Psychological segue

[verycuriouswriter]

I feel I've had a chance to sample pretty much the entire catalog for my particular interests and I have discovered something that puzzles me.

There seems to be little appetite to fully tackle the psychology of segue.

Literotica is not visual or physical, it's mental, and the mind is all about psychology. It's our biggest tool for breathing life into our characters.

Don't get me wrong, psychology exists on literotica in my category, but the characters either develop too rapidly or not at all, making the psychology of the stories unconvincing. So often, they feel like one dimensional moments in time.

It's because the stories lack the depth of properly evolving characters. There is so little care for flushing out the psychological segue. Sometimes such segue exists, but only in ad-hoc fits and starts. The thoughtless gaps in this segue break any spell the story could have spun.

And then it isn't so much a story, at best it's just a static clip of the characters lives.

And psychology doesn't just have to be about making the characters seem dynamic and real, it can also be a huge well to draw upon for the erotica itself.

An example of this is humiliation play which IRL is entirely psychological. There are hundreds if not thousands of stories on literotica which explore this topic, but I've only found a few that seem to understand that the psychology of the characters is where the real meat lies.

These handful of stories appreciate that it's not so much the acts themselves that delights this reader(and perhaps others), but how they impact the state of mind of their characters. The stories spend time building context so I can suspend my disbelief and what the characters feel in the stories become real to me. There is also convincing evolution, adding another dimension of depth.

A harmless favor and make believe cuckold (ch 1) are two that I thought did this quite well, blending the right combination of erotica and proper pacing of the mental changes of their characters.

The former explored the main character's psychology in greater depth, but the latter was perhaps better in that it seem to effortlessly and instinctively understand the need to show and not tell in this mental task. And by hiding the mental changes from the main character, a very short story becomes an iceberg in my the mind. I can see through the eyes of the characters the ice that floats above the surface, but I am impacted by the unwritten mass that extend into the depths below.

(
Shouldn't require stating, but the above is purely one person's opinion and should obviously be treated as such. Everyone's tastes differ, and psychology might not be interesting to others. Also, where psychological evolution should begin and end is a reasonable point of debate perhaps unfairly glossed over by this post.

Suggestions for stories I might have missed with the above focus would be appreciated. I draw upon them for inspiration in my own writing.
)

 

[NotWise]

Lit is probably the wrong venue to look for stories where the stimulus and reaction all require some kind of justification. There may be stories that draw that out, but mostly we assume that desire is there and needs to be satisfied.

 

[XerXesXu]

An example of this is humiliation play which IRL is entirely psychological. There are hundreds if not thousands of stories on literotica which explore this topic, but I've only found a few that seem to understand that the psychology of the characters is where the real meat lies.

Because the transition from not having a paraphilia to having a paraphilia is, generally, not understood by the persons themselves. They may be able to say ‘when’ and ‘how’, but ‘why’ is more difficult. Arousal is a conditioned physiological response, and not accessible to thought processes. Why do some people find things rewarding and arousing? Difficult.

Incest is popular because it's ‘taboo’. So it is, but it has no appeal for me. The word ‘taboo’ explains nothing of the psychology, nor does ‘different strokes for different folks.’

 

[verycuriouswriter]

Writing a story about the transition from not having to having a fetish would be interesting, but not necessarily what I'm talking about here.

Rather the paraphilia could simply always be present - just latent.

The psychological process whereby it's brought to the surface is where a lot of literotica gold is just left lying on the ground, untouched. The seduction and foreplay that comes before is what makes the climax.

Importantly, showing and not telling that process is complex and tricky and likely requires killing a lot of darlings - but well worth the effort.

 

[SimonDoom]

Rendering the psychology of a character's development or discovery of a new kink/fetish/erotic desire in a convincing way is difficult in the confines of a short story. Some suspension of disbelief is almost always necessary. I don't see this as a problem, because I'm usually willing to suspend disbelief as long as the author has gone to some minimal degree of effort to maintain verisimilitude, but I agree I'd like to see more stories probe the psychological side more convincingly, and for that matter I'd like to try to do more of it myself. I've got some upcoming story projects where I plan to do that, but so far I've delved only very superficially into psychological issues.

