cyber sluts are too close for comfort, lol.
And I really don't appreciate the little ho-bags that send tit shots via mass email to the guys in the room.

I'm a hypocrite you say?
There are somewhat-naked pictures of me floating somewhere on this very board? I've engaged it what was probably most likely innapropriate conversation with a married/attached man?
You'd be right. Then, I didn't see the harm in it. It's not like I'm gonna meet the guy.
Now- if I was that wife/whatever, I'd be pissed, lol.

In hindsight, some of what I've done or said kinda makes me ashamed and I feel bad. Just because now I'm on the other end of the spectrum. Now that I'm attached, the likelihood of me engaging in such activities is slim to none.

I'm not trying to say that my bf gets online and looks at porn and cybers with every girl in sight. He doesn't. But it's the principal of the matter, lol.

What do you guys think? Is it silly to be jealous of your s/o talking to other people online, or looking at pictures of real life women/men that are close enough to meet if they felt so inclined? Even if they make no attempt to run off and cheat on you, and you're the one they climb into bed with every night?

Please discuss. Thanks for listening!

to me, the whole thing is cheating. if he's getting off to other girls, it's cheating. we have a deal that if he wants porn, we make our own.

 

[Pure]

there are many gray areas here, emerald.

1)one's partner looking at a pic of Jenna Jameson

2) one's partner jerking to a pic one of the cyber chat ladies *that he knows* sent to him.

3) same for 'he doesn't know.'

4) there are also 'chats' and 'chats', i.e. fleeting ones never to recur, and

5) continuing ones that suggest involvement.

for most of us emotions follow extended sexual involvemet, mutual 'getting off' etc. so the question really comes to the cases where there is emotional involvement of one's partner.

here the non jealous freelovers and liars say, "it doesn't matter. there's no less love for me."

most others of us feel some jealousy and makes various choices as to whether to swallow it or express it.

as another poster said, *time* is an issue, and time follows emotions, no? so emotional connections will take time from the primary one.

either these cyber affairs are agreed to (as human, inevitable), or not.

===

interesting how views change, eh, emerald? just as according to whether one is the third party, or in the couple.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Thanks Bel. I do what I can, lol.
I don't turn into a raving lunatic on him or anything like that. But deep down it bothers me. I realize though that's my problem. It's being insecure and whatever else ya wanna call it. Now, others might feel that way for other reasons.. posessiveness... instances in the past where cheating was an issue... etc.
But I know deep down if we went on Maury, and he got put in with a sexy decoy, he'd have nothing to worry about. lol.

You're right Cloudy. And the last thing I want to do is push him away. Which is why I'm trying to get a grip and realize I have nothing to worry about. I'm just curious about what other people think.

Bree, interesting view.. thanks for sharing your opinion. My honey has suggested our own porn thing.. I think it's his sly way of gettin' some nakkie pictures.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I didn't vote because I am unsure of what the situation would be.

I wrote a lot of first person stories that include "me" as the narrator, getting together with a series of women and doing things with them that induce them to have numerous and momentuous orgasms. From time to time I get an email from a woman (presumably) telling me how she would love to get together with me so I could do those same things with her. Unless it's Anon.,I usually respond by telling her how I would love to do what she suggests. Usually, that is the extant of the exchange. This is completely harmless, and my wife would be silly to be jealous over it.

Sometines I and other men post in threads telling certain women how hot they are, and how we lust for them, and all the things we would do with them if we ever got together. Nothing ever happens, of course. I would never get together with one of the Lit. women, at least not for reasons I am describing, nor would I ever gt together with one of the emailers. Usually I don't even have any idea where they live, and they could be on the other side of the world from me. It would be silly for my wife to get jealous over these flirtations.

However, there are also women who post nude pictures of themselves and write about they are looking for a good man. Some of them live in the same city as I do, and it is a small city. If I correspond with one of them, she might have grounds for jealosy, since there is a very real possibility that I might do something stupid.

Actually, I am not such a great catch that my wife would have any reason to be jealous. This would be like somebody worried that a thief might steal their 1964 Valiant with four bald tires. I mean, my wife has no reason to be jealous about some other woman taking me away from her, because no other woman would be even remotely interested. However, if I were more attractive and charming and alluring, she would have good cause to be jealous about my communicating from nearby women. In other words, it would not be silly for her to be jealous about my communications with nearby women on the internet, but it would be silly if they were possibly thousandsd of miles away.

 

[Liar]

People online are people. Human interaction. Two way communication. I'm always surprised to find that some tand to view it otherwise. If you're not comfortable with the idea of the SO chattting up women (or being chatted up by) in a bar, it's perfectly logical to be as uncomfortable with him catting up women online.

Porn is not people. The porn actors don't know him and he don't meet them. One way communication.

