Question for you Latin knowledgeable people

[Tawny T]

Have a new story, not sure if my title is correct.

I have used 'Sapphitic' in a story before. Saw it Sapphidic somewhere. Which is correct? The title is "Sapphitic Suburban Sighs". Right or wrong?

I knew just enough Latin to get by in med school, but not the derivation part. Any experts out there? Don't want to get clobbered when I post the story! Thanks!

Tina

tawny_t16@hotmail.com

 

[Weird Harold]

I have used 'Sapphitic' in a story before. Saw it Sapphidic somewhere. Which is correct? The title is "Sapphitic Suburban Sighs". Right or wrong?

Neither sounds right to me. I've always seen things derived from the Isle of Sapphos as "Sapphic"

That could just be a case of I've never seen it used correctly, though.

 

[Tawny T]

Harold, the island is Lesbos!

Sappho was a poetess from the Island of Lesbos, hence she was, alas, a Lesbian, but so were all the men from that island too! Oppps, still are! It's still around - the island!

Wonder if they mind anyone calling them that? "Hey,man, I ain't no Lesbian! I'll knock 'yr block off! You call me 'at ag'in!"

Now back to the question!

 

[Bigdog]

Hi Tawny!

Weird Harold was correct with "Sapphic", at least according to my sources. Supposedly is a reference to the form of verse used by or about Sappho.

Looking forward to reading the story behind the title.

 

[Tawny T]

True, but the question was not about meter in Sappho's poems. This is a story title, not a poem!

It has nothing to do with rhyming meters. The question was; The title is "Sapphitic Suburban Sighs". Right or wrong?

Sapphitic, or Sapphidic referring to a follower/devotee of Sappho? Who would be a Lesbian Sapphite if she lived on the island, but would be a Sapphite if she lived off the island.

(Modern ladies excepted-who probably never read a line of her poetry. Were they all born on Lesbos! All?)


[Edited by Tawny T on 12-28-2000 at 01:25 AM]

 

[Closet Desire]

Greek...not Latin

Latin came from the Romans. Sappho was Greek (612 BC) and thus spoke and wrote...well...Greek. She and a group of young women followers were dedicated to the cult of the goddess Aphrodite and this was the origin of the word 'Sapphic'.

"Once again Eros, the loosener of limbs, shakes me,
that bitter-sweet, irresistible creature."

Not a Greek scholar so, sorry, can't help with the proper forms of Greek, but Sapphic is always safe.

 

[Jimbow]

Sapphic

I believe that the word is actually greek based and not Latin.I think,if memory serves me well, she was a poet on the isle of Lesbos. Hence the use as an adjective or a desriptive noun

 

[Bigdog]

True, but the question was not about meter in Sappho's poems. This is a story title, not a poem!

It has nothing to do with rhyming meters. The question was; The title is "Sapphitic Suburban Sighs". Right or wrong?

Sapphitic, or Sapphidic referring to a follower/devotee of Sappho? Who would be a Lesbian Sapphite if she lived on the island, but would be a Sapphite if she lived off the island.

(Modern ladies excepted-who probably never read a line of her poetry. Were they all born on Lesbos! All?)


[Edited by Tawny T on 12-28-2000 at 01:25 AM]

OK, now I know what you were driving at. If a follower of Sappho is a Sapphite, then something relating to them would be Sapphitic. Sapphic would relate better to the source, but either is proper to use in your title.

 

[Closet Desire]

Sorry...

...doesn't work that way. You can't apply Latin derivatives to Greek and say it's "proper".

 

[Tawny T]

This is really wild! I love to stir up a hornets nest!

OK, Sappho was from the Greek island of Lesbos. She may have been Greek, but the question is still about the Latin derivation of the word Sappho, ie; Sapphic, Sapphitic/Sapphidic.

Def; Sapphic adj.[L. Sapphicus. < Gr. Sapphhikos < Sappho]. of Sappho. Of or pertaining to Sappho c 600BC.

Sapphitic Suburban Sighs? Sapphidic Suburban Sighs? Sapphic Suburban Sighs? The envelope please! And the answer is???????????

I'm still looking for a Latin expert to sort it all out.

I just like to do my homework, and not get clobbered after its posted. However, 99.9999% of my readers could care less. But I do!

Just read the threads over again. OK. A woman could be a Sapphic Lesbian, or a Sapphitic follower of Sappho, couldn't she? Makes sense to me. BIG GRIN - but what do I know?

Boy, wish I'd really paid more attention in that Latin class!

Thanks all, I really appreciate your comments.



[Edited by Tawny T on 12-28-2000 at 07:10 PM]

 

[Closet Desire]

Sigh...

A Latin expert won't be able to help you. Sappho was Greek. The word is Greek. Greek predates Latin by centuries. Greek shares nothing in common with Latin. They derived from entirely different fundamental languages, different cultures, different regions. That's where the expression "It's Greek to me" comes from. It means a language that is completely unintelligible. While the quote in the dictionary lists the Latin first by convention, it is actually the Latin translation of the original Greek.

