Quarterly Forum Review--please Check Inside

[KillerMuffin]

Okay, so this is a first review, but I think it's a good policy to have some feedback and suggestions from everyone involved on a regular basis. So please, take a moment to answer a question or two and give any suggestions, comments, or complaints that you may have.

1. Am I taking too long between new stories? I'm trying to get one every two weeks or a few days after the current one dies down.

2. Do you think the requirements are too strict?

3. How could we foster discussion amongst the stories rather than just a big feedback thread--or is this even a concern?

Anything else on your mind?

 

[ronde]

I think the time between stories is probably about right. It sometimes seems long, but as long as the reviews keep coming, the time is very worthwhile. It would be a shame for an author with enough interest in improving to get lost in a crowd of stories, and shortening the time would probably result in such.

The requirements are absolutely not too strict. The few reviews I have done indicate that the participants are serious about their writing. I fear that relaxing the requirements might draw those more interested in exposure than improvement. There are stories on Lit that don't warrant an honest critique simply because the author didn't take the time to check spelling and grammar, and I have no interest in wading through a morass of poor English in order to find something to which I can favorably comment. I'm speaking about narrative here; almost anything can be written in dialogue as long as it's readable and makes some sense. If the story was written by an author writing in other than his native language, this may explain some of the errors, but a serious author would probably ask someone to proof the work before submission.

It would appear that most authors like the critiques as they are, and there is great value in seeing the differing opinions. I think it would be beneficial, especially to beginning writers, to read some constructive debate if two reviewers disagree. It is sometimes difficult to be clear because what may be an absolute for me may be a deadly sin for another, and because writing is a creative art, almost any statement of proper technique or form can be contradicted with numerous examples. In this case, I wonder if the author of the work under review understands or becomes confused.

Sometimes this discussion does take place, and I have learned a lot for my own writing just by reading other reviewer's comments about my comments. I don't know of a good way to encourage this discussion without losing the original intent of this thread, but it would surely be helpful to all writers. I have yet to read a critique offered in anything but a helpful manner, so maybe we can also discuss the critiques in a like manner.

This has become one of my favorite places on Lit because I learn much from those with more writing experience than I, and because the authors who offer their work for critique tend to have talent. Although I disagree with some comments, they do force me to think and research, and that will hopefully make me a better writer. I hope my comments do the same for others.

 

[SexyChele]

1. Am I taking too long between new stories? I'm trying to get one every two weeks or a few days after the current one dies down.

No, I don't think so. As Ronde stated, if the stories are posted too soon then I think they become lost. Also, I've seen stories that have been on this board two weeks or longer, and have noticed people still contributing to the threads. Two weeks is a good rule of thumb, unless you were to see that no one else is participating in the current thread.

2. Do you think the requirements are too strict?

Absolutely not. There is already a board that writers can go to to ask for feedback. If I'm not missing the boat here, this is to be a more indepth look at a particular story, with the author participating. I like the idea that the author has to have contributed and also should be present and available to discuss his/her story. I do not think the restrictions should change.

3. How could we foster discussion amongst the stories rather than just a big feedback thread--or is this even a concern?

You want the stories to initiate discussion with themselves? (I know - my bad! Sorry, couldn't resist!) I seldom respond more than once because I don't want to appear argumentative or that I'm out to pick a fight or something. I have yet to submit a story to the Circle, but it's gotta be tough putting your work out there and know that people will be tearing through it. I know most folks here are honest and sincere in what they see, but it can still be tough. I would like to see more discussion between authors. I've seen it happen on occasion and it was always a pleasure to get involved or just read what others had written. How to initiate? I'm not certain. Maybe with the understanding that basically we are all on equal footing, no body has a bigger or better say than anyone else? And also to encourage the author to respond, to make certain the author understands that the word here isn't final, and they can always add more.

Anything else on your mind?

Just to say I think you're doing a good job of managing this forum, KM. I would like to see more authors participate. But then, I knew I was a bit intimidated at first. Didn't think I would have anything that was worthwhile to say. I'm sure there are others who might feel the same way. I know you've made announcements on the "Feedback" forum, but perhaps something like a "sticky" can be added that writers are encouraged to participate in the "Circle" regardless of what their writing skills are?

