Question for the ladies re: my wife

[lngtalltxn77]

A little background:

We are both in our early-mid thirties with kids, started dating in high school some and then college and were both virgins when we were married. We're from a conservative families that taught that sex was for marriage only. I still believe in this but I also think it has caused some unintentional negative stigma with sex for my wife.

I am a self confessed horny, pervert and I could have sex everyday. I feel like my wife could take it or leave it. She's never been an initiator. When I want sex or a blow job, she most often complies so it's not an issue of me being repressed. I love making her come and going down on her as much as I enjoy an orgasm myself. It's has always been upsetting to me that I don't feel like she has that same strong desire to please me without being asked to do so. She has come a long way from the beginning of our relationship so it's not like she hasn't evolved but sometimes I (pardon my frankness) just want her to be a horny slut. I've tried to be as honest with her as possible with my fantasies and desires to explore more sexually but I feel like she holds back or isn't totally honest due to being embarrassed or maybe there is some of that deep ingrained guilt from her upbringing. Not being braggy, but I am a little on the larger side so early on it was painful for her but we've gotten past that...maybe she developed some subconscious fear?

Example: I really enjoy making my wife come while 69'ing. Something about her moaning with my dick in her mouth...getting hard thinking about it. Anyway, I like to slip a finger/tongue in and around her asshole from this position. She always gives me a half hearted "stop" or "that's gross" but I promise you she comes harder with the tip of my finger in her ass while I'm licking her than any other time. I know it feels good to her but why can't she be honest with me and herself about it?

What do you think is going on? Why won't she initiate?

 

[silverwhisper]

it sounds to me like a classic case of not being comfortable with herself as a sexual creature. she may feel that even within your marriage, these thoughts are inappropriate. she's been conditioned to believe [x] isn't right, quite possibly because it does not lead to pregnancy.

so when you've attempted to discuss this with her, i'm kinda curious at how you've approached it.

is she comfortable expressing her desires and preferences when it doesn't relate to sexuality? because it's also possible that's part of her personality: not being comfortable pursuing things that might matter to her.

this isn't exactly an uncommon situation for couples on this forum so you've come to the right place!

ed

 

[sunandshadow]

Sometimes it's a matter of priorities - maybe she thinks it doesn't matter if it feel better because it's more important to not be gross. Many people seem to carry a who peanut gallery of critical people (or rather, mental impressions of people) around in their head. People who aren't good at ignoring other people's criticism often feel shame, guilt, revulsion, fear, etc. when they do something that "the people on their bus" would not approve of, and this kind of emotional discomfort can outweigh or spoil other physical or emotional pleasures for them. There are self-help and self-actualization books for this kind of thing. But people who are affected by criticism are the kind of people who take a lot of care of their appearance and are always polite; people who can ignore criticism tend to also decide they don't give a shit about shaving, makeup, and playing nice.

 

[pplwatching]

It sounds to me like she's just normal. There can be dynamics at play that have nothing to do with her upbringing. There's a lot of cliche's about sex. One of them is that a woman's sexual response is like a crock pot while a man's is like a microwave. She takes a long time to warm up but stays hot once she's there. A man is on and cooking with the press of a button. There seems to be some truth to that. It can be difficult for those of us who think about sex all of the time to wrap our heads around the fact that our spouse doesn't think about sex much, even if she's a tornado in bed when we get her warmed up. Add kids to the mix, and making the mental switch between "kids mom" to "whore at the bedroom door" can be very difficult. If she's thinking about sleep or just trying to unwind when she finally makes it into bed, then initiating sex with you is the last thing on her mind.

Not everyone thinks "one in the stink" is good clean fun even if they respond to it in the heat of the moment. Some women feel that their back door is "exit only" even if it does feel good to have it played with. That's not "holding back" or being repressed, it's just who she is.

I believe that one of the cornerstones of marriage is unconditional acceptance of who our spouse is, including sexually. Some women need seduction and foreplay to warm to up sex. My suggestion is to quit resenting who she isn't and start warming up the crock pot long before you get in bed. Flirt with her, hold hands, and make a regular effort to show desire for her both as a unique person and as a unique sexual being. Build intimacy, excitement, and anticipation all through the day and then reap the rewards between the sheets.

Even then there's no guarantees. My wife very rarely initiates sex, but if I get her worked up she's a tiger that loves doing kinky things for me. She doesn't have fantasies but she's willing to listen to and explore mine. She'll tell you that she's not an "creative idea person", but she'll follow my lead if I start something. It wasn't always like that. We went through a dry spell, and all that I can say looking back is that I really don't care if I am the one initiating or making suggestions or asking for something kinky. I'm just thrilled that we're having great sex. Getting there required me to accept who she is sexually without reservations or wishing she was different. She is who she is and it's unfair to expect her to change. The only thing that I could change was my own attitude and approach to sex.

