Proposed California Law Banning All Plastic Bags

[sdsioux]

I for one am glad to see this and hope it becomes law. I've seen the toxicity of what these bags have done to our bays, beaches, and littered highways. From what I understand they don't decompose like #5 triangle plastic and have to go through some process first.

As far as I'm concerned they can take a step further and ban all plastic material. I'd be ok with getting my donut holes in a paper bag, recycled glass soda bottles (understand they lasted for years), and on and on. I already bring canvas bags to the market and immediately set them on the check out belt and the robot clerks some of the time still start using the plastic until I remind them. I always bring a mug for a coffee.

Oh wait the oil industry probably won't let us do that.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Certainly, all plastic should be banned.

Computer monitors should be made of metal, like in the Good Old Days.

 

[TxRad]

Certainly, all plastic should be banned.

Computer monitors should be made of metal, like in the Good Old Days.

I could certainly use a stainless steel laptop.

The petroleum industry could probably care less about plastics. They have enough headaches trying to feed cars and trucks.

 

[sdsioux]

As they are raking in huge profits with no regard for our ecology and keeping the antiquated gasoline engine around.

 

[3113]

Computer monitors should be made of metal, like in the Good Old Days.

I could certainly use a stainless steel laptop.

Mines aluminum and I'm very happy with it Actually, the keys are still plastic and I'm sure other parts are as well, but the monitor is glass and the body is aluminum. Very sleek and nice, and fairly light, too.

 

[driphoney]

I could certainly use a stainless steel laptop.

The petroleum industry could probably care less about plastics. They have enough headaches trying to feed cars and trucks.

And just think how heavy cars will get again and how low gas milage will be!

I really need a chemistry class! Are synthetics "plastics"?

Will I have to drag out the ol' ironing board?

But I do take the point on eliminating some plastics. I like glass bottles, and I think glass is more recyclable.

However, even that has a downside. Glass is heavy, so transportation costs for products stored in glass will go up.

 

[driphoney]

Mines aluminum and I'm very happy with it Actually, the keys are still plastic and I'm sure other parts are as well, but the monitor is glass and the body is aluminum. Very sleek and nice, and fairly light, too.

Edited. I was wrong.

Why does my Mac look metallic, but tap like plastic. Interesting.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Mines aluminum and I'm very happy with it Actually, the keys are still plastic and I'm sure other parts are as well, but the monitor is glass and the body is aluminum. Very sleek and nice, and fairly light, too.

I want an aluminum mouse.

 

[sdsioux]

You do realize that solar is free and that the beverage manufacturers don't want to deal with cleaning, bottling, and reusing the glass. You can choose to buy beer in glass today. The lobbies from companies such as Coke, Pepsico, Cadbury/Schweppes are so powerful there is little to be done. My button was pushed a bit this morning, sorry. Why does the government subsidize a product, tobacco that kills people? For the tax money they get ya think. Same thing with liquor. Think of how many more people would be alive today with less heartache in their lives if prohibition had stayed as a law. I very recently had a friend who was killed along with two others by a 16 year old under the influence of alcohol. He'll be tried as a minor meaning he'll walk away from this someday. Sorry for ranting

 

[cloudy]

You do realize that solar is free and that the beverage manufacturers don't want to deal with cleaning, bottling, and reusing the glass. You can choose to buy beer in glass today. The lobbies from companies such as Coke, Pepsico, Cadbury/Schweppes are so powerful there is little to be done. My button was pushed a bit this morning, sorry. Why does the government subsidize a product, tobacco that kills people? For the tax money they get ya think. Same thing with liquor. Think of how many more people would be alive today with less heartache in their lives if prohibition had stayed as a law. I very recently had a friend who was killed along with two others by a 16 year old under the influence of alcohol. He'll be tried as a minor meaning he'll walk away from this someday. Sorry for ranting

Why is that the fault of the alcohol industry and not the kid's fault?

Please. No one forces anyone to drink, and that's coming from someone who's culture has been ravaged by alcohol.

 

[trysail]

...Are synthetics "plastics"? ...

Polypropylene is. Dacron is. "Polyester" which is actually Polyethylene terephthalate ( "PET" or "PETE" carries the symbol http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e2/Resin-identification-code-1-PETE.svg/200px-Resin-identification-code-1-PETE.svg.png and is commonly recycled) is. All the olefins and aromatics are. Synthetic Acrylic · Aramid (Twaron · Kevlar · Technora · Nomex) · Carbon (Tenax) · Derclon · Microfiber · Modacrylic · Nylon · Olefin · Polyester · Polyethylene (Dyneema · Spectra) · Spandex · Vinalon · Zylon

Rayon is not since it uses cellulose as a feedstock.



Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyester

Fabrics woven from polyester thread or yarn are used extensively in apparel and home furnishings, from shirts and pants to jackets and hats, bed sheets, blankets and upholstered furniture. Industrial polyester fibers, yarns and ropes are used in tyre reinforcements, fabrics for conveyor belts, safety belts, coated fabrics and plastic reinforcements with high-energy absorption. Polyester fiber is used as cushioning and insulating material in pillows, comforters and upholstery padding.

While synthetic clothing in general is perceived by some as having a less-natural feel compared to fabrics woven from natural fibres (such as cotton and wool), polyester fabrics can provide specific advantages over natural fabrics, such as improved wrinkle resistance. As a result, polyester fibres are sometimes spun together with natural fibres to produce a cloth with blended properties. Synthetic fibres also can create materials with superior water, wind and environmental resistance compared to plant-derived fibres.

Polyesters are also used to make "plastic" bottles, films, tarpaulin, canoes, liquid crystal displays, holograms, filters, dielectric film for capacitors, film insulation for wire and insulating tapes.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CLOUDY-JACK

Which of your cultures are you referring to; youve claimed 3-4 so far.

