PYLs: If an act of Switching would cause your pyl a LOT of emotional distress,

[snowy ciara]

would you still require it?

Okay guys, I'm trying to avoid hijacking Etoile's thread about switching for service. Since I'm sort of re-directing this to the PYL's I thought a new thread was in order.

Here's my response to her initial question:

"I don't know, Etoile. (If I could switch as part of my service to a PYL.)

The thought makes my stomach turn over uncomfortably, but I would try it if I was ordered too. I know that if I could get around my initial discomfort, I'm creative and tough enough and well, fierce enough to give a masochist a wild time, but there's that line that seems so hard to cross. It's more than a line, really, it's like a chasm between the way I am and the way a PYL would presumably want me to be if I was topping.

I'm afraid too, that I'll like it too much. Also, it would be a monstrously huge change for me. (Especially if I liked it that much!) Change scares me most of the time in a not got way. Ergo the tailspin I went into when I not only switched Universities for a year, I up and went to a new country besides. I wouldn't want to do January and February over again at all!"

So, I guess my question to the PYL's, how far do you dare go when you make a request like this? Some of you know that the changes I went through this spring resulted in panic/anxiety attacks, medication for the same, insomnia, nightmares and some other nasty things. I am not saying that requiring me to switch to please you would result in the same emotional response, but if it did, would you still require it? Is there any act of service worth a like amount of distress? Is there a point where YOU (the PYL) would code because the level emotional distress was too high?

 

[catalina_francisco]

In our instance it didn't stop him and believe me, there was a period of time when I told him (lol, that is the polite way of putting it) it would seriously push me past what I thought I could handle at the time or ever. I guess if he really felt it was a good judgement call to back off he might, perhaps working toward making it possible for a future time, but he had his reasons to push it and it didn't kill me but benefited me in ways I didn't have the insight to see before it happened and which he did not feel was good to go into explanations of until afterward. It was one of those circumstances where despite the pyl's thoughts at the time, the PYL knew more than the pyl what was good for them, and why.

Catalina

 

[snowy ciara]

If I recall correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), Don Francisco was there manning the camera for your Adventures in Topland. Would he (or You, if he decides to pop in) have safeworded or otherwise stopped the scene if you'd had an issue? Terribly nosey today, aren't I?

 

[catalina_francisco]

If I recall correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), Don Francisco was there manning the camera for your Adventures in Topland. Would he (or You, if he decides to pop in) have safeworded or otherwise stopped the scene if you'd had an issue? Terribly nosey today, aren't I?

LOL, I did most of the pic work in between working hard....he relaxed and watched..oh and took care of the more complicated bondage work because of a time limit we had. I think once I realised he wasn't going to back down on it and seriously decided it was up to me to get my head in the right place, I knew it was about submitting and there was not going to be a point I would seriously want to stop it all and risk displeasing. When the opportunity arose, I did communicate throughout when I felt out of my depth or was concerned about something, or just how I felt about it all and he was very supportive and encouraging which went a big way toward making it manageable and even fun. I am sure if he saw me losing control and risking the sub though he would have stepped in quickly to avoid harm to someone.

Catalina

 

[Betticus]

would you still require it?

Okay guys, I'm trying to avoid hijacking Etoile's thread about switching for service. Since I'm sort of re-directing this to the PYL's I thought a new thread was in order.

Here's my response to her initial question:

"I don't know, Etoile. (If I could switch as part of my service to a PYL.)

The thought makes my stomach turn over uncomfortably, but I would try it if I was ordered too. I know that if I could get around my initial discomfort, I'm creative and tough enough and well, fierce enough to give a masochist a wild time, but there's that line that seems so hard to cross. It's more than a line, really, it's like a chasm between the way I am and the way a PYL would presumably want me to be if I was topping.

I'm afraid too, that I'll like it too much. Also, it would be a monstrously huge change for me. (Especially if I liked it that much!) Change scares me most of the time in a not got way. Ergo the tailspin I went into when I not only switched Universities for a year, I up and went to a new country besides. I wouldn't want to do January and February over again at all!"