I'd say that if she's enjoying sex when you have it, then don't worry about who initiates or whether or not you have to ask for something. And if she doesn't like having her salad tossed, then find other things to do that she does like.

Just my $.02

 

[alice27]

Exactly

I agree with silver whisper. This is about her. She's uncomfortable with her body, doesn't feel beautiful and can not embrace her sexuality. This takes a lot of growing up, and inner work. As a female I am not sure what to suggest... I've been there, but I grew out if this. I grew up from a little girl to a woman, I understood that to be beautiful was to embrace every part of who I am. Anyway, I surpassed my husband in terms of desire, he held back, didn't want to do anything other than the two positions he knows and god forbid he would enjoy going down on me. I left him. Like you, I married my high school sweet heart and had only ever slept with him. I have yet to meet/date a man who enjoys 69ing or going down on me. I guess maybe I taste awful or something is wrong with me. But anyway! This is just my experience. I went from hating the taste of cum to craving it. My attitude changed when I realized how much my man enjoyed my initiating. From there I began to desire to please him, it's amazingly empowering to make your man cum.
I'm not saying you should leave her, I'm just saying that you may need to accept that she will never change. I'm early thirties, for frame of reference.
Best of luck.
Keep seducing her, keep telling her she's gorgeous, and maybe one day she will hear and believe you.
Try to encourage her to talk about what turns her on and what is sexy to her. Get her mind on sex all the time....

 

[LadyVer]

The guilt is an ingrained, hard to break thing when raised in a conservative, religious home, especially for women. And women are still being told daily by the far right wing, that women are to be quiet and not rock the boat, that sex is ok for having children, but other than that women who want sex for pleasure have something wrong with them. It may just be an issue of time, as well as learning to enjoy sex for what it is, one of most pleasurable and weirdest activities that can bring partners more intimacy and satisfaction when done with a good attitude. The learning curve is different for everyone.

 

[lngtalltxn77]

Thanks for the replies guys. I just want to reiterate or state if I failed to do so in my post that I don't resent my wife at all. I love her very much and she's a wonderful mother to my kids. I can't see myself with anyone else.

We've discussed her not initiating over the course of our marriage and while I don't like it, I can live with it because she's totally worth it. I'm not sure that she can even put her finger on what causes this inability but we sort have an agreement now that I'll be the initiator. Not to sound like I'm whining but it just tends to hurt my feelings that I desire to please her sexually so much and really love doing it but I don't get that reciprocation without having to ask for it.

I am eager to explore more sexually with her away from our normal routine but I'm not sure she'll get there because I don't think sex is super important to her. I really don't think it's a body image issue as she is very attractive and I make sure to tell her that consistently. And like another poster mentioned about his wife above, she enjoys being intimate once she's warmed up and has regular orgasms from oral and manual stimulation. I don't think intercourse is that good for her as she's not very active during the act but she has become quite good over the years at giving oral and I know she enjoys receiving it.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, given the wrong impressions regarding my affection for my wife or appeared chauvinistic. I just wanted to ask what's normal? Being with one partner, I just don't know.

 

[pplwatching]

I just wanted to ask what's normal? Being with one partner, I just don't know.

Marriage is full of little traps. One of them is trying to compare our marriage to other people's marriages. Other people are having more sex than we are. Other people are having better sex than we are. Guess what? "Normal" is a myth. What works for one couple won't work for another. What works for the two of you won't work for someone else. Your love is unique, and so are your expressions of love to and for each other. What's normal for you today won't be normal next year. The only constant in marriage is change. We have to be committed to accepting who our lover is today and who they will become in the future. Your wife may spend the rest of her life adoring the fact that you seduce her and make her feel like a sexual object. She may discover that as her hormones change she wants to be more aggressive in bed. The future is wide open, and through loving communication you can help shape it.

That commitment goes both ways, by the way. She needs to commit to discovering and accepting who you are as a unique sexual being. Some men enjoy sex for the sake of physical pleasure and don't get anything else out of it. Others, myself included, enjoy sex for the emotional connection it provides including fulfilling a need to please her sexually. Neither way is right, wrong, or "normal". The questions are only, "What does sex mean to me and us?" and "How can we strive to be more perfect lovers for each other?" You have every right to want to feel desired sexually. You may discover that her acceptance of your sexual advances on a daily basis is her expression of desire for you. If you'd like more, or different, then it's on you to lovingly approach her with creative ideas. It's on her to be open to ideas in her comfort zone. If you want to be seduced but spontaneity isn't her thing, you might ask her to plan once a month to seduce you. Some of us, myself included, get a lot out of our lover putting in the effort to keep the flame alive.

