Question for experienced authors re: under-age characters

[PeytonMirabelle]

Hey, all. Just a question for folks who have been doing this a bit longer than me. I understand any story depicting under-age (under 18) characters in sexual situations is going to get rejected but where is the line? I've seen some stories with teen pregnancy or characters who were molested as kids, so I'm curious.

I ask because I have a character recounting her life experience, some of which takes place in high school. I didn't write anything explicit, though there are some obvious implications. Will that be trouble? Or are only over descriptions trouble?

I can post the draft blurb if that will help.

Thanks!

 

[SimonDoom]

Hey, all. Just a question for folks who have been doing this a bit longer than me. I understand any story depicting under-age (under 18) characters in sexual situations is going to get rejected but where is the line? I've seen some stories with teen pregnancy or characters who were molested as kids, so I'm curious.

I ask because I have a character recounting her life experience, some of which takes place in high school. I didn't write anything explicit, though there are some obvious implications. Will that be trouble? Or are only over descriptions trouble?

I can post the draft blurb if that will help.

Thanks!

The Site takes a very expansive view of what constitutes "sexual activity" when it comes to underage activity. So it's easy to run afoul of this rule.

It's OK in a remembrance of the past to state in a very brief summary way that something happened in the past. But if it is in any way sexual in nature and is more than a brief summary it probably will not be allowed.

For instance, it's probably OK to say "I lot my virginity when I was a teen."

But it's not OK to go into any detail about it.

Voyeurism, masturbation, fantasy thoughts -- these are all "sexual activity." So any specific descriptions of this activity taking place with underage characters won't be allowed.

 

[NotWise]

Hey, all. Just a question for folks who have been doing this a bit longer than me. I understand any story depicting under-age (under 18) characters in sexual situations is going to get rejected but where is the line? I've seen some stories with teen pregnancy or characters who were molested as kids, so I'm curious.

I ask because I have a character recounting her life experience, some of which takes place in high school. I didn't write anything explicit, though there are some obvious implications. Will that be trouble? Or are only over descriptions trouble?

I can post the draft blurb if that will help.

Thanks!

I don't think Laurel draws a sharp line, so it's hard to say where it is.

Your safest bet is to avoid pushing the limits at all. If the underage content is critical to the story, then be prepared to take it back and maybe publish it somewhere else.

Lit does not deny that characters may have had sex before eighteen. You can infer it, and you can say that it happened, but you can't describe it. Any erotic element in the description may trigger a rejection. Something as simple as "there was a bulge in my pants" is all it takes.

Lit uses the broadest possible definition of sex, so keep that in mind when you decide what to do.

 

[yowser]

The line is very fine, and sometimes inconsistent. It is hair-trigger for some editors, who the moment they get a sense under-age activity is involved, will send it back, even if the story technically falls within the rules, which it sounds like you have read carefully:

. No sexual activity involving ... underage persons will be considered.

Some of my stories allude to underage activity (an earlier girlfriend, mutual jo sessions as teenagers, etc.) and have gotten accepted, but there was NO Description of what happened, only allusion.

Some of my stuff has gotten through the technical border, but it was minor.

I have also had stories sent back, even when the characters were obviously married and middle-aged, so I think who is doing the editing makes a difference.

I personally hate the 'all characters are over the age of 18' disclaimer up front, but enough people use it to make me think they have had narratives sent back.

 

[MelissaBaby]

As others have said, you refer to underage sex, you can make allusions to it, you just can't describe it. I thought it might be helpful to put up a couple of examples from my work that passed through without any issues.

From My Fall and Rise, Chapter Two:

In a small town fifteen miles from the nearest movie theater, thirty miles from the nearest shopping mall, there were only a few means by which I could appease my restlessness. By the time I graduated from high school, I was well acquainted with liquor, with marijuana and with men.

From Mary and Alvin, Chapter Nine:

"So," Alvin began tentatively, "I got called to come in and talk to the principal. I'm figuring you know what it was about."

Jennifer looked down into her glass. "I guess so."

