rik_steele
Really Experienced
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Question - Learning as a Couple How Far to Go
- Thread starter rik_steele
- Start date
I think it would depend on what the fantasies are.
I'm actually questioning the same or similar scenario. For me, right now, I don't think disease is an issue so much as the whole 'trust' thing. He's asked me to do something .. I'm wanting to do it, but fear is, of course, 'if I do this, will his perspective of me change for the worse?'. He is reassuring at the moment so I'm hedging along but always that fear is there.
A thought though.
The only reason I am even considering this, or even -in- this relationship (or any relationship at all, for that matter) is directly due to the passing of two very dear friends. It is about a year and a half ago now that the first one passed. He was a wonderful 52 year old, perfectly healthy to all outside appearances and a huge support for me. One day he was fine and chatting away and the next night he had a massive heart attack and passed. It was so very sudden and unexpected and I went through the whole 'life is so short' process.
Then, several months later, another much closer pal died from complications due to diabetes. He wasn't particularly over-weight and seemed to be getting his diet under control. He was one that I certainly would have liked to have date but what was too afraid to let him know how much I cared. He had given me many indications that he liked me, too, but was very likely too afraid to let me know as well. So, we skirted and skirted around the issue and stayed as very close pals until his death. I have always regretted not telling or showing him exactly how I felt. One of the reasons was because he was in recovery and I didn't want to jeaprodise that in any way .. but after his death I've often wondered if I had have let him know, if things would have been different and he had been alive.
Either way, after sitting on this and refusing to let go of the grief, I had a few dreams where he was present and actively telling me that I had to move on. In the dreams, at first I would refuse to and woke up in tears with a horrible desolate feeling inside. The third time I had this dream, I resigned myself to letting go and woke up and came on line.
It was that night that my present partner approached me with that old, and very stupid line which I have shot down over and over again. 'You need a man' .. and rather than shutting this person down, I spoke to him about my pal who passed away. Came back with the response of 'I could have had a very good man last year, but he died.'
This lead the way to what has quickly become the most amazing relationship I have ever experienced but I have had to be open to it .. and that wouldn't have happened without the untimely deaths of my two friends. For me, it's been about opening the door to exploring who I really am .. without the cultural boundaries of living life as 'I should' live it rather to being committed to being authentically who I am.
Yes, love is a risk. There is always the chance that the other person will die and doing things that are dangerous is not a good plan. But, peoples ideas of what is dangerous are different. Before I met this latest person, I had a few people tell me how stupid I was being .. meeting a man who was flying in from a the other side of the Atlantic .. was and is risky. So, I used caution and -still went ahead anyway-. I played it safe .. met in a public place, had a safety contact person to call within a time frame .. he stayed in a hotel that I had previously worked at so I knew the people and was comfortable to stay there with him.
It helps that this man is committed to health, the same as I am because I don't think it would be such a great match if he wasn't. But, the point I am making to you is that different people have different ideas on what is safe and what isn't .. and ultimately, there are no guarantees with life or relationships.
Remember the lady that you have invested so much time into? If you choose to leave her and explore this new relationship, then you will have effectively killed you to her just as surely as if you had had a heart attack and died. Because that relationship you once had, that she once had, will no longer exist.
It's too bad that people can't learn to explore and be themselves with the one their with .. perhaps that is an avenue you could explore?
I'm actually questioning the same or similar scenario. For me, right now, I don't think disease is an issue so much as the whole 'trust' thing. He's asked me to do something .. I'm wanting to do it, but fear is, of course, 'if I do this, will his perspective of me change for the worse?'. He is reassuring at the moment so I'm hedging along but always that fear is there.
A thought though.
The only reason I am even considering this, or even -in- this relationship (or any relationship at all, for that matter) is directly due to the passing of two very dear friends. It is about a year and a half ago now that the first one passed. He was a wonderful 52 year old, perfectly healthy to all outside appearances and a huge support for me. One day he was fine and chatting away and the next night he had a massive heart attack and passed. It was so very sudden and unexpected and I went through the whole 'life is so short' process.
Then, several months later, another much closer pal died from complications due to diabetes. He wasn't particularly over-weight and seemed to be getting his diet under control. He was one that I certainly would have liked to have date but what was too afraid to let him know how much I cared. He had given me many indications that he liked me, too, but was very likely too afraid to let me know as well. So, we skirted and skirted around the issue and stayed as very close pals until his death. I have always regretted not telling or showing him exactly how I felt. One of the reasons was because he was in recovery and I didn't want to jeaprodise that in any way .. but after his death I've often wondered if I had have let him know, if things would have been different and he had been alive.