 

[ronde]

KM, I humbly apologize for not thanking you in my original reply. I know you are one of the highly underpaid Lit Ladies, and you do a really great job with this board. I really meant to thank you, really, I did.

Thank you, SexyChele for reminding me of my forgetfulness.

 

[Whispersecret]

I think the time period is fine. If you put stories up too quickly, people will get burnt out. We all only have so much time to devote.

The requirements are fine.

I think the discussions have been good. I'm not sure there's a difference between feedback and a discussion, unless it's that feedback might not have specifics and is one-sided. A discussion allows the author to, well, discuss with the critiquer.

The only problem I see is that sometimes I think your questions are leading. Often the participants only address the questions you pose. I almost always see the reason why you ask the questions you ask, but I can't help but think that we might see more diverse commentary if you did it differently.

I think the authors themselves should pose questions, although I realize that some of them have no idea what type of questions to ask.

Perhaps limit your questions to one or two?

Hell, I don't know. Maybe your questions are necessary to get the discussion going. This is just something I noticed.

You know I love you, KM, and I admire your dedication.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Whoa, back the truck up. This isn't a "Yay Muffie!" thread. We can do that on the GB so a good fight can get started. I know you guys adore me, otherwise someone would be volunteering to do the job! This is just to make sure that the forum is doing what the average visitor here wants it to do and that I'm on the same page that everyone else is on in regards to how the forum is run.

This place is growing, slowly, but still growing. I just want to be sure it's done smoothly, harmoniously, and that anyone who has a complaint has a place where they can be heard and it can be addressed. I don't think that I actually run this board so much as I just facilitate it. I make sure stories get put up semi-regularly according to the rules and that other threads find their way to the appropriate forum.

Everything else that happens is pretty much a group effort.

Whisper--duly noted. I was wondering about that myself. Perhaps asking the questions after some feedback has been given? That way there won't be any predisposed notions when people read the story and give feedback.

I was also thinking about selecting stories out of the lists once in a while and discussing them based on content, not critique. Like Laurel did with Dafney DeWit's Seven Rings oh so long ago. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Whispersecret]

I was also thinking about selecting stories out of the lists once in a while and discussing them based on content, not critique. Like Laurel did with Dafney DeWit's Seven Rings oh so long ago. Any thoughts on this?

My only problem with that (if you can call it a problem) is that the author might not necessarily give a shit about what we say, and it seems a shame to put forth all that effort to "no use." Sure, we as the critiquers are bound to gain something from the discussion, but, wouldn't it be a better use of time to have both sides of the equation benefit?

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

1. Am I taking too long between new stories? No

2. Do you think the requirements are too strict? No

3. How could we foster discussion amongst the stories
a. E-mail those about to have their stories posted, (as Mickie did) so they can discuss their stories at the beginning of the thread.
b. Encourage both those giving and receiving critiques to make comments and ask questions.
c. Whenever possible, post new stories on a semi-regular bases.
d. You might make a short, closing comment prior to posting a new story about both the last story and its critiques. Critiques of critiques can be very helpful.

Anything else on your mind? No, except I appreciate your having volunteered to take over this task.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[SexyChele]

Is this a "yay Muffie" thread? Didn't mean it to come across that way - just have a lot of respect for you from what I've seen on all the forums, and wanted to acknowledge your work here.

That said....

I hadn't thought about it until WhisperSecret brought it up, but I'm inclined to agree. I do find the "Muffie Questions" challenging sometimes because I feel I know so little. But, yes, sometimes when I read the questions posed, it sort of sets me up for the story. Examples would be use of paragraphing, length of story. When I read the questions, and then read the story, I find myself specifically looking for those things. And that might be a good thing, but also it might not be completely fair to the writer.

Since the stories are posted here about once every two weeks, maybe it might be beneficial to just post the writer's request first, get some feedback/discussion, then after about a week, pose more questions. This way, you might see what most of those critiquing the story are seeing and you can ask about that. Or maybe there is some element in style that most are missing and it can be brought to the forefront.