"Alright, well let's start with you ain't in no kind of trouble, so you can go ahead and look at me when we are talking."

Jennifer looked up at her father.

"You want to tell me about it?"

She hesitated a minute, then said, "I kissed Donna Cloutier in the girl's bathroom and Miss Edwards came in and saw us."

"Yeah, I know that part. That's not what I meant."

"What then?" she shrugged.

"Were you just playing at, whatever, or is this something serious we need to talk about?"

"Can it be something serious we don't need to talk about?"

"I think we need to talk about it at least once."

"Why?"

"Because I'm your father and it's my job to look out for you. I can't do that if you keep secrets from me. Big secrets anyway, I don't need to know every damn thing."

Jennifer sipped her milkshake for a minute, then looked her father in the eye. "I don't like boys. I like girls."

Alvin shrugged. "Girls smell better."

 

[PeytonMirabelle]

Thanks!

Thanks everyone, for the feedback and the examples. I appreciate the rapid response.

I'll just dial back the heat of what I originally wrote and see if it's acceptable when I submit.

Of course that means I might have to turn it up some more after the character grows up, to make up for it.

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

The line is very fine, and sometimes inconsistent. It is hair-trigger for some editors, who the moment they get a sense under-age activity is involved, will send it back, even if the story technically falls within the rules, which it sounds like you have read carefully:

. No sexual activity involving ... underage persons will be considered.

Some of my stories allude to underage activity (an earlier girlfriend, mutual jo sessions as teenagers, etc.) and have gotten accepted, but there was NO Description of what happened, only allusion.

Some of my stuff has gotten through the technical border, but it was minor.

I have also had stories sent back, even when the characters were obviously married and middle-aged, so I think who is doing the editing makes a difference.

I personally hate the 'all characters are over the age of 18' disclaimer up front, but enough people use it to make me think they have had narratives sent back.

Even when the characters were middle aged? Really?

Shut the front door!

That’s crazy.

 

[NotWise]

Even when the characters were middle aged? Really?

Shut the front door!

That’s crazy.

First off, the site does not edit submitted stories. Laurel publishes them or returns them, and she is the only person responsible for site content.

In the case cited, it's possible that either there was a back story that violated the content rule, or the couple's underage children were witnesses. If the story were really nothing but a middle-aged couple having sex, then the right action would have been to resubmit the story with an explanation in the Notes section.

 

[SimonDoom]

I have also had stories sent back, even when the characters were obviously married and middle-aged, so I think who is doing the editing makes a difference.

.

My understanding is that there is only one person who approves stories, Laurel. She's not an editor. She just screens stories. The explanation for any inconsistency you see is not different editors but the fact that the one person who screens the stories has to screen over 80 stories a day with limited time. She cannot screen every story in detail so some inconsistency is inevitable.

 

[yowser]

Thanks for starting this thread, I have learned a thing or two.

I both misspoke and misapprehended the acceptance process. I figured there was a front line of 'editors' (not in the proper sense that Literotica uses, of volunteer editors, but some sort of editorial board that screened stories. But Simon says it is all Laurel? My word, I am totally impressed, since even the <i>Ubermensch</i> could not review all the stories that get submitted every day and get it perfectly.)

I guess my own moral, if there is one, is not to give up when a story gets rejected (for this, or any reason) but employ one of the volunteer editors (if you are nervous about your tale, you might want to do this first anyway.) I am guessing the editors will have a pretty good sense of what is kosher regarding underage mentions, and provide suitable advice.

For what it is worth, here is the story that got sent back:Suzanne Comes Again

To be fair, it was the beginning of a second series, and the main characters had their outlines fairly well fleshed out in the first series (nowhere close to underage) and one could not expect someone to read the first series to establish that. On the other hand, even without that background, it seemed impossible to me that the protagonists could be envisioned as underage. My volunteer editor agreed, I resubmitted it (with no changes) and it got published.

Lot going on behind the scenes...

 

[SimonDoom]

I guess my own moral, if there is one, is not to give up when a story gets rejected ...