Either way, after sitting on this and refusing to let go of the grief, I had a few dreams where he was present and actively telling me that I had to move on. In the dreams, at first I would refuse to and woke up in tears with a horrible desolate feeling inside. The third time I had this dream, I resigned myself to letting go and woke up and came on line.
It was that night that my present partner approached me with that old, and very stupid line which I have shot down over and over again. 'You need a man' .. and rather than shutting this person down, I spoke to him about my pal who passed away. Came back with the response of 'I could have had a very good man last year, but he died.'
This lead the way to what has quickly become the most amazing relationship I have ever experienced but I have had to be open to it .. and that wouldn't have happened without the untimely deaths of my two friends. For me, it's been about opening the door to exploring who I really am .. without the cultural boundaries of living life as 'I should' live it rather to being committed to being authentically who I am.
Yes, love is a risk. There is always the chance that the other person will die and doing things that are dangerous is not a good plan. But, peoples ideas of what is dangerous are different. Before I met this latest person, I had a few people tell me how stupid I was being .. meeting a man who was flying in from a the other side of the Atlantic .. was and is risky. So, I used caution and -still went ahead anyway-. I played it safe .. met in a public place, had a safety contact person to call within a time frame .. he stayed in a hotel that I had previously worked at so I knew the people and was comfortable to stay there with him.
It helps that this man is committed to health, the same as I am because I don't think it would be such a great match if he wasn't. But, the point I am making to you is that different people have different ideas on what is safe and what isn't .. and ultimately, there are no guarantees with life or relationships.
Remember the lady that you have invested so much time into? If you choose to leave her and explore this new relationship, then you will have effectively killed you to her just as surely as if you had had a heart attack and died. Because that relationship you once had, that she once had, will no longer exist.
It's too bad that people can't learn to explore and be themselves with the one their with .. perhaps that is an avenue you could explore?
rik_steele
Really Experienced
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- Mar 1, 2014
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Nezhul
Angry Flufferpuff
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What are those fetishes that you are talking about?
It seems to me that your case is not about fetishes that cause severe irreversible bodily harm. Those are a no-no. But they are the only ones. As long as nothing is torn, cut, broken or ripped - the question to do that lies in your desire and the precautions you take.
Arguably, anything can be performed and not put health at risk (barring some really extreme stuff). I've recently watched a documentary about "vampires" - people who actually drink each other's blood for kicks. They seemed pretty happy, although that's not something I would engage in. Still, with the right precautions you can bring almost anything to the table.
I'd say that you should question not IF you should do those risky stuff, but HOW should you do them to avoid problems.
It seems to me that your case is not about fetishes that cause severe irreversible bodily harm. Those are a no-no. But they are the only ones. As long as nothing is torn, cut, broken or ripped - the question to do that lies in your desire and the precautions you take.
Arguably, anything can be performed and not put health at risk (barring some really extreme stuff). I've recently watched a documentary about "vampires" - people who actually drink each other's blood for kicks. They seemed pretty happy, although that's not something I would engage in. Still, with the right precautions you can bring almost anything to the table.
I'd say that you should question not IF you should do those risky stuff, but HOW should you do them to avoid problems.
pplwatching
Full grown man
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- Jul 4, 2003
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You don't say whether your 14 year relationship is marriage, but given the length of your commitment I'll draw some parallels to my marriage anyway to offer you a couple of points to think on.
I am the fantasizer in our bed. I would love to explore kink and lots of other things in our lovemaking, and have a vivid imagination
. I struggled for a long time with wanting to try everything at least once. My wife enjoys sex in different positions, but for a long time that was the extent of her idea of trying new things. I'm not saying that as criticism of her, but to point out that I get the frustration of wanting the forbidden fruit on the sexual menu.
A huge part of any long term relationship based on mutual love and respect, in my opinion, is unconditionally accepting who she is as a woman, lover, and unique sexual being. When I was Jonesing for whatever my imagination was cooking up, I was paying lip service to the concept but frankly kind of resentful that she wasn't open to trying at least some of it. It wasn't healthy for my marriage.
