question about writing

[SuzySteve]

Is it acceptable to begin a section of a book or begin a book itself in the following way:
==============================================

Bob walked into the office with an envelope in his hand
"Listen", he said, "I will not go for any of this today"
==============================================

Is it okay to begin a line with a quote or is it bad to do such a thing?

 

[BlackShanglan]

Is it acceptable to begin a section of a book or begin a book itself in the following way:
==============================================

Bob walked into the office with an envelope in his hand
"Listen", he said, "I will not go for any of this today"
==============================================

Is it okay to begin a line with a quote or is it bad to do such a thing?

That looks perfectly fine to me. In general usage, one indents the first line of each paragraph and the beginning of each new speaker's dialogue, but web pages often just leave a blank line instead. Those sentences are both missing final punctuation (period/full stop), but otherwise this looks fine. Personally, I like stories that begin with dialogue; I get a sense of action and movement, rather than static description. That helps to get things underway.

Shanglan

 

[SuzySteve]

Re: Re: question about writing

Those sentences are both missing final punctuation (period/full stop),

Are quotation marks considered to be equal to a period? (and therefore I don't need a period after a quote).

 

[TheEarl]

Re: Re: Re: question about writing

Are quotation marks considered to be equal to a period? (and therefore I don't need a period after a quote).

Nu-uh. All sentences must have either a full-stop (period), an exclamation mark or a question mark. When there's quotation marks, the full-stop/exclamation/question mark goes inside them.

"This is a good sentence." - Good
"This is a bad sentence" - Bad
"This is also a bad sentence". - Bad

The same goes for commas: "This is a good sentence," he said.

NB. Whenever you're attaching a he said/she said/they moaned after a bit of dialogue, that dialogue must always end in a comma and that comma goes inside the speechmarks. The ONLY time this does not apply is when the dialogue needs to end in a question mark or an exclamation mark:

"This is a good sentence!" he said.
"Is this a good sentence?" he asked.

The Earl

Endlessly edited as I thought of new things to say.

 

[AlteregoID]

Re: Re: Re: question about writing

Are quotation marks considered to be equal to a period? (and therefore I don't need a period after a quote).

No, you need punctuation inside quotes.

"You look nice," the man said with a grin. "Actually nice enough to eat."

Though that is all one line of dialogue, if you use a comma in the first part, the statement in between needs a period, and the end of the dialogue still needs to be closed. It is like combining two sentances into one, both still need proper punctuation however.

 

[Pure]

Hi Black,

As to your rule,

[Question:Are quotation marks considered to be equal to a period? (and therefore I don't need a period after a quote). ]


Nu-uh. All sentences must have either a full-stop (period), an exclamation mark or a question mark. When there's quotation marks, the full-stop/exclamation/question mark goes inside them.

"This is a good sentence." - Good
"This is a bad sentence" - Bad
"This is also a bad sentence". - Bad
-----

First there is the British problem, but leave that aside.

Second, there are some details that you don't mention or that fall outside your rule:

Black, what did you mean when you said, "This is not a good sentence"? ---Good.

Suzy asked, "Can a quotation mark stand in for a period?"--good

 

[TheEarl]

Hi Black,

As to your rule,

[Question:Are quotation marks considered to be equal to a period? (and therefore I don't need a period after a quote). ]


Nu-uh. All sentences must have either a full-stop (period), an exclamation mark or a question mark. When there's quotation marks, the full-stop/exclamation/question mark goes inside them.

"This is a good sentence." - Good
"This is a bad sentence" - Bad
"This is also a bad sentence". - Bad
-----

First there is the British problem, but leave that aside.

Second, there are some details that you don't mention or that fall outside your rule:

Black, what did you mean when you said, "This is not a good sentence"? ---Good.

Suzy asked, "Can a quotation mark stand in for a period?"--good

Pure: It was me who said that. Good point, I hadn't considered your first example in your second point. What's the British problem? I wasn't aware you had a problem with us.

The Earl

 

[BlackShanglan]

The rule on exclamation points and question marks is that they go inside the quotation marks if part of the original quote or dialogue, and otherwise outside. Just generalizing the rule that Pure effectively demonstrated with individual quotations.

Thanks, Earl. I was a little baffled to see what a great deal I had apparently said.

Shanglan

 

[SuzySteve]

I think I'm starting to understand this a bit.
I get that the punctuation marks must appear, but a period is not needed after the quote marks, correct?
-------------------------------------------------

"Hmmm", she slides over to the side of my desk and pulls up a spare chair, "And how is your favorite piece of ass today?", she snickers.
-------------------------------------------------

Does that seem right?

