PUblished or Posted.

[sweetnpetite]

I'm pretty sure I've seen comments on this topic before, but no reall discussion.

I feel very strongly that posted work on literotica is NOT published. (unless it is a contest winner, and then we are in a grey area) The story belongs to me and only me, I have put it up in a 'public place' to share it. I can remove it at any time. I have not been paid or compensated (although that is not the standard).

The fact that I can remove it at any time, that the piece is soley under my control, to me says that it is posted and not published. I have entered into no contract beyond agreement to follow the rules of the site. I am meerly using the internet to share it with others.

Therefore, i do not consider it to be a 'publishing credit' (although it is a writing credit). Therefore I do not think it eliminates me from selling 'first rights' or prevents me from entering it into anything that requires unpublished material.

Material sellected as a contest winner could be a publishing credit and material selected for anthology is certainly published, but anything that I put up on my page and can remove at will is meerly posted. Available, I don't think is the same as published. (Excluding the argument that technically printing your story out on paper and showing it to someone could be called publishing)

What do you think? And what do you know concerning the law?

I also think that some publications may not wish to include materials that have appeared under the internet, but I don't feel that the writer has a duty to include this information (although they should remove it if they have sold rights to it, until such a time as the rights are reverted back to them)

Thoughts?

 

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure I've seen comments on this topic before, but no reall discussion.

I feel very strongly that posted work on literotica is NOT published. (unless it is a contest winner, and then we are in a grey area) The story belongs to me and only me, I have put it up in a 'public place' to share it. I can remove it at any time. I have not been paid or compensated (although that is not the standard).

The fact that I can remove it at any time, that the piece is soley under my control, to me says that it is posted and not published. I have entered into no contract beyond agreement to follow the rules of the site. I am meerly using the internet to share it with others.

Therefore, i do not consider it to be a 'publishing credit' (although it is a writing credit). Therefore I do not think it eliminates me from selling 'first rights' or prevents me from entering it into anything that requires unpublished material.

Material sellected as a contest winner could be a publishing credit and material selected for anthology is certainly published, but anything that I put up on my page and can remove at will is meerly posted. Available, I don't think is the same as published. (Excluding the argument that technically printing your story out on paper and showing it to someone could be called publishing)

What do you think? And what do you know concerning the law?

I also think that some publications may not wish to include materials that have appeared under the internet, but I don't feel that the writer has a duty to include this information (although they should remove it if they have sold rights to it, until such a time as the rights are reverted back to them)

Thoughts?

I don't know about the finer points of law in this case, but the blurb on the submission page does specify that the author retains ALL rights to the story.

I don't know what the LEGAL definition of "published" is, but since it is made available to the public, that is a possible definition.

from Merriam Webster

Main Entry: pub·lish
Pronunciation: 'p&-blish
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, modification of Middle French publier, from Latin publicare, from publicus public
transitive senses
1 a : to make generally known b : to make public announcement of
2 a : to disseminate to the public b : to produce or release for distribution; specifically : PRINT 2c c : to issue the work of (an author)
intransitive senses
1 : to put out an edition
2 : to have one's work accepted for publication
- pub·lish·able /-bli-sh&-b&l/ adjective

Which would mean that someone saying the work was published would at least be abiding by the definition of the word.

If a person wanted to draw a distinction, I think that could also be made, that "publication" implies being paid for one's work.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I consider it not published because it has not undergone any rigorous or substantial process of vetting or elimination. As long as it's spelled and punctuated somewhat coherently, Lit will post it. That, to me, is not publication, at least in terms of "publication credit" as in "I am a published author."

In terms of legal rights - i.e., "this work has never been published before" - I think you're on trickier ground, but that's because that judgement comes from different priorities. If you're adding "I am a published author" to a resume or cold call letter, you're claiming that you've cleared a substantial hurdle, which Lit is not. If you're claiming that a specific story is "never published before," you're claiming that your work is not widely disseminated, which it is.

Shanglan

(ETA: In short, it's whichever is least convenient to the circumstances, unfortunately.)

 

[Boxlicker101]

I'm pretty sure I've seen comments on this topic before, but no reall discussion.