Unlike English, Spanish, French, and Italian where many of the words are similar enough to be recognised, Greek is so different, using even a different alphabet, that no comparison is possible. In my field, where I have studied Greek literature translations, it becomes important to consider who translated the text, because word for word translation just isn't possible. Some translations may have been done in stages ie from Greek to Latin to English. The trouble with such translations is that something is lost each time. In fact, a favourite demonstration of language scholars is to translate from say English to French to German to Italian to Dutch and back into English. It isn't the same when you get it back. Sort of like the task of translating ancient Hebrew scrolls into modern day English. It's hard to imagine that some thoughts or expressions have no equivalent between the two languages. You'll notice it when you listen to Japanese or Chinese conversation and you hear English words pop up. It's because there is no equivalent for the expression in the native language.

I agree that 99.9% of your readers won't notice and I also appreciate that you want to be authentic. Then again, Sappho is already an English translation and your readers wouldn't even recognise it if you used the actual Greek. So, what's a writer to do? It's probably pedantic to insist on some sort of literary purity which only an academic (ie me) would care about. Sapphic is so commonly used that its meaning is unmistakable so it would be my choice. Still, I'll rummage around in my Greek books and see if anything interesting turns up.

 

[Weird Harold]

Def; Sapphic adj.[L. Sapphicus. < Gr. Sapphhikos < Sappho]. of Sappho. Of or pertaining to Sappho c 600BC.

Sapphitic Suburban Sighs? Sapphidic Suburban Sighs? Sapphic Suburban Sighs? The envelope please! And the answer is???????????

Just to confuse the issue a bit more -- My dictionary lists Sapphic as defined above (with some gobbledygook about "trochaic pentameter" added.), and Sapphism - n. Lesbianism. Could you be looking for Sapphistic Suburban Sighs?

My dictionalry doesn't give the derivition of either word, though. I'm not sure if 'Sapphism' is derived from a Latin construction or what.

Is the Latin version so important because of the story's setting or some other internal connection? I don't think you're going to get any closer than Sapphic or Sapphism, and 99 and four nines of your readers aren't going to get that close.

[Edited by Weird Harold on 12-28-2000 at 11:56 PM]

 

[Closet Desire]

Gotta go with...

...the old opinionated fart on this one. Sapphistic works better for me if you're going to fiddle with Greek.

 

[Skibum]

Sapphic is the adjective that is usually used to describe a woman who has desires towards other women. A lesbian.

Sapphic Suburban Sighs gets my vote.

 

[Tawny T]

ROTFLMAO

Thanks all. I REALLY appreciate the replies.

Damn, I love to stir up a hornets nest.

From the responses, at least one person thinks each word is correct! I'll give it some more thought before I send it in. Thanks.

BIG GRIN!!!!

 

[Tawny T]

Thank you One and All! Found a man who says he had 6 years of Latin. He says it's Sapphic. So Sapphic it is.

Look for Sapphic Suburban Sighs coming to a story site near you soon ( I hope )! Now I know!!!!!

OK Laurel and Manu, post the story - please! They're in Switzerland?? Just my luck!

Thanks all y'all that posted to the question! Big kiss to you!

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Mark Singer]

Just wondering...

...did them there Sapphic's ever git it on? Did them have fun?

(Sorry...)

 

[Paolo Labico]

Saphiddisism

Sorry to see you've ended the thread..it was most amusing to watch.

By the way I think its Saphidic, much like easten Jews are Sephardic..and no before you get started that's not a Hebrew suffix, its a Latin one on a Hebrew word!


Paul

 

[Paolo Labico]

revision

Let me be the first to utterly reject the validity of my previous comment.

The rule seems to be: drop the last vowel and add "ic" to show origen.

Thus for something having to do with Sappho you get: Sapphic.
But when pondering the actions of a follower of sappho: (Mmmmmmm...) a Saphite, it becomes Saphitic.
You wouldn't say Saphide, so no Saphidic.
Paul

How do you un-post your own stupidity??

 

[Tawny T]

Thank you Paolo! Well, it went off to press as Sapphic, but my thinking was that although Sappho was a Greek woman, Sappho was only her name! Hannibal was Carthaginian and is referred in different lighs, but not in his native tongue - what ever that was in Africa, -- but -- in Latin as that was the universal language of the day.

This is why I questioned the statement that a Latin rule for Sappho could not apply as she was Greek. That well may be, but Sappho and her poetry was translated into Latin, and hence down to us today in -- English.

We could also apply that thinking to something from the reign of Kubla Kahn and his Statley Halls of Xanadu. His name originally was written in what language? - I certainly don't know. Mongolian I assume! But that makes an ass of u and me!

But the fact is that now Kubla Kahn and the Stately Halls of Xanadu are in our English language. That's why I thought that Sapphitic, or even Sapphidic might apply to what I was trying - vainly to make into a title.

Hey, it made sense to me. Might not be correct - as it proved to be - but that was my reasoning. The Latin Expert said Sapphic, and Sapphic it became. Hope you enjoy the story.

I really appreciate all the inputs on it. It was loads of fun, but frustrating too.

Kisses to all.