Another little trap is thinking that sex begins or ends in the bedroom with physical intimacy. It might for some, but many of us discover that sex is in little things like back rubs and holding hands. When we do have "PIV sex" it's almost like picking up where we left off the last time that I rubbed lotion on her back. It's a natural progression of what we started outside of the bedroom.

I am a big fan of marriage and wish you both the best. Keep on communicating with each other.

 

[silverwhisper]

there's an old saying we like to use here on how to: "'normal' is a setting on a washing machine."

lngtall, it's completely typical for a woman not to achieve climax during intercourse: there's a study out there somewhere citing an 80% rate of women who don't experience orgasm through intercourse*.

in terms of trying to encourage more confidence: i'm not sure there's a specific course of action that can be recommended by complete strangers online who've never met you, your wife or seen how you two relate to one another.

but one step you could take might be to talk to one of her closest friends & ask her input on how to encourage more confidence. that might prove a wealth of ideas if you can establish trust.

ed

*as you already know, there's a much better route to that place for her.

 

[littlecordelera]

but one step you could take might be to talk to one of her closest friends

With all due respect, I have to strongly disagree.

To take a subject matter that your wife is clearly uncomfortable with and discuss it with one of her friends sounds like a sure fire train wreck to me.

The problem is this: In America, a woman who enjoys sex for the sake of sex is viewed as a dirty, worthless, slut-whore-bitch. We are continuously indoctrinated from birth by parents, schools, boyfriends, the media, and the ever-threatening bad reputation. On the other hand, boys will be boys, right?

Until your wife knows that:

1. You will not view her as a slut-whore-bitch,
2. You will not violate her trust (tell others),
3. You appreciate her as more than an object of sex,

expect her to hold back. She has to know that her feelings are your most cherished and protected possessions.

 

[lngtalltxn77]

"Until your wife knows that:

1. You will not view her as a slut-whore-bitch,
2. You will not violate her trust (tell others),
3. You appreciate her as more than an object of sex,"


I would be devastated and surprised if she didn't know where I stood on any of the above.

 

[littlecordelera]

I would be devastated and surprised if she didn't know where I stood on any of the above.

Given the situation as you have described, I suspect she is afraid of item No. 1. And that's not because of you. It's because of American culture. My guess is you will have to overcome her indoctrination, and that will take time and patience and understanding. Knowing where you stand cannot change how she feels about herself.

 

[silverwhisper]

littlecordelera quoth:
with all due respect, i have to strongly disagree.

that's because you focused on the wrong part. what i said was:

but one step you could take might be to talk to one of her closest friends & ask her input on how to encourage more confidence. that might prove a wealth of ideas if you can establish trust.

ed

 

[littlecordelera]

that's because you focused on the wrong part. what i said was:

You might be correct. Actually, I understood what you said, and I disagree that I focused on the wrong part, because I don't see how it is possible for the OP to discuss "encouraging more confidence" without being more specific about the intimate subject.

But, who knows, maybe he can. One thing's for sure, he'll be walking on thin ice, because if it comes around and his wife finds out, she will know that it was about this intimate subject, and being that she wasn't there for the conversation...

It will be easier for him to build an Egyptian pyramid than it will be to rebuild her trust.

 

[silverwhisper]

well then, we disagree. as i intimated from my first post, this is about confidence more than it is about anything else. boost confidence, and this gets addressed too. her friends never need to know the impetus behind the question and assuming lngtlltxn isn't a complete moron, he can conceal/deflect til the cows come home.

ed

 

[littlecordelera]

and assuming lngtlltxn isn't a complete moron

It's not necessary to belittle my opinion.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

I have to disagree as well with the "discuss with friends" part

I think that one of the worst things you can do is discuss it with her friends. Her friends are her intimate confidants.. not yours. Girl friends are like diaries. Open that one and there is a chance that you'll actually make the situation worse. If her friends thought that she had a problem with confidence.. they've already talked to her about it. You'd be like that creepy guy at the club who is trying to get into the group.

I don't read anywhere in the initial post that the wife doesn't like herself. If the two of you waited until marriage.. she might be a little old fashioned and I would guess that her exposure to sexual play has been less than some have experienced. Go slow.. explore.. make a game of it..
a lengthy game of "do you trust me" can take things pretty far

 

[SassySheDevil]

I also agree with talking to friends. For the reasons mentioned above, but also because the friend you chose to go to might be that one that will now want to "save you" from what your wife is not giving you and through flirting and whatever, may end up wanting to help you out.

I like having friends that are just mine.. That would feel weird to know my husband went to them for anything more then Christmas/birthday ideas.

That being said. It wasn't until my late 20's that i really decided I needed to let go and freak out. Like the OP, I married my high school sweetheart and he was my only. I just eventually needed to break out of boredom. So maybe she just isn't at that point yet. I'm still as insecure as can be, but I'm much more confident of my sexuality and am learning to embrace it. There's still a few things that make me embarrassed but I push them aside as soon as I see his face.