I can only speak for myself, but in my case the reason that I want to be married to this woman is that I want a deeply fulfilling relationship with her, and her specifically. 'Deeply fulfilling' is a very complex and abstract idea, but let's just boil it down to both meeting my needs and meeting her needs. Sex is a big part of fulfilling my needs, among many other things, for several reasons. If I put the various fantasies aside, at the heart of the matter I had convinced myself that <insert sex act or kink here> would make sex more exciting. I felt like we were missing out on all of these possibilities. I had to ground myself with the fact that I really get off on getting her turned on and making her feel good. It makes me feel incredibly intimately connected to her when she lets me give her sexual pleasure and gives me sexual pleasure. I had to accept that I can do those things without the window dressing of my fantasies.
A reasonable question might be "Why should I?" Or, "Why not just go find the extra thrill outside of our relationship?" From there, "After all, isn't it kind of a big burden to put on anyone one person to meet all of my needs? What harm is there in online sex play to get it?" After 22 years I know one thing with absolute certainty. I love my wife deeply and madly because of who she is, not in spite of who she is. My relationship with her is strong and yet fragile at the same time. Introducing another sexual relationship in the mix would weaken my relationship with her. This, coincidentally, is the meaning of the word 'adulterate' - to make a substance less pure by introducing a foreign, usually inferior substance.
There were times not too long ago when I would read stories or watch porn with some flavor of kink and get kind of resentful that I couldn't have that in my marriage. Those feelings certainly had the potential to undermine all of the other good things in my marriage. At the end of the day I finally realized that I am not willing to risk my marriage over any of that. I had to stop trying to mold my marriage to fit what I wanted, and accept my marriage for what it is. I had to become a servant of my marriage, putting it and my wife first because that is what is most important to me.
I think that you first need to ask yourself why you are in this relationship? What about it do you think is valuable after 14 years? What do you get out of it? Then ask yourself what is it about the things that you find here on Lit that draw you in? The thrill of new or different sexual relationships with other women? I think that having this "inventory" will help you make some decisions.
Sex is important, as you point out, but where is it on the list of important things? Will a new flame meet your other needs, and is that important? Will you want to meet hers, or is <insert flavor of sex> what you want? Is it more important than the other aspects of your relationship?
This is getting long and rambly, so let me just say that there are lots of reasons that people stay in relationships that are unsatisfying sexually. I propose that sometimes just maybe the sex is unsatisfying because the grass looks greener on the other side of the Internet fence. In those cases, perhaps learning how to discover that 'vanilla' sex can be satisfying might go a long ways towards healing the relationship and allowing it to reach it's potential in other ways.
It's not my place to judge you or your extra-relationship activities, but I would caution you that there are many things that can weaken your primary relationship. Exploring kink with an Internet lover when your wife has no interest in those things may just foment resentment and drive the two of you apart.
I guess if I had to summarize all of this in an old expression, be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. In a healthy relationship your wife can accept that you have fantasies and desires, while you accept that she is happy without exploring them. I would suggest that you figure out what is really important to you, and then protect those things at all costs. That may mean cutting back on things that give you that dopamine surge, like flirting with a lovely kinky lady on the web.
Best of luck to you both, and apologies if I have gone off on a wrong tangent.
I am the fantasizer in our bed. I would love to explore kink and lots of other things in our lovemaking, and have a vivid imagination
. I struggled for a long time with wanting to try everything at least once. My wife enjoys sex in different positions, but for a long time that was the extent of her idea of trying new things. I'm not saying that as criticism of her, but to point out that I get the frustration of wanting the forbidden fruit on the sexual menu.A huge part of any long term relationship based on mutual love and respect, in my opinion, is unconditionally accepting who she is as a woman, lover, and unique sexual being. When I was Jonesing for whatever my imagination was cooking up, I was paying lip service to the concept but frankly kind of resentful that she wasn't open to trying at least some of it. It wasn't healthy for my marriage.
I can only speak for myself, but in my case the reason that I want to be married to this woman is that I want a deeply fulfilling relationship with her, and her specifically. 'Deeply fulfilling' is a very complex and abstract idea, but let's just boil it down to both meeting my needs and meeting her needs. Sex is a big part of fulfilling my needs, among many other things, for several reasons. If I put the various fantasies aside, at the heart of the matter I had convinced myself that <insert sex act or kink here> would make sex more exciting. I felt like we were missing out on all of these possibilities. I had to ground myself with the fact that I really get off on getting her turned on and making her feel good. It makes me feel incredibly intimately connected to her when she lets me give her sexual pleasure and gives me sexual pleasure. I had to accept that I can do those things without the window dressing of my fantasies.