I feel very strongly that posted work on literotica is NOT published. (unless it is a contest winner, and then we are in a grey area) The story belongs to me and only me, I have put it up in a 'public place' to share it. I can remove it at any time. I have not been paid or compensated (although that is not the standard).

The fact that I can remove it at any time, that the piece is soley under my control, to me says that it is posted and not published. I have entered into no contract beyond agreement to follow the rules of the site. I am meerly using the internet to share it with others.

Therefore, i do not consider it to be a 'publishing credit' (although it is a writing credit). Therefore I do not think it eliminates me from selling 'first rights' or prevents me from entering it into anything that requires unpublished material.

Material sellected as a contest winner could be a publishing credit and material selected for anthology is certainly published, but anything that I put up on my page and can remove at will is meerly posted. Available, I don't think is the same as published. (Excluding the argument that technically printing your story out on paper and showing it to someone could be called publishing)

What do you think? And what do you know concerning the law?

I also think that some publications may not wish to include materials that have appeared under the internet, but I don't feel that the writer has a duty to include this information (although they should remove it if they have sold rights to it, until such a time as the rights are reverted back to them)

Thoughts?

I would be inclined to agree with you except that I consider contest winners to be equally unpublished. I can, any time I choose, withdraw any of my stories and poems. If I win a contest (unlikely, but possible) I can still withdraw the story from Lit.

Several of my stories have appeared in magazines issued by MVP Group. These have been published because I no longer have any control over them; anybody can buy the mags and read the stories whether I withdraw them from Lit. or not. Two of my poems have been published in "Coming Together An Erotic Cocktail" and these I would consider to have been published for the same reason.

 

[neonlyte]

Not published - but I'm sure the definition will change in coming years. Hand held electonic 'books' are being shown as prototypes in the major electronics fairs, the first will appear on the market later this year. Conventional publishers (print media) are already beginning to position themselves to produce output for an electronic book market with downloads similar to i-Pod.

The big problem, as with music, is encryption, how do you keep the electronic page only on the device that downloaded it.

At the moment I prefer printed books, the electronic book will not only give you stories, it will also give every other conceivable form of information you might require whilst on the move, if takes off like i-Pod, print publishers will suffer, which is why they are scrambling to position themselves.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I would be inclined to agree with you except that I consider contest winners to be equally unpublished. I can, any time I choose, withdraw any of my stories and poems. If I win a contest (unlikely, but possible) I can still withdraw the story from Lit.

Well, you CAN, but when you win a contest (and eccept the prize) you agree to leave your story posted for a specified amount of time. that's why it's somewhat of a gray area. You really can't just take it down at *any* time. A larger agreement takes place which could possibly be considered publication. (you've been selected, paid and agree to keep the material posted for a specific amount of time. you retain rights, but the 'publisher' now has certain rights to your property as well)

 

[Guest]

Not published - but I'm sure the definition will change in coming years. Hand held electonic 'books' are being shown as prototypes in the major electronics fairs, the first will appear on the market later this year. Conventional publishers (print media) are already beginning to position themselves to produce output for an electronic book market with downloads similar to i-Pod.

The big problem, as with music, is encryption, how do you keep the electronic page only on the device that downloaded it.

At the moment I prefer printed books, the electronic book will not only give you stories, it will also give every other conceivable form of information you might require whilst on the move, if takes off like i-Pod, print publishers will suffer, which is why they are scrambling to position themselves.

I had an E-Bookman when they first came out, because I always have a book with me, and the temptation to have 15 or 20 to hand was irresistably. Unfortunately, the battery life was piss poor. I'll have to see what's new on the horizon.

The definitions are going to change, I'll agree, just as the whole "intellectual property" definitions are shifting and changing.

I agree tho with Shanglan, while the definition of "published" is mostly "made available to the public", the modern interpretation implies being tested to a high standard (or at least a marketing standard), via editors, and it implies some sort of payment.

I have used Lit mostly for "unpublishable" work -- fan fiction and so forth -- and as a testing ground for work I'm not sure how to market. I've also discovered a huge network of smart, helpful people here, who I plan on using until they squirm to help me improve my salable work!