So no, you're not a hypocrite. If the media is the internet, written letters, phone calls or lunch dates, doesn't matter. It's either a problem (it could be for me, depending on the situation), or not (Bel's position?).

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think part of it isn't jealousy, it's finickiness-- I am not jealous of my old man, and I was never jealous of my girlfriends, but-- sometimes there'd be a skank factor that would make me take a step back... and then want to run over and say; "What are you doing, leggo of that troll!"

 

[3113]

It kinda depends on what my hubbie and the chat-room girl are discussing and *how* they're discussing it. I've seen him flirt outrageously with women and it doesn't bug me at all. I know it's all in fun. Likewise if he talking politics, or giving advice on personal issues, etc., etc., etc., that's all good, too. We all need social intercourse and if an online chat rooms satisfies that, it's fine with me.

If, however, it was virtual sex, him telling her what he's doing to her, she telling him, and the two of them masturbating while they do so...um...well that's not going to make me happy. Likewise if I find out he's brainstorming stories with some else. Hubbie's a writer like me and I get very jealous if he's sharing his writing brain with someone other than me.

Now I trust him and don't believe he'd ever do either, but...if he did, I'd be hurt because he didn't tell me he needed something and try to get it from me first. That's what it comes down to. There are some things I can't give him, like for example, he loves certain types of music that I don't. So if he goes to a concert with someone who shares that love, that's fine with me. Ditto if he takes someone to a movie he knows I'll hate. But in the above examples, he'd be using someone else for something that I, presumably, could give him. Something very personal, something very private and intimate and important to our marriage.

Something, if you will, that he promised exclusively to me. So, yeah. I'd be pissed.

 

[SimpleGifts]

I'm not quite clear on the nature of your b/f's chats with online women...on a local AOL chatroom, they might be discussing scrapbooking. But I assume you mean that he's having chats of a sexual nature.

Is it silly to be jealous? Much as I despise jealousy, I wouldn't say it's "silly." It's a human emotion. I'd like to say that I'd never be jealous about someone whom I truly love, but it's a lie...there was someone I loved very deeply and trusted implicitly, and I'd still get jealous when she'd tell me that a guy bought her a drink at a bar the other night, even though I knew that she loved me more than any other man. I wouldn't say that jealousy is automatically bad.

I do believe, though, that jealousy should be relative, and that there are cases where it's more intense than justified. And I agree with some comments above...if he's spending time chatting up "cybersluts" instead of spending it chatting YOU up, then you have reason to be jealous. It depends on what you've agreed is a reasonable expectation within your relationship. It doesn't really matter if meeting up with a "cyberslut" is more or less of a possibility...what he is actually doing is a greater cause for concern than a hypothetical.

I don't believe that chatting in that context is cheating, because he is not apparently lying to you about it or hiding it. You know he's doing it. You can either decide that it's acceptable to you, or not--he's not doing anything to prevent you from making an informed decision.

It's not cheating...but depending on what you value, it may be disrespectful to you, or worrisome, or something else.

As to whether chatting is "worse" than looking at porn...chatting is proactive while looking at porn is to a greater extent passive. As a guy, I can look at online porn, jack off, and ten minutes later be back doing something else. Chatting requires engagement, interactivity, some kind of creativity (or else the other person will get bored)...so, again, given that there's a finite number of hours in the day, and any person can only focus on a certain number of things, if he's actively engaging with another woman and NOT you, then yeah, I can see why you'd be jealous. But I think you'd have MORE cause to be jealous if he was stopping at a bar on the way home and chatting up a waitress or something.

SG

 

[angelicminx]

I get a small niggle of jealousy from time to time when my hubby chats with other woman, usually when my hormones are out of balance. I've spent the better part of 4 years working on my 'jealousy issues' and I've come a long way. I think what bugs me the most during those times of jealousy is not knowing... what he's thinking, what she's thinking. I know I have nothing to worry about, and I trust him completely, so those moments don't last too long, thank goodness. It's not a very good feeling.

Hubby and I have discussed your question. His response is, if you are jealous, you aren't with the right person. He doesn't hold with jealousy for any reason. He's explained to me that he is away from me most of the day, I could be getting into all kinds of mischief, but he trusts that I don't. He doesn't care if I chat with other people, cyber or whatever, as long as I don't try to hide it. Hiding is lying and that just won't do. He's also told me that he's 'found his magic' in me, loves me to the depths of his soul and won't do anything to hurt me. The chat he does is all in fun, a way of blowing off steam, relaxing and clearing his mind. I believe that, I feel it, and I know in my heart it's true.

 

[English Lady]

I voted other

I personally think chatting is not cheating. My husband and I have set our limits and chatting is firmly within the "it's okay" boundary line.