A reasonable question might be "Why should I?" Or, "Why not just go find the extra thrill outside of our relationship?" From there, "After all, isn't it kind of a big burden to put on anyone one person to meet all of my needs? What harm is there in online sex play to get it?" After 22 years I know one thing with absolute certainty. I love my wife deeply and madly because of who she is, not in spite of who she is. My relationship with her is strong and yet fragile at the same time. Introducing another sexual relationship in the mix would weaken my relationship with her. This, coincidentally, is the meaning of the word 'adulterate' - to make a substance less pure by introducing a foreign, usually inferior substance.
There were times not too long ago when I would read stories or watch porn with some flavor of kink and get kind of resentful that I couldn't have that in my marriage. Those feelings certainly had the potential to undermine all of the other good things in my marriage. At the end of the day I finally realized that I am not willing to risk my marriage over any of that. I had to stop trying to mold my marriage to fit what I wanted, and accept my marriage for what it is. I had to become a servant of my marriage, putting it and my wife first because that is what is most important to me.
I think that you first need to ask yourself why you are in this relationship? What about it do you think is valuable after 14 years? What do you get out of it? Then ask yourself what is it about the things that you find here on Lit that draw you in? The thrill of new or different sexual relationships with other women? I think that having this "inventory" will help you make some decisions.
Sex is important, as you point out, but where is it on the list of important things? Will a new flame meet your other needs, and is that important? Will you want to meet hers, or is <insert flavor of sex> what you want? Is it more important than the other aspects of your relationship?
This is getting long and rambly, so let me just say that there are lots of reasons that people stay in relationships that are unsatisfying sexually. I propose that sometimes just maybe the sex is unsatisfying because the grass looks greener on the other side of the Internet fence. In those cases, perhaps learning how to discover that 'vanilla' sex can be satisfying might go a long ways towards healing the relationship and allowing it to reach it's potential in other ways.
It's not my place to judge you or your extra-relationship activities, but I would caution you that there are many things that can weaken your primary relationship. Exploring kink with an Internet lover when your wife has no interest in those things may just foment resentment and drive the two of you apart.
I guess if I had to summarize all of this in an old expression, be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. In a healthy relationship your wife can accept that you have fantasies and desires, while you accept that she is happy without exploring them. I would suggest that you figure out what is really important to you, and then protect those things at all costs. That may mean cutting back on things that give you that dopamine surge, like flirting with a lovely kinky lady on the web.
Best of luck to you both, and apologies if I have gone off on a wrong tangent.
tryn2Bgood
Really Experienced
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Posts
- 182
^ Good advice.
Also, think about how this sounds...you found a near perfect sexual match online. Even considered leaving your current 14 yr relationship for this. But things fell apart because the woman wants some things that you feel are better left to fantasy. Now think about your fantasies and your current partner's thoughts on them...
JamesRTickit
Really Really Experienced
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- Nov 12, 2008
- Posts
- 496
I think i understand
Rik,
I have followed your threads so have a good take on your situation.
I used to be in a relationship for a while.
The woman had been in a sexless marriage and had then found men who wanted sex.
So she went a bit wild.
She told me that she had put herself in situations that might have gone wrong/ caused her harm, because she was getting the excitement she had missed.
When she looked back she realised the danger.
I guess your friend wanted to put herself at risk and you could not cope.
Nothing you can do if she actually wanted the real thing over the fantasy.
Rik,
I have followed your threads so have a good take on your situation.
I used to be in a relationship for a while.
The woman had been in a sexless marriage and had then found men who wanted sex.
So she went a bit wild.
She told me that she had put herself in situations that might have gone wrong/ caused her harm, because she was getting the excitement she had missed.
When she looked back she realised the danger.
I guess your friend wanted to put herself at risk and you could not cope.
Nothing you can do if she actually wanted the real thing over the fantasy.
rik_steele
Really Experienced
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
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- 225
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rik_steele
Really Experienced
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curiouschattycouple
Expanded Horizons
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2017
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- 787
Our conversations about sex often happen when we are apart. Somehow it is easier and we can talk about all of our deepest desires and fantasies with each other when we are apart and chatting on the phone. It started a few years ago when I was out of town for business for an extended period of time. Subsequent phone calls got more and more in depth, more graphic, and more secrets came out from both. When I got home, BOOM, it was amazing, and has been since - more creative, inventive, kinky, and often! Some of our best fantasies are things we can't/won't do for real, but love to talk about or act out in the bedroom together.
May not work for you, but try!
May not work for you, but try!