 

[lngtalltxn77]

Complete moron? Maybe just a partial moron I don't think I'd feel comfortable speaking to her friends as I think it would bother me if she discussed me and my attitude toward sex with one of my buddies. Just seems kind of awkward and a potential high risk/low reward situation.

My wife is a very confident woman in most, if not all, other areas, I think I really agree with one of the posters above that it's a sexual confidence thing and maybe even some guilt...which kind of sucks since we sacrificed and waited until marriage.

 

[bailadora]

My wife is a very confident woman in most, if not all, other areas, I think I really agree with one of the posters above that it's a sexual confidence thing and maybe even some guilt...which kind of sucks since we sacrificed and waited until marriage.

She might not even really be aware of her what's out there. I grew up pretty sheltered and also married young. I don't think I really started exploring different ideas until I was in my early thirties. And even then, I had a difficult time coming to terms with some of my kinks. If I couldn't admit to myself that I like some things, how in the hell was I going to confess them to my husband?

This is journey that she has to want to make for herself, and it's a process that can take years. Really, I think the best thing you can do is provide a supportive, non judgmental environment and then let her do the rest in her own time and in her own way. Maybe she'll reveal something to you further down the road. Then again, maybe she won't. She may very well be like Pplwatching's wife, and not really have any fantasies, but will accept the lead of her spouse.

On a related note, have you spoken to her of your desire to have her initiate in terms of how it makes you feel? It took me a long time to realize that sex wasn't just a physical release for my husband, that it was also a very important way to foster the emotional bond between us. What I perceived as him being a nag was really him seeking reassurance that I still found him sexy and desirable. Sometimes, I think women tend to underestimate how fragile our SO's egos can be in this area and we tend to not be as nurturing of it as we can. I know that once the light bulb clicked, my attitude did a complete 180.

 

[silverwhisper]

ittlecordelera quoth:
it's not necessary to belittle my opinion.

for what it's worth, i didn't mean to but in rereading i see that i could've done a better job expressing myself without sounding dismissive. i apologize: that wasn't intentional. i've seen some of the other things you post and generally think your contributions are sensible.

ed

 

[littlecordelera]

for what it's worth, i didn't mean to but in rereading i see that i could've done a better job expressing myself without sounding dismissive. i apologize: that wasn't intentional. i've seen some of the other things you post and generally think your contributions are sensible.

ed

Thank you. It was very nice of you to respond so kindly...a very rare thing to experience on the Internet.

 

[silverwhisper]

you're welcome and thank you in turn for pointing out my rudeness so graciously: it's much appreciated. i agree that there's a paucity of cordiality online.



back on topic: since a number of women have told me my suggestion was pretty stupid (and ladies, thank you for doing so politely), i'm glad to see that lngtall has opted to against it. :>

ed

 

[Scattered_Ice]

What do you think is going on? Why won't she initiate?

1. most women are submissive
2. marriage tends to kill passion
3. make her read "my secret garden" so she'll realize that women are pervs by nature
4. if all fails have vanilla sex with her and get escorts for your other needs if that's legal where you are

 

[GiggLeGasm]

1. most women are submissive
2. marriage tends to kill passion
3. make her read "my secret garden" so she'll realize that women are pervs by nature
4. if all fails have vanilla sex with her and get escorts for your other needs if that's legal where you are

wow.

I think it's odd when people profess absolute truths about one gender or the other, as if to suggest that each of us is that predictable based on our body parts.

A while back, Dateline followed a number of people through marriage counseling and then published their findings over several weeks....

a couple of interesting things:
(and I do not mean this as a negative reflection on the op.. just as an alternate opinion to the above post)

A common myth is that the low desire partner is hung up about sex. This is one of the greatest surprises for couples. There is a low desire partner (and a high desire partner) in every relationship, whether you have sexual problems or not. “Low desire” and “high desire” are relative positions in a relationship, rather than something measured against a numerical preferred frequency. In many cases, the low desire partner is actually more erotically inclined and/or more sexually experienced than the high desire partner. The low desire partner knows the sex they’re having isn’t worth wanting, that’s why they’re not interested. It’s the high desire partner’s desire for additional servings of lousy sex that needs to be questioned.

and the other myth: Sexual desire problems mean you’re falling out of love or something else is going wrong in your marriage. Normal couples have sexual desire problems because the processes of self-development permeate love relationships. This shows up as arguments about autonomy, power, status, and feeling controlled. When you and your partner are struggling over whether you (your body) first belong(s) to yourself (and you can share if you want to) or your partner has a right to your body because you agreed to monogamy, it’s not uncommon to stop having sex for months or a year or more.