It's different or everyone, though. I personally say talk to him, let him know how you feel and how you're in this quandry and deal with it together.

 

[SensualCealy]

I voted other too, my reasoning is, I do get jealous, but only if he finishes the 'job' with her and not with me! I don't care if they chat, I just don't want him to hide it from me. My hubby knows there are only three guys I chat with on a regular basis through emails and MSN. One of them is Lil'Elvis. He knows what he does for a living, he knows where he lives, he knows he has a family that he is devoted to. This being said, I don't think he is jealous of me because he knows I'm not going anywhere so long as he treats me with respect.

I did get very jealous of him at one time, he would get up early on the weekends and come chat on the computer. As soon as I would get up he would shut things down and dismiss his chatting. To me this was hiding a part of his life from me that made me feel he was doing something wrong. I then did something I shouldn't have, I read some of his threads and then asked him point blank after about a week if he was pursuing this woman to eventually meet up with her. His answer was no, but he did say that to get a woman to chat with him, he seems to always have to put me down and act as though we aren't happy. I guess where he chats they don't like men who are on just for the excitement.

Now, neither of us chat on the 'boards' he knows I'm on here and will tell him funny stories I read, mostly about SeaCat and the hospital antics (hubby use to work in a hospital) or how people are doing that I've told him about previously, like Vella and Lucky (we have family in Texas- thats how we started talking about them).

Life is easier when there are only two in a marriage~
All my best to you EmeraldKitten, many of us do things out of jealousy, I guess you just have to be prepared for what ever happens. Just don't be affraid to lay down boundaries like English Lady mentioned. If he truly loves you he will have no problems with it.
Lots of Love,
C

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Thanks everyone for your replies. It's nice to know I'm not the only one that has had an issue with it, as ridiculous as it might seem.
To my knowledge, he is not cybering or probably even having innapropriate conversation.
He's right here on the comp, and I'm 6 feet away on the bed. So no, he isn't hiding anything. Now, when I'm at work, it might be a different story, lol.
I guess what bothers me is the 'time' issue. I'm at work all day, then I get home, and he spends part of his evening online and not with me. I guess that is what bothers me.

Okay, I gotta get ready.. we're going to look at an apartment this morning.

Keep talkin'! I'll be back later!

 

[raphy]

I don't have to think about it...

People differ. My words may not apply to everybody and if you feel otherwise I'm not going to dispute your right to do so... Now that I've laid out that disclaimer...

I honestly and truthfully feel that jealousy has been the author of far too much human misery to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Jealousy, and possessiveness, are almost entirely negative. They do little to nothing positive. To me, the key issue is that they smack of ownership. No one owns anyone.

Are you a non-renewable resource? Are you going to be used up? Does your SO's touch on your skin feel different after they type a flirty comment to another person? Does the appreciation and love for you in their eyes dim because yours are not the only tits they've seen this hour?

The only place I am willing to budge on this is to say that I understand if someone is spending time with another they could be spending with you. I can see how value is placed on that.

If you chose to spend time with me in any way shape or form you are giving me the greatest gift you have to give. Time. Irreplaceable time. "All your money won't another minute buy..." time.

I honor that choice, but I don't have any "rights" to that gift. Nor will I ever. Nor does anyone have that right to my gift.


My outright rejection of any type of jealousy is not a popular stance and I know that. But I still feel that it is wrong and that it is damaging and dangerous. If you can live your life without it's influence, I feel you will be much happier.

*steps off soapbox*

I'm with Bel. Jealousy is a negative emotion. I have prevented myself from experiencing negative emotions.

Time, as Bel says, is the key factor here. If he's spending time ogling some naked chick's tits and ass when he could be upstairs working on your third orgasm with you then sure, that ain't right. You're supposed to come first in that world.

But if you're not around and he gets in the mood for a little relief? No harm, no foul, I say.

 

[impressive]

Jealousy is a negative emotion. As with any emotion, though, it's not the fact that you feel it that's good OR bad -- it's what you DO with the feeling that determines its impact on you and those around you.

I rarely experience any form jealousy. If I do, it's always narrow in focus and targeted toward one individual, completely rooted in righteous indignation. IOW, it's of a "So-and-so totally doesn't deserve that kind of goodness/attention, and I most certainly DO." variety. (I realize that is a very arrogant, judgmental viewpoint. Hey, I don't claim to be perfect -- just waaaaaaaaaaaay above average. *wink*) Some wouldn't even classify that as "jealousy," but rather some other ugly character trait. I think they'd be right, too.

I often experience envy.

The difference, as I see it and as has been oft discussed here, is that your garden variety jealousy is exclusive (i.e., I want something, and I don't want anyone else to have it at all. Mine! Mine! ALL mine!) whereas envy is inclusive (i.e., I want a piece of that action, but it's okay if others share in it as well.).