If anybody can name some Lit stories that do this well I would encourage them to post links to them.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Is it "little appetite", or just that it's hard?

Character development is one of my favourite things in stories, both to read and write. But it's a lot of work, and even when I've put that work in it's hard to gauge whether I've got it right in my own eyes, let alone somebody else's.

 

[SimonDoom]

Very much the latter, I think.

My impression is there's a very large and eager readership at Literotica for stories with more exploration of the characters' psychology. I agree with the OP that there's an opportunity here that is to some degree untapped.

 

[Rustyoznail]

It's an interesting idea, but it would take a writer interested in that area to develop it. I like developing characters, but that's one step too far for me. I don't think I could do the concept justice.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Rendering the psychology of a character's development or discovery of a new kink/fetish/erotic desire in a convincing way is difficult in the confines of a short story. Some suspension of disbelief is almost always necessary. I don't see this as a problem, because I'm usually willing to suspend disbelief as long as the author has gone to some minimal degree of effort to maintain verisimilitude, but I agree I'd like to see more stories probe the psychological side more convincingly, and for that matter I'd like to try to do more of it myself. I've got some upcoming story projects where I plan to do that, but so far I've delved only very superficially into psychological issues.

If anybody can name some Lit stories that do this well I would encourage them to post links to them.

I think Simon's already read this one, but I'll self-promo my story "The Floggings Will Continue..."

One of my objectives in writing this one was to take a storyline that would usually depend heavily on a mind-control deus ex machina, and replace that with mundane psychology - I had to show on the page how the antagonist takes control of a group of people and goads them into outrageous behaviour, without invoking hypnosis/wonder drugs/etc. etc. My goal was to make that scenario feel at least halfway believable.

Whether I succeeded in that is up to the readers, but I definitely tried!

 

[SamScribble]

And then maybe the readers just come here in search of a little light entertainment and titillation. Just a thought.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I started writing and posting a series of stories about a married couple getting into a swinger lifestyle. As a beginner, my writings weren't very descriptive. When I checked with an editor, he made some recommendations, one of which I replied back "That's out of character for her." He replied "I don't know that, because you didn't build the characters.

Since then, I focused on writing three chapters to develop the two main characters, with their underlying motivations as a new series "Lifestyle Ch. 01: ___" etc. I'm now rewriting the other chapters with those first three as the basis.

IMO, building those characters and the psychology background for their future decisions takes time and can't be rushed in a short story. Many people can't relate to characters other than with their own personal experiences, and they react negatively to stories they can't relate to.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I'd like to read more stories about what goes on in people's heads. I agree there's not many on Lit - or they're hard to find. I know I've searched for a tag 'paychological' and similar and found only about a dozen stories, and I think three are mine. Several of the others didn't really address what was happening in characters' heads. Fanfic often does it better.

I can recommend Bramblethorn's 'The floggings will continue' as the funniest story I've ever read on Lit (maybe don't read if you've just been asked to organise your work motivational awayday...)

 

[SimonDoom]

I think Simon's already read this one, but I'll self-promo my story "The Floggings Will Continue..."

One of my objectives in writing this one was to take a storyline that would usually depend heavily on a mind-control deus ex machina, and replace that with mundane psychology - I had to show on the page how the antagonist takes control of a group of people and goads them into outrageous behaviour, without invoking hypnosis/wonder drugs/etc. etc. My goal was to make that scenario feel at least halfway believable.

Whether I succeeded in that is up to the readers, but I definitely tried!

Good example, and I still smile when I think about how that story ended. That was a well-crafted tale. It combined outrageous sex with psychology with a critique (intended or not) on corporate culture.

 

[Djmac1031]

Not entirely sure if this is what you're talking about, but I'm currently editing a new chapter in my Jenna series where the two leads discuss the origins and feelings behind the male leads CFNM fetish; where it began, why he likes it etc.

And it really stemmed from me trying to explain my connection to CFNM and how and why it appeals to ME.

And I plan on expanding on this idea as the story progresses.

I write the series in short chapters as I find it easier to maintain focus on a specific plot point or development and keep it easily digestible.

But I definitely want to delve deeper into the thoughts and feelings behind the actions.

