Punishments and safewords

[trojan_man_co]

Yep. I'd rather say, "Could you give me a minute?" than to say the magic word and stop it altogether. Not that it matters; I don't have one, anyway.

Thats why i use stop light colors for mine...


Green = every thing is fine
Yellow = slow down and or i need a moment before i can continue
Red= Stop everything


Edit: i guess this is why you should read all the way through a thread before you comment....

 

[graceanne]

Admittedly, the taking it and hitting them back has crossed my mind. As has taking the toy very pointed packing it back in the toy bag before telling them "You're not allowed to play with that anymore tonight..."

*snort*

OMG ROFL!

I'm sure I've said this, but I don't use a safe word, mostly cause I'm a 'call a rake a rake' kind of person and if I say 'OW! STOP IT!' I mean STOP IT, not 'ooh, do that some more'.

As for punishments, I'd say it depends. In a long term relationship where the top knows the sub, no I don't think you need a safe word. Either your top knows your limits and can respect them or knows your limits, doesn't always respect them, and you're okay with that (or you'd have left him/her by now). And of course there are some TPE's (like OSG's for example) where safe words aren't even an option.

In a newer relationship, eh. I can kinda see why a bottom would want one. I was married to my top for quite awhile before we went totally D/s so I haven't been there.

 

[Soumis]

I think safewords have a place in punishment. After all, as it was said earlier in the thread, if it can't be respected all the time than how can you count on it being respected when it matters?

That being said, I do prefer plain English, but I always have a safeword "on the books," so to speak. I'm one of those people that can look for all intents and purposes like I'm at my last straw when really all I need is one more whack to push me over the happy edge. Also, every once in a while I get into a headspace where "no" comes out a lot easier than, "yes please I'd like some more." I think it's important both for me and the PYL that there is a specific safeword in place for such occasions.

I think safewords can be of equal importance in both a casual and long term relationship. With the former, we're more likely to accidentally stumble upon a limit out of mutual ignorance (no matter how well prepared). With the latter, we're more likely to actually be trying to test a limit, to find a new level.

Second thought: Safewords are also handy when trying new things. Sure (insert new toy/activity here) sounds great, but if it turns out to be a new hard limit, a safeword can be a nice way to say, "OMG I hate this!"

 

[rida]

This question was posted on another site and quickly digressed into not a discussion. And since it has been brought up in the (far) periphery of a recent personal experience, it seems like a good time for an actual discussion on it.

The question is this: During the course of a punishment/disciplinary action (not a funishment or play discipline) should the pyl have the option of safe wording and should it be respected?

I'd say that if the relationship has a safeword, is should be always available, whether it is funishment or punishment. The safeword is there for a reason, and I'd like to think that if the relationship is such that punishments are dolled out, the relationship is also such that using your safeword just to wiggle out of punishment should not be an issue. (I agree that if the PYL is worried that the pyl would do such a thing, there are bigger issues that need to be discussed before the "safeword yes or no").

With Hubby, I have a safeword (standard stop light system) but mostly I use plain English. In spite of the fact that we are married and have been together for so long, we both prefer having a safeword. It has nothing to do with knowing each other's limit, rather with comfort level in play. And not because we do resistance play or any extreme edge play either. For me it is simply because due to the nature of our relationship, the scene can easily get emotionally loaded (on both ends) and I might need a way out when I don't know how to explain what is going on.

With the Sadist, I don't have a safeword anymore (it used to be the stop light system), but I still use plain English to get thing fixed if they need to. I cannot however stop what's happening short of walking away. And we are both fine with that. (He has proved to me to be not only trustworthy but also very good at reading me many times before he even suggested the no safeword arrangement).

 

[2likis2luv]

I've been in a situation where I was tied to the bedposts and the woman's ass was suffocating me. I had to bite her gently and when she lifted I told her she had to let me come up for air and that I'd nod my head when she needed to stop ginding.

 

[2likis2luv]

I've been in a situation where I was tied to the bedposts and the woman's ass was suffocating me. I had to bite her gently and when she lifted I told her she had to let me come up for air and that I'd nod my head when she needed to stop grinding.

 

[chy_girl]

*snort*

OMG ROFL!