 

[Liar]

I agree tho with Shanglan, while the definition of "published" is mostly "made available to the public", the modern interpretation implies being tested to a high standard (or at least a marketing standard), via editors, and it implies some sort of payment.

Well, to some extent, i agree with you. But then there's the whole business of self publication. And of blogs that are being read as if they're newspapers. In these cases, it's not the discerning eye of editors that determines the wor's validness as a publication, but the sale and utrust of the audience.

There's a lot of grey zone here, it seems. And it's quite easy to trip over one's own definition.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Someone has also mentioned in the past that if you take a story off Lit, and do some content editing, then the story is no longer the same as it was on Lit and therefore... unpublished.

 

[Liar]

Someone has also mentioned in the past that if you take a story off Lit, and do some content editing, then the story is no longer the same as it was on Lit and therefore... unpublished.

Yeah, but technically, you'd be plagarizing a story previously published on Lit.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Another factor: If I remove one of my stories from Lit., there is a good chance it is posted somewhere by a plagiarist or pirate. I would have no practical control over it then. So, then is it considered to be published?

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

Yeah, but technically, you'd be plagarizing a story previously published on Lit.

How can you plagarize your own story?

 

[Liar]

Another factor: If I remove one of my stories from Lit., there is a good chance it is posted somewhere by a plagiarist or pirate. I would have no practical control over it then. So, then is it considered to be published?

And some readers may have saved it as a file on their hard drived to read later. Like an e-bok basically.

So then it's published, but out of print, kind of.

 

[Liar]

How can you plagarize your own story?

Hey, there's Me, Myself and I in here. What if I wrote the first version, and not Me?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Another factor: If I remove one of my stories from Lit., there is a good chance it is posted somewhere by a plagiarist or pirate. I would have no practical control over it then. So, then is it considered to be published?

And some readers may have saved it as a file on their hard drived to read later. Like an e-bok basically.

So then it's published, but out of print, kind of.

Besides the fact that some people download and print stories. One of my readers told me she printed all my stories and kept them in a notebook. Have they been published?

 

[Boxlicker101]

How can you plagarize your own story?

I think that if I sold all rights to a story, removed it from Lit. and rewrote it, making some minor changes, and posted it, would that be plagiarism?

 

[Liar]

Besides the fact that some people download and print stories. One of my readers told me she printed all my stories and kept them in a notebook. Have they been published?

Dunno, but now I'm jealous. Why don't I have readers like that, dammit?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Besides the fact that some people download and print stories. One of my readers told me she printed all my stories and kept them in a notebook. Have they been published?

Dunno, but now I'm jealous. Why don't I have readers like that, dammit?

Maybe your stories aren't dirty enough.

Actually, at the time I was writing stories and sending them to various women who had expressed an interest in reading them. Later, I started just posting them here. For all you know, there might be hundreds of readers who print your stories or mine to read at night in bed.

 

[Guest]

I would be inclined to agree with you except that I consider contest winners to be equally unpublished. I can, any time I choose, withdraw any of my stories and poems. If I win a contest (unlikely, but possible) I can still withdraw the story from Lit.

I believe that if you win a contest you agree to leave your story posted on Lit for TWO years after winning the contest.

 

[Guest]

Maybe the vaguaries of modern technology have obliterated the definitions we use. Maybe we need a new word.

Publicated -- making a work of fiction public, but not via the traditional publication channels. and without a transfer of compensation for rights to the work.

Anyway, that's my .02 worth. I go now to play with wire.

 

[impressive]

Maybe we need a new word.

Publicated

Love it!

 

[Colleen Thomas]

AS far as the US copyright office is concerned, you're published. You must copyright works posted online as previously published woeks. For whatever that is worth.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I believe that if you win a contest you agree to leave your story posted on Lit for TWO years after winning the contest.

OK, I was NOT aware of that. I don't think I need have any concern over that rule.

 

[cloudy]

OK, I was NOT aware of that. I don't think I need have any concern over that rule.

I believe it's a year, but I could be wrong.

 

[rgraham666]

Nope. It's two years.

I was looking around to get Abyss published when I found that out.