Punishment vs. Discipline

[bisarah]

to me it seems that discipline is not necessarily physical, but punishment is. discipline can be something as simple as a glance, a touch, or a nod to show me, the submissive, how to be a better or more pleasing to the Master or Mistress. sometimes it is fun to be a little bad or clumsy and receive punishment!

 

[P. B. Walker]

*bump*

 

[SierraMoon]

i agree with the ideas others have as to the differences between discipline and punishment.

i am to give my Dom reports each day, as to what i'm doing, eating, and my exercises... i failed to give him one the other day, and was punished for it.. made to sit staring at the wall for 20 minutes.. that was a long time, sitting there by myself, and gave me a lot of time to think about why i hadn't done what was asked of me.. and i know that i will not forget to do my reports again... i didn't like feeling like a child, alone in my room.

A form of discipline that i am dealing with, is my potty mouth. i am allowed to use certain swear words, but i have always had a loose mouth when it came to swearing. Each swear word that i use, gets me a clothespin applied to my tongue, for a minute... if i use 10 swear words during the day, i must apply 10 clothespins for 10 minutes. i see this as a discipline, and not as a punishment, because it is helping me to learn to be more of a lady for him. In the 3 weeks or so since this has been given to me, i have only needed to apply 5 clothespins, total. It has helped me become more aware of what i'm saying, and i am able to rethink, and use different words.

So far, i believe both punishment and discipline have been very effective for me. They are helping me to become a better person for him.

i guess i view discipline as a softer form of punishment.. and, i know that if i am "disciplined" for the same thing more than once, i should expect to be "punished" for not remembering to correct my behavior.

hope all my rambling has made some sense....

 

[artful]

Punishment -VS- Discipline

This has always been a great topic for discussion. As new people arrive to the discussion,...they bring new insights and opinions.

To me it is all semantics, (depends on ones viewpoint). Specifically relating to BDSM, you have the subs viewpoint to consider,...and the Dom/mes side of it. Either of which,...can at any given time, view an action as punishment or discipline.

What may be seen as punishment, may not be given as such,...it might only be an effort at discipline, (and vice-versus).

I think the key lies in submitting to an authority that a sub TRUSTS,..all actions are taken with the welfare of the sub in mind,...and,...to help the sub to please their Dom/me more expertly.

Of course,...this must be done with our keeping in mind,...the sub TRULY wishes to please their Dom/me above all other concerns.

JMHO,...but it's mine,...and I own it.

 

[lark sparrow]

I hope this hasn't already been added...

Here's an article that I really appreciated about the topic.

http://www.steel-door.com/discipline_vs_punishment.htm

Edited to add:

For those who don't have time to read it.

Discipline - To teach or train. Discipline is frequently assignments of actions or tasks designed to guide or further train the individual within the physical sphere.

Punishment - To impose a penalty upon such as pain, suffering, strict restraint or loss for some fault, offense or violation. Punishment may be considered to be the 'removal' of action in order to clarify and focus the attention and thoughts of the individual within the mental sphere.

 

[P. B. Walker]

good article... they make a good separation of the two.

PBW

 

[lark sparrow]

I love her site!

http://www.steel-door.com/Chamber.html

 

[P. B. Walker]

Damn....


Bookmark!

PBW

 

[AnonymousSlave]

Re: I hope this hasn't already been added...

Here's an article that I really appreciated about the topic.

http://www.steel-door.com/discipline_vs_punishment.htm

Edited to add:

For those who don't have time to read it.

Discipline - To teach or train. Discipline is frequently assignments of actions or tasks designed to guide or further train the individual within the physical sphere.

Punishment - To impose a penalty upon such as pain, suffering, strict restraint or loss for some fault, offense or violation. Punishment may be considered to be the 'removal' of action in order to clarify and focus the attention and thoughts of the individual within the mental sphere.

oops...

what i was about to say is...
isn't that pretty much the same thing i said earlier?
i think so...

 

[lark sparrow]

Re: Re: I hope this hasn't already been added...

oops...

what i was about to say is...
isn't that pretty much the same thing i said earlier?
i think so...

I only read the last page, which is why prefaced it with that post title. It just reminded me of that article by Mistress Steele I'd found interesting, so I posted it.... sorry for the repeat, AnonymousSlave. Yes, I think it is much the same thing you said earlier too!

 

[Ebonyfire]

**Bump**

 

[MissTaken]

Should discipline involve humiliation?

I realize this may vary from person to person, so feel free.

I don't believe discipline should be harmful to a person's psyche but do recognize there are times when problem solving and teaching require extreme measures.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Should discipline involve humiliation?

I realize this may vary from person to person, so feel free.

I don't believe discipline should be harmful to a person's psyche but do recognize there are times when problem solving and teaching require extreme measures.

In my dealings with male subs, humiliation can and is used in a disciplinary sense. Humiliation is not damaging to a person's psyche when it is part of a consentual D/s relationship. If a person's psyche is damaged, should they indulge in D/s activities? I think not.

Eb

 

[silkee_A]

focus

I think that the key to effective discipline is for the submissive to regain their focus. If the submissive does not become focused then has the discipline been effective? I think not.

How one's focus is retrieved by the Dominant is another story, some may just require a look, while others it may be more physical. There are so many forms of discipline that one could use that the list would be endless.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Bump

 

[zipman]

Punishment

I find it rare that I have to ever punish a sub. I agree with MissT that punishment should not be done with spanking, as most subs like that.

The one form of punishment that I have used when displeased with a subs actions was to have her pick out the name of one of her attractive friends that I would fantasize about while I fucked her. The thought of me with another woman really bothered her so I decided to not only fantasize about her friend while I fucked her, but I repeatedly called her by her friend's name. She did not enjoy the experience at all.