I'm sure I've said this, but I don't use a safe word, mostly cause I'm a 'call a rake a rake' kind of person and if I say 'OW! STOP IT!' I mean STOP IT, not 'ooh, do that some more'.

See, and for me "Owww! Fuuckeeerrrrr!" usually translates to "WTF?!? That was a little mean... Again?"

...Which might also explain why they don't hear "Dude. That hurts..." as "Ow! Bloody fucker, knock it off!!"

So perhaps there is something to the whole 'communication work' thing...

 

[chy_girl]

I may have just realized why I don't fit in with the public "scene," LOL.

*looks innocent*

Really? How come?

*bats eyelashes*

 

[DVS]

I've had people do that on me and ABSOLUTELY insist that this means press on. I've had people look to all the external world like a freakout and just be hitting the happy place.

I agree. Some people NEED that helpless feeling to get to the happy place they seek. If they were to dwell on the fact that they are in control and with just one word the pain will stop, that happy place isn't within reach in their mind. They need to experience the out of control feeling to pass over that last threshold.

Of course, they know the safe word is there, but that's the last thing they want. They want to reach that threshold and so for that short period in time, there's a constant battle within their head over pain tolerance, safety and the desire for sexual satisfaction. The most critical time is at that moment in time when their mind is racing and their heart is beating and the pain is intense and they know that happy place is within reach. So, some will create their own little frenzy within themselves to help reach that threshold.

Yes, there are times when they may have come close to using the safe word but didn't. In hind sight, it often wasn't necessary. It was just the intensity of the moment that caused their own personal "flight response" to be triggered. In a long term relationship, or with a very trusted partner, these "flight responses" are minimal. It's in the new relationships that they are more common and maybe more real than not.

 

[sb2009]

This is interesting for me. Mainly because in the case of any sort of punishment, either we aren't there yet LOL OR we have a different thing going on that I don't have a name for

....when there are issues that need to be talked about (I"ll pick something mundane so I don't spill all our dirty undies here) it doesn't get dealt with physically. We had a bid discussion about the kids and how I am not doing my best to help them learn to pick up after themselves. 1. I do majority of child stuff becuase he's just not here most of the day and 2. the housework is *generally* my job so it's making my life more difficult by them being little piggies. (snort snort). So we had a fairly serious discussion and after my typical emotional reactions to criticsm, blah blah blah...we came up with a plan to improve this area. Physical punishment would have had no effect on it.

However...i do get pinches and slaps on my ass if I'm being a total bitch and that usually brings me around ROFL but I also say "fuck, that hurt, you fucker!" and he says "Well, stop being a bitch then."

I think that for me, a physical type consequence to anything that was a real issue in our relationship wouldn't help much. So for me it's still all about "funishment" and "make me hahaha" so I can get tackled, etc.

We also don't do safewords, but "ow" "stop" "leg is asleep" and he will often ask "do you need a break?" etc.

 

[fuckmeat]

funishment

Great word. I shall add it to my vocabulary forthwith.

 

[JMohegan]

One of the arguments made on the other site (shortly before it descended into the land of "You're a poopy-head!... No you are!") was that a pyl shouldn't be able to safe-word out of a punishment because it's a disciplinary action brought on by the pyl's own action or inaction and it's the PYL's responsibility to provide the appropriate incentive to not do it again.

My theory is that when if anything gets to a spot where I voluntarily safe-word it needs to be listened to. And that means the emotional pain of the punishment as well as the physical.

But the argument was also brought up about pyl's who safe-word way to soon on everything and the pyl's who would safe-word simply to be done with the punishment.

I'm just curious about what perspective others see this from since the realm of punishment is new to me in practice.

That argument asserts that since the s can't be trusted to act in good faith, the D should take the legally and ethically dubious step of ignoring a revocation of consent.

My question is: why would any self-respecting D sustain a relationship with that type of s?

 

[CutieMouse]

I do not understand punishment. To the point that when casually dating, the kinky sorts of men would bring the subject up and I'd tell them I don't get punished. Which isn't to say I'm perfect; it simply means I don't get punished, because [for me] I don't believe in a punishment model between mature, consenting, responsible adults.

If I screw up, we talk about it. If he screws up, we talk about it.

If something has blown up or devolved so badly that a partner feels I need a physical punishment - I think we would have a much larger issue than "should you have a safe word or not" on our hands.