Definitely, do not give up. Laurel is human, and she makes mistakes, and she will correct her mistakes if you give her a good reason. I have had a story rejected, and I was puzzled at first, but I sent a response to Laurel with my reasons in detail why the story should be accepted, and she changed her mind.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Thanks everyone, for the feedback and the examples. I appreciate the rapid response.

I'll just dial back the heat of what I originally wrote and see if it's acceptable when I submit.

Of course that means I might have to turn it up some more after the character grows up, to make up for it.

If you have under-eighteen characters keep them completely away from any scene with sexual content - what I call the "five-hundred words away" rule. You can have a one liner that says, Janey lost her virginity at sixteen, but don't mention the back seat and don't describe anything sexual with a child or teenager in the room or even nearby.

 

[KeithD]

I guess my own moral, if there is one, is not to give up when a story gets rejected (for this, or any reason) but employ one of the volunteer editors (if you are nervous about your tale, you might want to do this first anyway.) I am guessing the editors will have a pretty good sense of what is kosher regarding underage mentions, and provide suitable advice.

I wouldn't put too much store in a volunteer editor's grasp of this (or anything else, for that matter). They are hit and miss as far as any knowledge or experience. There's no vetting to become a volunteer editor here. You just raise your hand.

 

[LexxRuthless]

I have run afoul of this guideline far too often, and I've had multiple rejections for "underage sex." Two of my stories were flagged and removed from the site for the same reason. On the bright side, I got a very clearly-worded explanation a few rejections ago:

"As our submission FAQ states, we do not accept stories involving people under the age of 18 in sexual situations. This includes but is not limited to talking explicitly about sex, voyeurism, exhibitionism, fantasizing, masturbation, and graphic sexualized descriptions, in addition to actual sexual intercourse."

In the story in question, I was trying to present a portrait of a young man's sexual obsession with his older sister. There was no underage sex, but you are not allowed to even have an under-18 character even notice (in this example) that his older sister had an impressive rack in high school.

It can be frustrating as an author to have such a limit, but as long as you are aware of it, you can figure out what sorts of stories you can or cannot submit.

 

[gunhilltrain]

[Material prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The line is very fine, and sometimes inconsistent. It is hair-trigger for some editors, who the moment they get a sense under-age activity is involved, will send it back, even if the story technically falls within the rules, which it sounds like you have read carefully:

. No sexual activity involving ... underage persons will be considered.

Some of my stories allude to underage activity (an earlier girlfriend, mutual jo sessions as teenagers, etc.) and have gotten accepted, but there was NO Description of what happened, only allusion.

Some of my stuff has gotten through the technical border, but it was minor.

I have also had stories sent back, even when the characters were obviously married and middle-aged, so I think who is doing the editing makes a difference.

I personally hate the 'all characters are over the age of 18' disclaimer up front, but enough people use it to make me think they have had narratives sent back.

There is only one person who vets all the stories on Lit., that's Laurel. I'm sure she has several processes that she uses to weed out certain things and they might hiccup on certain words used in proximity to other words.

ie. child close to fuck or any other sexual word. Just a heads up.

 

[LWulf]

I was just thinking of adding a thread like this last night.

To pose a similar, but different aspect of the OP's question, (yes, I know no one has the answers, I'm just asking for opinions):

How do you handle a character who grows into maturity? Specifically romantic flirtations/attraction. Can those be exhibited by someone under 18 towards someone over 18?

 

[SimonDoom]

If you really want to write abut underage sex, write a book - a novel or collection of short stories. I guess there is an idea that one has to go out and seek a book in a library or store. Material online is available with a few keystrokes and anybody can access it so it is more restricted. (Although the amount of free pornography online is amazing; one no longer has to go to a sleazy store to get it.)

Lots of authors have done it: Erica Jong in Fear of Flying, Philip Roth (Portnoy's Complaint), John Updike (especially Rabbit Redux), Nathanael West (The Day of the Locust and A Cool Million), I believe Anais Nin. And of course there is Lolita.

But print publishing is a different world. Can anybody mention some other literary works with underage characters?