 

[rgraham666]

I think I'm starting to understand this a bit.
I get that the punctuation marks must appear, but a period is not needed after the quote marks, correct?
-------------------------------------------------

"Hmmm", she slides over to the side of my desk and pulls up a spare chair, "And how is your favorite piece of ass today?", she snickers.
-------------------------------------------------

Does that seem right?

I think this would be more correct.

"Hmmm." She slides over to the side of my desk and pulls up a spare chair. "And how is your favorite piece of ass today?" she snickers.

As I read it the "Hmmm." is a standalone sentence. So is the second one. You don't need the comma in the third sentence as the dialogue is already closed by the question.

The comma would be used in this case.

"Hmmm," she said as she slid over to the side of my desk and pulled up a spare chair.

The "Hmmm," in this case is part of the sentence and you use the comma to mark the end of the dialogue.

I'm sure there are proper terms for this. Haven't the slightest idea what they are.

 

[TheEarl]

I think I'm starting to understand this a bit.
I get that the punctuation marks must appear, but a period is not needed after the quote marks, correct?
-------------------------------------------------

"Hmmm", she slides over to the side of my desk and pulls up a spare chair, "And how is your favorite piece of ass today?", she snickers.
-------------------------------------------------

Does that seem right?

Not quite. Look at your bit of dialogue. If it has a question mark or an exclamation mark, then there's no need for a comma. Just use normal punctuation inside the speechmarks.

"And how is your favorite piece of ass today?" she snickers.

If you're putting a 'he said' or 'she said' after the dialogue, then there must be a comma inside the speechmarks.

"Hmmm," she said.

If there's no 'he said', 'they grimaced', 'she muttered', etc then the dialogue should finish with a full-stop/exclamation mark/question mark.

"Hmmm." She slides over to the side of my desk and pulls up a spare chair.

If there are two bits of dialogue separated by an action, then it should be treated as two separate sentences. One contains the first piece of dialogue and the action. The other is just the second piece of dialogue. To take your example (removing all punctuation):

"Hmmm" she slides over to the side of my desk and pulls up a spare chair "And how is your favorite piece of ass today"

This turns into two sentences: "Hmmm" she slides over to the side of my desk and pulls up a spare chair and "And how is your favorite piece of ass today"

"Hmmm." She slides over to the side of my desk and pulls up a spare chair.
"And how is your favorite piece of ass today?"

There are exceptions to many of these rules, but IMHO an amateur author should keep things simple until they have learned the ropes. The easiest way to learn grammar is to practise writing.

Good luck

The Earl

 

[Lauren Hynde]

What's the British problem? I wasn't aware you had a problem with us.

The Earl

In broad strokes, the British rule is that nothing gets inside the quotation marks unless it's part of the quote. The US rule is that all punctuation goes inside the quotation marks:

UK: 'There is no problem', she said.
US: "There is no problem," she said.

However,

UK: 'What's the problem?' she asked.
US: "What's the problem?" she asked.

 

[SuzySteve]

Here's the whole section of the "piece of ass" thing a wrote above.
I just wanna see if any of the comments change based on the entire context of the sentence..

As I continue to go over the papers of my employees, the door opens and I think it's Kim again, but it isn't.
"Hello, brother"
It's my younger sister Marie. She is a real bitch--and I mean that in a good way.
"So how's your little business going?", she says, "Have you changed your mind about what I said?"
Okay, before you get anything in your head, it's not what it sounds like. She is not trying to hit on me--Ewww. Anyway, she's trying to convince me to give her the job of owner--or at least give her a share of it--she is more of a boss than I am, but I don't feel she has the personal touch needed for this group of workers.
"No I haven't, dear sister. I am keeping this job to myself for now"
"Hmmm." She slides over to the side of my desk and pulls up a spare chair, "And how is your favorite piece of ass today?" she snickers.
I give her a confused look.
"C'mon bro!", she says, "what's her name? You know...the redhead chick"
I know where she's going with this by now, "I think you mean Kim", I said getting a bit nervous.
Marie gives me one of her wicked laughs, "Yeah, that's her. So have you two done it yet or what?"
I get up from my chair and put some files away, "No Marie, we have not done it yet. And we never will"
Marie shows a tiny bit of helpfulness to me and follows me to the filing cabinet, "You know she wants you right? I mean what kind of person wears hardly anything to work in the middle of winter without having a car to drive! She takes the damn bus. She always was a great worker now she screws up every day just so she can see you and flaunt her...assests in your face"
As for me, I try to avoid this for several reasons...
"And", Marie continued, "The little tramp wears summer clothes and no bra. Hell, if I were a lesbo, I'd do her"


[forget the indentation thing. Just looking for grammer issues with any marks in the wrong space or what have you...]