 

[gordo12]

You assume people want these attributes and authors want to write them.

You mention humiliation. That must be big for you.

As a reader I loath stories that humiliate characters. If there's a story that will tempt me with a -10 star vote, that'll be the one! Instead, I abandon them.

As a writer, I don't want to write that. I tried weak male characters in early stories but no longer want to.

And while you talk about the depth of the characters, the readers are talking about how long it took them to get off. IE: length of story.

Diverse objectives and all that!

 

[rescatooor]

You assume people want these attributes and authors want to write them.

You mention humiliation. That must be big for you.

As a reader I loath stories that humiliate characters. If there's a story that will tempt me with a -10 star vote, that'll be the one! Instead, I abandon them.

As a writer, I don't want to write that. I tried weak male characters in early stories but no longer want to.

And while you talk about the depth of the characters, the readers are talking about how long it took them to get off. IE: length of story.

Diverse objectives and all that!

Now, now. Clearly some people in here are saying that is something they would like to see. Not just on humiliation but in general.

As a female I can tell you that from my own experience it's insanely difficult to read one of these stories off a computer or a phone while getting off. (It's a two hand operation.) If other females have any of the same issues, we might be talking of a fair chunk of readership in here. And it's way easier to recreate those scenes in your head, if you understand the thinking behind it.

 

[NotWise]

As a female I can tell you that from my own experience it's insanely difficult to read one of these stories off a computer or a phone while getting off. (It's a two hand operation.) If other females have any of the same issues, we might be talking of a fair chunk of readership in here. And it's way easier to recreate those scenes in your head, if you know understand the thinking behind it.

FWIW, I decided before I published my first story here that I wasn't writing for one-handed readers. My aim was to write stories that could titillate the reader after they read it -- over and over, ideally.

 

[gordo12]

Now, now. Clearly some people in here are saying that is something they would like to see. Not just on humiliation but in general.

As a female I can tell you that from my own experience it's insanely difficult to read one of these stories off a computer or a phone while getting off. (It's a two hand operation.) If other females have any of the same issues, we might be talking of a fair chunk of readership in here. And it's way easier to recreate those scenes in your head, if you understand the thinking behind it.

You can dress a skunk up in a skirt and at the end of the day, it's still a skunk.

All that fancy language sorts itself out here:

"An example of this is humiliation play which IRL is entirely psychological. There are hundreds if not thousands of stories on literotica which explore this topic, but I've only found a few that seem to understand that the psychology of the characters is where the real meat lies.

These handful of stories appreciate that it's not so much the acts themselves that delights this reader(and perhaps others), but how they impact the state of mind of their characters. The stories spend time building context so I can suspend my disbelief and what the characters feel in the stories become real to me. There is also convincing evolution, adding another dimension of depth.

A harmless favor and make believe cuckold (ch 1) are two that I thought did this quite well, blending the right combination of erotica and proper pacing of the mental changes of their characters."

Basically, he's talking about cuck humiliation stories, and if that's your kink, great. I dislike them. Period.

Regardless of what other people here like, he has my opinion, straight to the point. I'm not aiming it at anyone else.

 

[8letters]

You can dress a skunk up in a skirt and at the end of the day, it's still a skunk.

All that fancy language sorts itself out here:

"An example of this is humiliation play which IRL is entirely psychological. There are hundreds if not thousands of stories on literotica which explore this topic, but I've only found a few that seem to understand that the psychology of the characters is where the real meat lies.

These handful of stories appreciate that it's not so much the acts themselves that delights this reader(and perhaps others), but how they impact the state of mind of their characters. The stories spend time building context so I can suspend my disbelief and what the characters feel in the stories become real to me. There is also convincing evolution, adding another dimension of depth.

A harmless favor and make believe cuckold (ch 1) are two that I thought did this quite well, blending the right combination of erotica and proper pacing of the mental changes of their characters."

Basically, he's talking about cuck humiliation stories, and if that's your kink, great. I dislike them. Period.

Regardless of what other people here like, he has my opinion, straight to the point. I'm not aiming it at anyone else.