So, I guess my question to the PYL's, how far do you dare go when you make a request like this? Some of you know that the changes I went through this spring resulted in panic/anxiety attacks, medication for the same, insomnia, nightmares and some other nasty things. I am not saying that requiring me to switch to please you would result in the same emotional response, but if it did, would you still require it? Is there any act of service worth a like amount of distress? Is there a point where YOU (the PYL) would code because the level emotional distress was too high?

Well, I do enjoy being on the bottom. As in having her on top fucking me but I don't consider that to be switching. This whole subspace thing is something I only understand from and intellectual point of view and haven't ever felt.

Sometimes you just want to lie there completely relaxed and let her use her body and talents on you. It's just so damn nice.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Well, I do enjoy being on the bottom. As in having her on top fucking me but I don't consider that to be switching. This whole subspace thing is something I only understand from and intellectual point of view and haven't ever felt.

Sometimes you just want to lie there completely relaxed and let her use her body and talents on you. It's just so damn nice.

LOL, now this is an interesting point you have raised, and one I admit I have found difficult to understand the POV of many subs in relation to sexual interaction with their Dominant. There seems to be this popular view that being submissive means laying there and being taken....many mention how they just cannot instigate sex or be proactive in any way. My take on it differs in that even in vanilla times I was always determined to provide my partner with maximum pleasure and found that meant giving and doing, and through that I also found pleasure. As a submissive I see it as even more important and very submissive to be able to serve your Dominant sexually, give pleasure in a variety of ways, and often have them just lay there while you give it all you've got. It confuses me that many have this passive POV when OTOH they feel a big part of their submission is tied into sexual service....how can it be service if the Dominant has to do all or most of the work 95 - 100% of the time?

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I wouldn't do anything that I thought would certainly instill panic/anxiety/depression in someone who struggles with those demons....it's bad enough when they rear up as a surprise.

If it's just "this is so not me" I'd make them tough it out. If they think they'll "like it too much" well, I hate to scare you, snowy, but that alone tells me something kinda profound and interesting. Not all change has to be quantuum, it can well take years, but if you are afraid of liking something too much, it kind of says to me maybe that's something you are meant to do at some point.

I am also NOT one of those who subscribe to the "never let them see you bottom" school of thought, though. If my sub can't respect me after seeing me bottom I want nothing to do with them, frankly, and as harsh as that may sound. You get the whole package with me, not some edited for your wanking fantasy version. I'd feel very topped from below if someone was going to have an emotional breakdown because they saw me get suspended in ropes.

 

[graceanne]

LOL, now this is an interesting point you have raised, and one I admit I have found difficult to understand the POV of many subs in relation to sexual interaction with their Dominant. There seems to be this popular view that being submissive means laying there and being taken....many mention how they just cannot instigate sex or be proactive in any way. My take on it differs in that even in vanilla times I was always determined to provide my partner with maximum pleasure and found that meant giving and doing, and through that I also found pleasure. As a submissive I see it as even more important and very submissive to be able to serve your Dominant sexually, give pleasure in a variety of ways, and often have them just lay there while you give it all you've got. It confuses me that many have this passive POV when OTOH they feel a big part of their submission is tied into sexual service....how can it be service if the Dominant has to do all or most of the work 95 - 100% of the time?

Catalina

Ok, I can't instigate sex, but during sex I do my share, and sometimes more. I get on top, I give blow jobs, etc. I agree that if I just lay there and let him do the work that it's not submission. Beyond that I think it's selfish.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ok, I can't instigate sex, but during sex I do my share, and sometimes more. I get on top, I give blow jobs, etc. I agree that if I just lay there and let him do the work that it's not submission. Beyond that I think it's selfish.

LOL, it is amazing the amount of sub/slaves who do not think like you graceanne....there seems to be many who think that just the fact they spread their legs should be enough to satisfy any man. For that matter, I am finding some of the male subs also have this passive idea of what submission is all about too. They don't know what they are missing out on.