One of the strangest is the underage group sex scene in Stephen King's It.

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

First off, the site does not edit submitted stories. Laurel publishes them or returns them, and she is the only person responsible for site content.

In the case cited, it's possible that either there was a back story that violated the content rule, or the couple's underage children were witnesses. If the story were really nothing but a middle-aged couple having sex, then the right action would have been to resubmit the story with an explanation in the Notes section.

A-ha! Thank you for that. I’ll include a brief summary for Laurel when submitting the story and what it involves. It’ll be a much smoother process for her when allowing thing to be posted.

 

[roxymoves]

Just to throw this in the mix, I don't think it matters if both participants are underage. My understanding is that in many/most states, it's not statutory rape unless one of the participants is over 18. So I wrote a story that included a brief scene of a bf/gf pair who have sex days before their 18th birthdays. It got rejected. I was probably thinking too much like a lawyer to draw that fine of a line, but just throwing it out there.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

How do you handle a character who grows into maturity? Specifically romantic flirtations/attraction. Can those be exhibited by someone under 18 towards someone over 18?

A passing mention seems to be fine 'I met him when I was 15 and fancied him immediately' kind of thing, but any more detail, no.

I struggled with phrasing in my last story - the age of consent is 16 in England so that complicated things - and ended up with a rather clunky sentence. A shop assistant who has known our protagonist since she was 13 starts flirting with her, and for the purposes of the story this had to be at 18.
"I'd never experienced real lust before. It had seemed odd, finally reaching the age of majority a couple months before, which so many people celebrated, not to mention the age of consent two years before, but I'd really never been bothered about trying this sex thing. At last, I saw their point."

I suspect readers will be thinking "bollocks you weren't, love", which is fine by me.

I was happier with my phrasing later in the story talking about a different guy:
"Of course, he was about three, possibly four years younger than my almost twenty-three. A lot, when you considered an equal four years younger than him might be as young as fourteen -- when you're excited but terrified by the idea of sex; obsessed yet so relieved to be under age so that no-one should be confronting you with the reality..."

I think I will need to give Laurel a note for my next story as there is a lot of sex in the proximity of 10, 12 and 15-year-olds - but they are all bottles of whisky so should be fine.

 

[NotWise]

Just to throw this in the mix, I don't think it matters if both participants are underage. My understanding is that in many/most states, it's not statutory rape unless one of the participants is over 18. So I wrote a story that included a brief scene of a bf/gf pair who have sex days before their 18th birthdays. It got rejected. I was probably thinking too much like a lawyer to draw that fine of a line, but just throwing it out there.

The laws of consent and/or majority in your state or country make absolutely no difference here. The "over eighteen" rule is Laurel's rule.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

I think I will need to give Laurel a note for my next story as there is a lot of sex in the proximity of 10, 12 and 15-year-olds - but they are all bottles of whisky so should be fine.

Those impressionable bottles of whisky need to be removed from your custody immediately!

 

[PeytonMirabelle]

Will update when....

Thanks, everyone, for all the good responses. Insightful conversation. Seems like a sticky subject, to be sure.

Right now, I just scaled it back to the character realizing her body's changing, coping with her hormones, and overhearing her mother and father discussing her (obvious) frustration. Other than mentioning a few long kisses with one of her dates, nothing overt is depicted until she's over eighteen.

I should finish writing and editing it in about a week; after I submit, I will report the results here.

 

[LWulf]

Thanks, everyone, for all the good responses. Insightful conversation. Seems like a sticky subject, to be sure.

Right now, I just scaled it back to the character realizing her body's changing, coping with her hormones, and overhearing her mother and father discussing her (obvious) frustration. Other than mentioning a few long kisses with one of her dates, nothing overt is depicted until she's over eighteen.

I should finish writing and editing it in about a week; after I submit, I will report the results here.

As I recall reading Laurels concept of what is "okay" is that sex isn't something that minors even consider. That, as far as she is concerned, at 18, sexual thoughts and actions, never previously conceived, suddenly spring to mind in an 18 year old character.