I've read a few cuckold/hot wife stories that have been posted for feedback in the Story Feedback forum, and I'll have to second the OP's statement. I read primarily I/T, and in those stories there's almost always an explanation as the why the characters want to engage in behavior that society thinks is immoral and unacceptable. It may be as simple as he's got a big cock and she's got big tits, but there's almost always a justification for crossing the line into a wrong relationship.

In the few cuckold/hot wife stories I've read, the main male characters act like wanting someone to fuck your wife is absolutely normal. There's no explanation as to why the male character would want that to happen. One story I read, a couple were touring a sex club with the manager. The husband initiated the visit and at one point tells the manager, "The top thing for me is I want to watch another man fuck my wife." No explanation given as if it is perfectly normal for a man to want to watch another man fuck his wife and was willing to pay big bucks to join a sex club to make it happen.

I'm not kink shaming. I'm not saying that I/T is any better than stories where the man is cuckold and humiliated. I'm saying my reaction is "WTF?" when no explanation is given as to why a male character would want to be cuckold and humiliated.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I've read a few cuckold/hot wife stories that have been posted for feedback in the Story Feedback forum, and I'll have to second the OP's statement. I read primarily I/T, and in those stories there's almost always an explanation as the why the characters want to engage in behavior that society thinks is immoral and unacceptable. It may be as simple as he's got a big cock and she's got big tits, but there's almost always a justification for crossing the line into a wrong relationship.

In the few cuckold/hot wife stories I've read, the main male characters act like wanting someone to fuck your wife is absolutely normal. There's no explanation as to why the male character would want that to happen. One story I read, a couple were touring a sex club with the manager. The husband initiated the visit and at one point tells the manager, "The top thing for me is I want to watch another man fuck my wife." No explanation given as if it is perfectly normal for a man to want to watch another man fuck his wife and was willing to pay big bucks to join a sex club to make it happen.

I'm not kink shaming. I'm not saying that I/T is any better than stories where the man is cuckold and humiliated. I'm saying my reaction is "WTF?" when no explanation is given as to why a male character would want to be cuckold and humiliated.

Ask a real cuckold why, most of the time, he can't give you the reason. Some say they are inadequate in bed, and want her happy. Some say they have a small cock and don't want to lose her. But those are excuses for what they want.

I write cuckold stories only by request and have them write a basic outline. I ask the man (it's always the man that ask for the story) a lot of question. I try to dig into the why. I don't think I have ever received a truthful answer to the quest.

I'm not certain how or why these men develop this need, desire, yearning, which every it is.

What they do tell me is the rollercoaster they ride on when it happens. The “cuck” experiences a vast and varied set of emotions. Feeling at odds with one another; jealousy, gratefulness, shame, stimulation, incompetence, and desire. They love the ride!

Why do you like a rollercoaster? Because it's scary and fun. I think it is the same for all of them.

 

[rescatooor]

I've read a few cuckold/hot wife stories that have been posted for feedback in the Story Feedback forum, and I'll have to second the OP's statement. I read primarily I/T, and in those stories there's almost always an explanation as the why the characters want to engage in behavior that society thinks is immoral and unacceptable. It may be as simple as he's got a big cock and she's got big tits, but there's almost always a justification for crossing the line into a wrong relationship.

In the few cuckold/hot wife stories I've read, the main male characters act like wanting someone to fuck your wife is absolutely normal. There's no explanation as to why the male character would want that to happen. One story I read, a couple were touring a sex club with the manager. The husband initiated the visit and at one point tells the manager, "The top thing for me is I want to watch another man fuck my wife." No explanation given as if it is perfectly normal for a man to want to watch another man fuck his wife and was willing to pay big bucks to join a sex club to make it happen.

I'm not kink shaming. I'm not saying that I/T is any better than stories where the man is cuckold and humiliated. I'm saying my reaction is "WTF?" when no explanation is given as to why a male character would want to be cuckold and humiliated.

I only have one cuckold story so I'm by no means an expert. But you could think of many weird explanations for it. In my story, it's a question of power balance. She thinks she is humiliating him, he thinks she is degrading herself. Ultimately both get what they want, even if they don't realize it.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm not kink shaming. I'm not saying that I/T is any better than stories where the man is cuckold and humiliated. I'm saying my reaction is "WTF?" when no explanation is given as to why a male character would want to be cuckold and humiliated.