I can honestly say I've never experienced jealousy by that exclusive/possessive definition.

I don't believe that anyone has the right to demand possession (all time, all attention, all effort -- everything) from another, even in a monogamous, committed relationship. Some people choose to give themselves in that way, and while I can't imagine ever doing it myself, I recognize its validity as a CHOICE.

The line blurs between envy & jealousy when finite resources (such as time and attention) are perceived to be improperly allocated. That's where communication is critical. I believe it's totally within your right as part of a committed life partnership to expect to be given priority, to receive attention FIRST, and to receive the lion's share of it. Further, I believe that if your relationship is in an unstable place, it's a sign of disrespect (perhaps more) to have your SO investing those finite resources elsewhere.

My advice (bottom line): If your needs are being met, chill. If they're not, then jealousy is merely a symptom of a deeper issue. Outside forces are simply shining a light on it. Be thankful for the information and use it in a positive way: to improve your communication and strengthen your bond … or to get the hell out of an unfulfilling relationship.

 

[carsonshepherd]

I used to think I was beyond jealousy, until I found out my BF had re-activated his profile on a dating site. He said (and he showed it to me) that he was only interested in "friends" and not hooking up, but nonetheless, it did not please me. I expressed that I was not happy but I left it at that; I didn't ask him to take it down, and I believe that it's still there. I don't check up on him there. It isn't really an issue because he doesn't have time to flirt online anyway. I joke with him about his "whores" but I know it's nothing to worry about. I trust him completely.

I don't care if he flirts in person because I do it myself and it's completely harmless and just part of both of our personalities, especially when we've had a few. I've been in a couple of other relationships where the completely harmless, friendly flirting was a huge issue and after an evening out, there was sure to be a fight, but my BF really doesn't care. We just come home and have hot sex. Same with porn. Makes our sex life hotter.

I totally understand the time thing. I have the same feelings. BUT I remember what it was like to be on the other side and hearing things like "You should be spending time with me instead of on the computer." I didn't like being on the other side, and I'm definitely not putting my boyfriend in that spot, because I know how it feels and I know that it would push him away, just like it did me in my other relationship. I just acknowledge how I feel and then don't act on it. Just because I feel jealous or slighted doesn't mean I have to act on those feelings or use them to control him.

It's natural to feel jealous. It's human. You can't make yourself stop feeling it, but you can let it go and not act on it, and then it doesn't become a big issue.

Peace to you.

 

[raphy]

It's natural to feel jealous. It's human. You can't make yourself stop feeling it,

Bet ya half a dollar?

edited to add: I should probably say that yes, that's a flippant comment and no, I don't expect people to have the same degree of control over their emotions as I do

 

[Belegon]

this has become the first thread to really hold my interest in a while. Thank you for getting the discussion rolling, Kitten...

I agree with others that the initial thought/emotion is not nearly as important as your reaction to it.

Time is a finite resource, so I think it is fair to place demands on a person's time to a point, that point primarily being that you are expressing what you desire from them and not telling them what they owe you because you are theirs... you have to be willing to step outside and recognize that there will, sooner or later, arise a situation where you want that time and they want to spend it elsewhere. The reason may be excellent, but you still have your want. That's hard, and it just has to be dealt with at that time.

I agree with Imp on the difference between jealousy and envy, but that's not at all surprising. She and I have had very long discussions about this...

'Raphy, you and I appear to be kindred spirits in this... Imp and Carson are similar as well. But we all realize that the very fact that we are here discussing it shows that we are on a certain end of the scale, right? Talk about this in the break room at work and you'll get a much more realistic spread of the way people view this (IMHO) very destructive emotion.

Some people actually think it's a good part of their personality *shakes head sadly*.

 

[Liar]

Bet ya half a dollar?

edited to add: I should probably say that yes, that's a flippant comment and no, I don't expect people to have the same degree of control over their emotions as I do

Nor am I sure I'd really want to. I don't think there's an either/or here, where you have to control your negative emotions or else they control you. I'd rather allow myself to feel jealousity, greed, anger, apathy, fear, hate, and figure out what they are telling me, than to suppress or filter them out (or however the heck you do it. ). Control, for me, comes into play whether or not i act upon those emotions. And i control what I do.

Talk about this in the break room at work and you'll get a much more realistic spread of the way people view this (IMHO) very destructive emotion.

If I talk about this in the break room, all I'll get is a funy look before people go back to talking about football.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Bet ya half a dollar?

edited to add: I should probably say that yes, that's a flippant comment and no, I don't expect people to have the same degree of control over their emotions as I do

I should have said "I can't make myself stop feeling it" because I can only speak for myself.