 

[FloggingMolly]

No, if it was a new relationship, there'd definately be a safeword for punishment as well. However, I never had to do that as we've had 10 years to get to know each other before we started this

But, thanks to this discussion, we are giving some thoughts to a two-word system, so thank you

 

[DVS]

I do not understand punishment. To the point that when casually dating, the kinky sorts of men would bring the subject up and I'd tell them I don't get punished. Which isn't to say I'm perfect; it simply means I don't get punished, because [for me] I don't believe in a punishment model between mature, consenting, responsible adults.

If I screw up, we talk about it. If he screws up, we talk about it.

If something has blown up or devolved so badly that a partner feels I need a physical punishment - I think we would have a much larger issue than "should you have a safe word or not" on our hands.

I'm the same way. Although I use the word in scenes, it's just my way of getting to do what I like to do...use a whip, flogger, cane, paddle, etc. on a naked female behind.

As for punishment in a BDSM relationship, I don't understand it, but I know I'm in the minority. I see my submissive as an adult and as such, we communicate as adults. I don't consider myself above her in any way other than in a sexually dominating way. In fact, she's in charge of what I'm allowed to do to her.

And to clarify this a little more, I don't consider myself a Dom in any way other than my sex life. So maybe some see my version of BDSM as a form of play, when others see theirs very much as a lifestyle. I'm fine with that, if that's how others see me. And I'm not trying to judge or change anything.

Just because I'm the way I am, that doesn't mean I think what others do isn't right. Whatever consenting adults prefer in their sex lives is fine with me. I just don't see punishment as a way of correction in my BDSM relationships. I guess I'm more into funishment, if I understand that new term correctly.

No, I'm not in a full time, real life relationship at the moment. But that wouldn't change my opinion. And I've never cared for labels such as Dom, Master, slave or submissive. Labels are too restrictive, or at least bring assumptions from people that might not be true. I guess I just do my own thing and enjoy it, just like the rest of you do.

Sorry, if this wasn't the place for this little rant. To get things back onto subject, I still stand by my previous post that I think safe words are a good thing. No matter what the level of your relationship, it's always good to have a fail safe. Whether it's what some refer to as serious punishment or the more scene oriented funishment, it's just good common sense to have a back up plan.

 

[Netzach]

I do not understand punishment. To the point that when casually dating, the kinky sorts of men would bring the subject up and I'd tell them I don't get punished. Which isn't to say I'm perfect; it simply means I don't get punished, because [for me] I don't believe in a punishment model between mature, consenting, responsible adults.

If I screw up, we talk about it. If he screws up, we talk about it.

If something has blown up or devolved so badly that a partner feels I need a physical punishment - I think we would have a much larger issue than "should you have a safe word or not" on our hands.

I run my serious relationships like this, too. I have played with friends who asked me to punish them for some infraction in their own heads or who wanted me to help regulate their behavior in some way - I'm actually much more comfortable with that OUTSIDE the confines of a romantic relationship, where I've always found these ideas to be accompanied by complicating drama.

If I'm finding ongoing resistance to any and all of my desires, I simply question the validity of the relationship - and I don't even mean that from the "I'm a Domme" position but from the "how I'm entitled to be treated" one.

 

[Etoile]

Is it? That's not been my experience. There's usually a frantic quality to the voice and movements when one really means stop that's not present otherwise. At least with the people I've played with.

I'm with Netzach on this; I have been squealing and crying and flailing and absolutely frantic and I still didn't mean that it should stop. I was in terror and pain and I needed to express that, but it wasn't so severe I couldn't handle it - as long as I had that outlet.

 

[Netzach]

I agree. Some people NEED that helpless feeling to get to the happy place they seek. If they were to dwell on the fact that they are in control and with just one word the pain will stop, that happy place isn't within reach in their mind. They need to experience the out of control feeling to pass over that last threshold.

Of course, they know the safe word is there, but that's the last thing they want. They want to reach that threshold and so for that short period in time, there's a constant battle within their head over pain tolerance, safety and the desire for sexual satisfaction. The most critical time is at that moment in time when their mind is racing and their heart is beating and the pain is intense and they know that happy place is within reach. So, some will create their own little frenzy within themselves to help reach that threshold.