 

[BlackShanglan]

In broad strokes, the British rule is that nothing gets inside the quotation marks unless it's part of the quote. The US rule is that all punctuation goes inside the quotation marks:

UK: 'There is no problem', she said.
US: "There is no problem," she said.

However,

UK: 'What's the problem?' she asked.
US: "What's the problem?" she asked.

Hah! Then we've bagged The Earl. He's doing it the US way

Actually the "nothing inside the quotes but what was said" makes much more sense to me. I'm given to understand that we have our early printers to thank for wishing our own rather silly convention on us.

Shanglan

 

[Guest]

"Doing it the US way!" she exclaimed. "Don't we all?"

"Yes, I thought all punctuation always went inside the speech marks," she agreed.

"Why this great divide?" interjected the third voice.

"Fucked if I know."

 

[Lauren Hynde]

"Doing it the US way!" she exclaimed. "Don't we all?"

"I know 'we' do," she agreed.

'But try picking any UK-authored and UK-printed novel and check it for yourself', she added.

 

[inkstain]

In broad strokes, the British rule is that nothing gets inside the quotation marks unless it's part of the quote. The US rule is that all punctuation goes inside the quotation marks:

UK: 'There is no problem', she said.
US: "There is no problem," she said.

However,

UK: 'What's the problem?' she asked.
US: "What's the problem?" she asked.

i'm confused now

im english, and now i can't remember what i normally do, which im sure was alright in the first place. poo.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

i'm confused now

im english, and now i can't remember what i normally do, which im sure was alright in the first place. poo.

It doesn't really matter. Pick a side and stick to it. As long as you're consistent throught the story, you'll be fine.

 

[Guest]

"I know 'we' do," she agreed.

'But try picking any UK-authored and UK-printed novel and check it for yourself', she added.

"I've read plenty of UK-authored and UK-printed novels," she replied. "Well, I would, what with being British and all."

"And, I must add, I have never seen one with dialogue that way."

 

[inkstain]

I just had to go to my story to find out what i do.

firstly, i hardly ever put "he said" or "she said" in. if the reader cant get it from the context, i put in some action before or after it like this:


Gordon stared at the wall opposite. “It’s wrong. I mean I don’t think we should.”


This one's probably a bit more confusing:


“I need a drink.” Malcolm didn’t like the way she said that; like she said it often.


I think that's why i wasn't aware.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

"I've read plenty of UK-authored and UK-printed novels," she replied. "Well, I would, what with being British and all."

"And, I must add, I have never seen one with dialogue that way."

It's not something that people usually pay attention to.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

This one's probably a bit more confusing:


“I need a drink.” Malcolm didn’t like the way she said that; like she said it often.


I think that's why i wasn't aware.

That one I would never do. I don't ever include narration relative to one character in another character's speech tag.


"I need a drink."

Malcolm didn’t like the way she said that; like she said it often.

 

[Guest]

It's not something that people usually pay attention to.

I'm not the usual kind of "people" then, because I do.

Believe me, I have many British publications, by British authors, and they have all the punctuation within the speech marks.

Roald Dahl, Lewis Carroll, James Herbert, JK Rowling, to name but four.

And, yes, they were published in the UK.

Please, tell me some examples, and I'll look it up!

Oh, and, get this! It was the way I was taught to do it in an English Grammar School.

Why is it non-Brits sometimes like to tell us the way we do things, then when we contradict them and say it isn't, they have to argue the point?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

OK, Lou. You're half-right. I looked it up.

The UK rule is varies on whether the quotation is a regular quotation or if it is an indication of speech.

For example:

US:
The show began with a "sneak preview," held at the hotel.
He made his debut singing in "Faust."

UK:
The show began with a "sneak preview", held at the hotel.
He made his debut singing in "Faust".

But if it's dialogue...

US:
"The police," he protested, "have always been fair to me."
"Keep away from me!" she shouted. "I hate you!"

UK:
'The police,' he protested, 'have always been fair to me.'
'Keep away from me!' she shouted. 'I hate you!'


It would be easier to show examples if Amazon.co.uk had that "Look Inside" thing!

 

[inkstain]

That one I would never do. I don't ever include narration relative to one character in another character's speech tag.


"I need a drink."

Malcolm didn’t like the way she said that; like she said it often.

Yes, now I see it that way, it's a lot better.