I, on the other hand, enjoyed it immensely and it did serve as a good punishment.

 

[MissTaken]

Ouch! Zip!

Remind me never to misbehave for you.

I knew someone once, who would use research and writing assignments as his means of discipline.

He felt it was an effort to broaden my thinking as well as exert control. The assignment might be relevant to the issue, or not.

I enjoyed doing the research and writing, but not always in his time frame.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Re: Punishment

I find it rare that I have to ever punish a sub. I agree with MissT that punishment should not be done with spanking, as most subs like that.

The one form of punishment that I have used when displeased with a subs actions was to have her pick out the name of one of her attractive friends that I would fantasize about while I fucked her. The thought of me with another woman really bothered her so I decided to not only fantasize about her friend while I fucked her, but I repeatedly called her by her friend's name. She did not enjoy the experience at all.

I, on the other hand, enjoyed it immensely and it did serve as a good punishment.

Oh definitely. A punishment is meant to be exactly that, a punishment. If she/he enjoys it, where is the punishment. Your form of punishment is particularly evil, zipman, espeically for someone with a jealousy problem. But highly effective I would imagine. I think it is up to the Dom/me to find the most effective punishment for a sub. What works wonders with one sub, will do nothing to another. I feel this is a highly personalized thing.

PBW

 

[Ebonyfire]

Punishment

I've never had to use punishment. If they willfully disobey, I dismiss them.

I uses discipline simply because I can.

Eb

 

[P. B. Walker]

Re: Punishment

I've never had to use punishment. If they willfully disobey, I dismiss them.

I uses discipline simply because I can.

Eb

Eb, how do you differeniate between willful disobediance and unintential disobediance? For example, say the sub walks in one day, totally ignoring the rule to disrobe and then addresses you in a non-honorary manner. I would call this willful disobediance and grounds for dismissal (at your discretion of course). That example is pretty clear cut. But what about the times when the sub was presented with a situation where they had to make a decision of the lesser evil. Meaning, they knew they had to break Rule A in order to comply with Rule B. So they may choose to break Rule A because they think Rule B is more important to you. The believe they are doing good by not breaking the greater rule. I can't think of a real world example right off the top of my head, but I'm sure one exists.

I understand you have part-time subs, so they maybe not be overburden with rules to the point that they would run into this situation. But I was wondering, if you would use punishment in a similar situation... a situation where they did not willfully disobey.

Gawd, I got long winded on that. Sorry.

PBW

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: Punishment

Oh definitely. A punishment is meant to be exactly that, a punishment. If she/he enjoys it, where is the punishment. Your form of punishment is particularly evil, zipman, espeically for someone with a jealousy problem. But highly effective I would imagine. I think it is up to the Dom/me to find the most effective punishment for a sub. What works wonders with one sub, will do nothing to another. I feel this is a highly personalized thing.

PBW

I can't even begin to describe the look on her face when I told her the punishment. The mere thought that I was going to do fuck her and be thinking of someone else had her very close to disobeying. Which is why I had to up the ante and actually call her by the other woman's name. And if you think that's evil, I just gave the abridged version.

I also made her describe how her friend would feel getting fucked by cock and I made her beg to lick "her friend's" juices off of my cock when I was finished.

But the transgression (showing up at my apartment and not being clean shaven) was never repeated.


MissT - Are you sure you don't want to misbehave? LOL. I take it that punishment struck a nerve with you.

 

[zipman]

Re: Re: Punishment

Eb, how do you differeniate between willful disobediance and unintential disobediance? For example, say the sub walks in one day, totally ignoring the rule to disrobe and then addresses you in a non-honorary manner. I would call this willful disobediance and grounds for dismissal (at your discretion of course). That example is pretty clear cut. But what about the times when the sub was presented with a situation where they had to make a decision of the lesser evil. Meaning, they knew they had to break Rule A in order to comply with Rule B. So they may choose to break Rule A because they think Rule B is more important to you. The believe they are doing good by not breaking the greater rule. I can't think of a real world example right off the top of my head, but I'm sure one exists.

I understand you have part-time subs, so they maybe not be overburden with rules to the point that they would run into this situation. But I was wondering, if you would use punishment in a similar situation... a situation where they did not willfully disobey.

Gawd, I got long winded on that. Sorry.

PBW

PBW,

An example could be:

Rule A: Never make the Dom/me wait
Rule B: Always be clean shaven

The dilemna could be the sub either has to shave and be late, or not shave and be on time.

Is this what you meant?

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Punishment

PBW,

An example could be:

Rule A: Never make the Dom/me wait
Rule B: Always be clean shaven

The dilemna could be the sub either has to shave and be late, or not shave and be on time.

Is this what you meant?

If they willfully lie or deviate from the agreed upon boundaries of our relationship, they are gone.

All they have to do is keep their word. anything else, like traffic is beneath my notice. I do not sweat the small stuff.

Eb

 

[P. B. Walker]

Re: Re: Re: Punishment

But the transgression (showing up at my apartment and not being clean shaven) was never repeated.


MissT - Are you sure you don't want to misbehave? LOL. I take it that punishment struck a nerve with you.

OMG! Hehe.. you did that punishment for that?! Wow. I bow to the Master!

PBW

 

[P. B. Walker]

Re: Re: Re: Punishment

PBW,

An example could be:

Rule A: Never make the Dom/me wait
Rule B: Always be clean shaven

The dilemna could be the sub either has to shave and be late, or not shave and be on time.

Is this what you meant?

Perfect! And it even fits with having part time subs... although I don't know if Eb has rules similar to those.

PBW