Yes, there are times when they may have come close to using the safe word but didn't. In hind sight, it often it wasn't necessary. It was just the intensity of the moment that caused their own personal "flight response" to be triggered. In a long term relationship, or with a very trusted partner, these "flight responses" are minimal. It's in the new relationships that they are more common and maybe more real than not.

They're also a really compelling *high* for people, those flight responses. It's slamming those adrenal glands. I dunno, as a Top I really can't see WHY anyone would get off on that.

 

[DVS]

They're also a really compelling *high* for people, those flight responses. It's slamming those adrenal glands. I dunno, as a Top I really can't see WHY anyone would get off on that.

I'm with you on that. Strange people, those, but in a good way.

It's sure nice to be on the Top side of the deal, when with someone like that. It's a nice high for me. It really makes the scene fun. I think that's one reason I enjoy bondage so much. It heightens that flight response. Scenes like that are very sexy. And the bottom can often be quite drained, emotionally.

 

[Netzach]

I'm with you on that. Strange people, those, but in a good way.

It's sure nice to be on the Top side of the deal, when with someone like that. It's a nice high for me. It really makes the scene fun. I think that's one reason I enjoy bondage so much. It heightens that flight response. Scenes like that are very sexy. And the bottom can often be quite drained, emotionally.

Heh. I don't know about you, but I always finish up a scene in which I work someone else pretty hard or I'm just in the right mindset with my heart rate up, ravenous for food, and ready to take on the Persians at Thermopylae pass. I think the adrenal gland is everyone's sexy friend.

 

[DVS]

Heh. I don't know about you, but I always finish up a scene in which I work someone else pretty hard or I'm just in the right mindset with my heart rate up, ravenous for food, and ready to take on the Persians at Thermopylae pass. I think the adrenal gland is everyone's sexy friend.

LOL, true.

 

[SlaveNano]

I don't have a safeword and I prefer not to have one. For me it is about giving up control to somebody, and trusting in them. I trust my domme to take me where she wants and know how far to go. Safewords, especially the use of the traffic light code, are about trying to take control back. There are circumstances where as a sub you can be so far out of it (or into it I guess) that you are not in the best position to make the judgement and other situations where you can simply say 'I've got cramp' or whatever. The risk is that you play to your safeword rather than surrender control, which for me is the whole point.

I am not convinced that they are always safe either. It is possible to set the safeword up as a kind of challenge or badge of honour. If your domme/dom is waiting for you to use a safeword rather than exercising her/his judgement of a situation then I actually think that's more dangerous than not having a safeword at all as you might be in a state of mind to push yourself further than you should.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I do not understand punishment. To the point that when casually dating, the kinky sorts of men would bring the subject up and I'd tell them I don't get punished. Which isn't to say I'm perfect; it simply means I don't get punished, because [for me] I don't believe in a punishment model between mature, consenting, responsible adults.

If I screw up, we talk about it. If he screws up, we talk about it.

If something has blown up or devolved so badly that a partner feels I need a physical punishment - I think we would have a much larger issue than "should you have a safe word or not" on our hands.

We have the talk as well. But we do also include the physical side as a punishment, to release the last of any pent up emotion for both of us.

But, I do think that if you have safewords in play, then they should be applicable during a punishment. It's not like you can suddenly withstand a higher degree of pain or whatever, just because of the situation.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Way back at the beginning of our relationship we set up safe-words. It made me feel more comfortable because I had read that it was something I should do.

Reality is that I have never used them. I think at one point I may have called a Yellow but i don't think I actually said Yellow...

But back on topic, in 5 years I have only been physically punished once. Other times there has been an element of "funishment" within the punishment so I won't count that.

The one and only time it never occurred to me to use my safe word. It was quick, it was painful and it served it's purpose more because of the knowledge that I had made him reach the point where he thought it was necessary than the pain part of it.

It wasn't a punishment for what I did, it was more for my complete unyielding stubbornness. We had been talking about the issue for months.

Safe words are for safety. There should always be respected no matter what the situation. However, they shouldn't be used unless it is a real urgent situation.

 

[Primalex]

I don't believe in a punishment model between mature, consenting, responsible adults.

I don't believe in mature, consenting, responsible adults.