Catalina

 

[snowy ciara]

If they think they'll "like it too much" well, I hate to scare you, snowy, but that alone tells me something kinda profound and interesting. Not all change has to be quantuum, it can well take years, but if you are afraid of liking something too much, it kind of says to me maybe that's something you are meant to do at some point.

I should have gone into more detail I guess...

I had an issue with topping someone when I tried it. ( I don't even dream that I'm Dominant enough in way to be any good at the mental emotional aspects of bdsm.) I couldn't get past the the fact that it felt so wrong that I wanted to hurl until I thought of the Evil Ex. I didn't try for that imagery, but the bottom sneered and laughed at my lack of ability and I got this image in my head that he WAS the Evil Ex and I wanted him to die. Then this whole weird emotional/mental flashback thing happened and I wanted to kill him and I couldn't tell the difference between the two men. I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm never ever going to switch because that'd be stupid and under the right circumstances I might be able to pull it off. I'm chilled in a not good way that I'm still that hungry for revenge and I will not ever pick up an implement of destruction and look for a male victim again until I'm able to handle that residual anger. I won't become one of those "Dommes" who uses her victims to satisify a personal anger with the penised ones. And since women don't inspire any Dominant energy in me at all, that means that switching is highly unlikely for me at this time.

I hope I'm making sense here.

Since my (rare) sadistic moods come from a vengeful emotional spot, I don't think it's appropriate to indulge them When it comes to Dominant energy, I just feel it. I may be a decent top someday, but it's not very likely and I don't really expect it.

As an aside, this was the incident that killed my fledgeling relationship in April/May of this year. The Domme with whom I was tentively starting to talk to about getting, er "closer" had issues with the incident and she didn't feel she could work around it. Or with it.

 

[Private_Label]

.... I wanted to hurl until I thought of the Evil Ex.

... I won't become one of those "Dommes" who uses her victims to satisify a personal anger with the penised ones. And since women don't inspire any Dominate energy in me at all, that means that switching is highly unlikely for me at this time.

I hope I'm making sense here.

Perfectly. When you Domme you want to be in control of yourself as much as in control of the situation and the submissive. That is an admirable quality.

As an aside, this was the incident that killed my fledgeling relationship in April/May of this year. The Domme with whom I was tentively starting to talk to about getting, er "closer" had issues with the incident and she didn't feel she could work around it. Or with it.

((hugs))

 

[Rubyb]

Snowy,

You made a lot of sense. Huge amounts of sense. It's a be-itch when your in the middle of doing something, anything, then you or someone else presses the invisible emotional trigger. Ahhhhh! Grrrr!

It sounds like you done lots of thinking about the incident and are setting yourself up for success in the future.

If you don't want to top, don't.
If you want to try being a sensous top, not with instruments of pain, but with instruments of pleasure, it might be more your style. It is mine.

My sub doesn't like hard pain and I don't like to hurt him. That doesn't mean we don't play a bit rough, but if neither one of us is satisfied doing something we skip it.

I hope you can find a partner that will understand your triggers and not push you into those crappy head spaces.

Long distance hugs and many good blessings to you.

 

[Netzach]

I should have gone into more detail I guess...

Totally understandable not wanting to go there again. May not be productive ever, probably not productive for a long time to come.

Also very shitty to have a sneery bottom, whether you are liable to flash back or not, your first time out. That's not called for even if you are totally suck ass at topping in every way. I would have lost all confidence and I didn't have flashback issues on top of that, had my first bottom pointed out that I was lackluster in some way, though I am sure I was.

And I'm sorry this freaked your potential out...she's going to have a hard time finding someone who never has incidents, whether flashing back, passing out, or falling apart, at any point, while bottoming.

 

[snowy ciara]

First off, thank you Ladies, for the tlc and the understanding. Second off, I can't believe my spell-checker tripped on the old Dominant/Dominate thing and I didn't catch it and let it swap 'em. I guess I was thinking too hard when I posted.

Hopefully, the new potential (aka the Leather Lady) will work out better than the last one did. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Etoile]

Thank you very much for starting this companion thread, ciara.

 

[snowy ciara]

You're very welcome. I know I hijack a lot over on the cafe side, but I do try to be good over here. Honest I do.