This might also stimulate ongoing discussion - giving feedback and discussing with the author the first week, then coming back the second week and seeing if there were anymore observations made.

Of course, this is only my .02 worth - and that's probably all it's worth!

 

[abashed-dreamer]

Hi KM

>1. Am I taking too long between new stories? I'm trying to get one every two weeks or a few days after the current one dies down.

Two weeks seems good, for now


>2. Do you think the requirements are too strict?

For a story to be posted its writer should have posted at least one previous critique. Sounds right.

>3. How could we foster discussion amongst the stories rather than just a big feedback thread--or is this even a concern?

Not sure what you mean; you want authors to talk amongst themselves.? They are, privately, and there is another forum. But perhaps some issues like use of first person could be put up for discussion.

Other thoughts. Yes, the questions do seem 'leading', what you consider to be problems is pretty clear. This agenda tends to pre empt others. Sometimes it would be interesting to see what strikes each commenter as key issues. I do, however, see a use for a small number (3-4) of questions, *provided that the answer you (KM) have cannot be discerned.*

I also think the 'story' issues should be mentioned, not just mechanics. What makes a story alive, or memorable, or fresh; what makes a character stick in mind till at least the next day (as more than an automaton driven by lust). Is there any tension or conflict or surprise?

Overall you're doing a good job, imo.

Jack

 

[TheEarl]

First of all thanks to KM for this board. Just wanted to add my two cents about discussion. I only ever post once as I give my opinion on the story and am unlikely to be able to add more apart from aping other people's comments. Maybe encourage authors to reply to the posts; I tried to reply to everything said about my story when it was discussed.

The Earl

 

[cherrylips_au]

Ok as I'm involved on an irregular basis I hope it's ok to add my comments.

I think the space between new stories is about right, it's hard I guess to gauge how much attention each story will recieve. As they are still able to be accessed for about a month after they are posted it allows others to comment if they have been held up due to other commitments.

I think the requirements are fine as otherwise the forum could be bombarded with people just looking for criticism and feedback without giving anything back, the way it is enables us to help others as we are helped. (Well I hope it works like that).

Discussion verses feedback. I think it depends on how the author of the story feels, some may be just happy to read the feedback others wanting to know how to change things and why. Discussion can be good as it's refreshing to see different points of views.

I know from my experience on here my story created a bit of discussion but I would have liked things explained more as I'm still learning as I go. I felt too intimated to respond and ask the questions I needed to, I have since gone looking for the answers to some of the comments I didn't quite understand so it was helpful in that way.

One thing that seems to be unhelpful is when someone says they couldn't read the story due to so many problems with it, then still comment about the story. If you can't read it or are not interested in it then don't comment on it.
I did think this was a forum to discuss the stories whatever the standard of writting. How are people to improve if they are not guided to their possible mistakes? I did say 'possible' as it's been shown sometimes there are a variety of opinions shared here.

Ok they are just my thoughts on the subject.

I would like to thank KillerMuffin for all the work she puts into this forum to keep it running also all the people that contribute as I hopefully have learnt from the comments on here in regards to improving writing techniques.

 

[Ray Dario]

1. Am I taking too long between new stories? I'm trying to get one every two weeks or a few days after the current one dies down.

Nope, in fact I've been late getting to some cause they came faster than I expected. Also because I'm busy right now with outside projects.

2. Do you think the requirements are too strict?

Nope, requirements seem just right.

3. How could we foster discussion amongst the stories rather than just a big feedback thread--or is this even a concern?

The only thing I can think of would be for you and a few others who have been around to get in there and start discussing. Sometimes I have felt like the critiques fall into a black hole. I would love to have someone come back and tell me what a friggin' moron I was or why my opinion was stupid. Just please be ready to back up your words with reasons. As most probably know, I rarely back down from a good mud-slinging session, but it would be nice to keep it friendly here and yet not be afraid of challenging what people say.

Anything else on your mind?

Oh hell there's lots on my mind, but not much pertaining to the this thread.

Oh yeah, Yay Muffie!

Ray