You make an excellent point, and I think it's true. Too few stories explain the motive. And let's be clear -- there's not just one motive in these stories. Gordo is entitled to his dislike of these stories, but not all "cheating wife" stories are about humiliation. In the community that explores "the lifestyle" there are at least two very different groups, with entirely different dynamics. One involves cuckoldry and humiliation. The other is the stag/vixen relationship, where the man may be a dominant who nevertheless enjoys exposing his wife and guiding her sexual relations with other men. No humiliation is involved.

One story that I think does a pretty good job exploring and explaining the motive is Bobfr's Home Business. In that story, the initial motive is money. Guy A is down on his luck and meets Guy B at a bar, and, long story short, Guy B ends up convincing Guy A to get his wife involved in porn involving other men. Guy A has to convince the reluctant wife, too. There's lots of awkwardness, but they both realize the idea turns them on. I thought the motive aspect of it was well handled.

I think an interesting idea for a story would be about a man who is outwardly a successful "alpha" type person with a good job, but who is unhappy for reasons he doesn't quite understand. He seeks submissiveness and humiliation, and he doesn't know it. His condition makes it hard for him to perform in bed, to the distress of his wife, who is restless. One way or another they delve into the world of her getting involved in extramarital fun and his humiliation, which is satisfying to him.

 

[gordo12]

You make an excellent point, and I think it's true. Too few stories explain the motive. And let's be clear -- there's not just one motive in these stories. Gordo is entitled to his dislike of these stories, but not all "cheating wife" stories are about humiliation. In the community that explores "the lifestyle" there are at least two very different groups, with entirely different dynamics. One involves cuckoldry and humiliation. The other is the stag/vixen relationship, where the man may be a dominant who nevertheless enjoys exposing his wife and guiding her sexual relations with other men. No humiliation is involved.

One story that I think does a pretty good job exploring and explaining the motive is Bobfr's Home Business. In that story, the initial motive is money. Guy A is down on his luck and meets Guy B at a bar, and, long story short, Guy B ends up convincing Guy A to get his wife involved in porn involving other men. Guy A has to convince the reluctant wife, too. There's lots of awkwardness, but they both realize the idea turns them on. I thought the motive aspect of it was well handled.

I think an interesting idea for a story would be about a man who is outwardly a successful "alpha" type person with a good job, but who is unhappy for reasons he doesn't quite understand. He seeks submissiveness and humiliation, and he doesn't know it. His condition makes it hard for him to perform in bed, to the distress of his wife, who is restless. One way or another they delve into the world of her getting involved in extramarital fun and his humiliation, which is satisfying to him.

There are plenty of stories as you describe Simon. I'm well aware of the difference between cuckold, cuckold humiliation and hot wives etc. I never did finish Home Business. He left it hanging for the longest time and I dropped it.

I've read good cuck stories. Even complimented the author on them. BUT!

The cuckold humiliation often comes with husbands being tied up, abused. raped, made to suck cock or eat the lover's cum out of her pussy. Beatings, torture, the list goes on and on. I've read guys being held down while multiple men rape his mouth or ass! Or threatened into accepting it. Drugging, blackmailing are common themes. Often it will morph into full-on M/M or Bi content without any tags to warn. That I resent.

All in the name of humiliation. Yes, it's a fantasy and BTW I've never met one in real life. Can't even think of anybody who comes close. I suspect it's one of those fantasies that never or seldom gets practised.

But let me ask you all a question:

Would you be comfortable with those stories if it was the woman getting treated like I describe above? Or would that be a step too far?

 

[gordo12]

Anyway, I've had my say. I'm pretty sure everyone knows how I feel!

 

[Stillrandy]

May it be that some, if not the most important, factors in the psychological aspect of the stories were formed in a character's early life? And that is an area that is not explorable in Literotica, so the underlying issues and motives have to be 'fudged' into their adult life. Which makes things sort of incomplete or obscure. So it seems to me.

No, I am not prompting for a change in the underage limit, but that blank in the character's early life makes it difficult to clearly or completely describe the psychology of whatever may or may not happen in the story.

Just my opinion...