 

[sdsioux]

Why is that the fault of the alcohol industry and not the kid's fault?

Please. No one forces anyone to drink, and that's coming from someone who's culture has been ravaged by alcohol.

If it weren't made in the first place most people wouldn't do it. I said most not all. Compare the number of pot smokers to drinkers. Alcohol kills. I don't drink yet I'm affected by this. So are the family members of the other two deaths and the family of the kid who killed the innocent people and the kid himself. He'll have to live with it.

Also explain to me why 3 people had to die and this kid will walk away.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Think of how many more people would be alive today with less heartache in their lives if prohibition had stayed as a law.

And think of how many otherwise law-abiding people would presently be housed in jails at the taxpayer's expense.

I very recently had a friend who was killed along with two others by a 16 year old under the influence of alcohol. He'll be tried as a minor meaning he'll walk away from this someday.

http://www.johnsbook.net/news02.php

While working alone on his parents' Hurdsfield, North Dakota farm in January 1992, Thompson's shirt became entangled in a power take-off while grinding feed. In an instant, both his arms were ripped from his body and he was knocked unconscious. His dog Tuffy licked his face until he regained consciousness. Thompson, then an 18 year-old high school senior, gathered his strength, staggered more than 100 yards to the farmhouse and opened the door with his mouth. Inside, he grasped a pencil in his teeth and used it to punch numbers on the telephone to call for help. He then climbed into the bathtub so he wouldn't bleed on his mother's carpet. After initial treatment at St. Aloisius Hospital in Harvey, North Dakota, Thompson was flown to North Memorial Medical Center in Robbinsdale, Minnesota where he underwent a six-hour long operation to reattach his arms.

Clearly farm machinery should be banned, and crops harvested manually.

 

[cloudy]

If it weren't made in the first place most people wouldn't do it. I said most not all. Compare the number of pot smokers to drinkers. Alcohol kills. I don't drink yet I'm affected by this. So are the family members of the other two deaths and the family of the kid who killed the innocent people and the kid himself. He'll have to live with it.

Also explain to me why 3 people had to die and this kid will walk away.

It's still the DRINKER'S fault, not the alcohol's fault.

Your last sentence has diddly-squat to do with the issue you raised. It has to do with our justice system - which is a whole 'nother can of worms.

eta: you know, you're far from the only one here who's life has been affected negatively by alcohol. Being so self-righteous only makes you look silly.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You do realize that solar is free and that the beverage manufacturers don't want to deal with cleaning, bottling, and reusing the glass. You can choose to buy beer in glass today. The lobbies from companies such as Coke, Pepsico, Cadbury/Schweppes are so powerful there is little to be done. My button was pushed a bit this morning, sorry. Why does the government subsidize a product, tobacco that kills people? For the tax money they get ya think. Same thing with liquor. Think of how many more people would be alive today with less heartache in their lives if prohibition had stayed as a law. I very recently had a friend who was killed along with two others by a 16 year old under the influence of alcohol. He'll be tried as a minor meaning he'll walk away from this someday. Sorry for ranting

Onxce you wrap your mind around the idea of Washington as a national chamber of commerce/mafia things fall into place. Money always floats to the top.

 

[driphoney]

You do realize that solar is free and that the beverage manufacturers don't want to deal with cleaning, bottling, and reusing the glass. You can choose to buy beer in glass today. The lobbies from companies such as Coke, Pepsico, Cadbury/Schweppes are so powerful there is little to be done.

Beer, Wine, Liquor PAC Contributions for 2010

Food and Beverage PAC Contributions for 2010

To give some contrast to the above:

Media Contributions for 2010

Lawyers Contributions for 2010

Oil & Gas Contributions for 2010


This is an off-year election year, and I was too lazy to dig back. On Open Secrets you can look back through past years and the numbers jump during major campaign years, and the amounts shift depending on which side is in power and stated positions of the candidates.

I'm not sure, but I think beverage bottlers have been more concerned with transportation costs of glass, which is why they shifted to cans, then plastics.

ETA: I think this list is really the best to do a comparison to see just how the food and non-alcohol beverage contributors stack up the the "heavy hitters". Not even close.
Heavy Hitters List

 

[driphoney]

Polypropylene is. Dacron is. "Polyester" which is actually Polyethylene terephthalate ( "PET" or "PETE" carries the symbol http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e2/Resin-identification-code-1-PETE.svg/200px-Resin-identification-code-1-PETE.svg.png and is commonly recycled) is. All the olefins and aromatics are. Synthetic Acrylic · Aramid (Twaron · Kevlar · Technora · Nomex) · Carbon (Tenax) · Derclon · Microfiber · Modacrylic · Nylon · Olefin · Polyester · Polyethylene (Dyneema · Spectra) · Spandex · Vinalon · Zylon

Rayon is not since it uses cellulose as a feedstock.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyester

You make my point. I think people don't realize just how much plastics envelope their lives.

 

[3113]

Think of how many more people would be alive today with less heartache in their lives if prohibition had stayed as a law.

Um, actually, it was because of all the heartache in people's lives that prohibition stopped being the law. Are we conveniently forgetting about the mob running whole cities? Corruption and gang killings? How about this--when booze was outlawed, it was made illegally in stills and bathtubs and such. As it was illegal, there was no quality control to make sure you weren't drinking gasoline or other toxic elements, nor was there any age limit on who you could sell it to (it was illegal to sell it at all, so why not to kids?) so little kids were dying from being poisoned by this illegal alcohol which was being sold to them.

Making alcohol legal allowed the government to (1) institute quality control, so what people drink doesn't kill them (outside of drunk driving--which IS illegal!), and (2) make sure liquor isn't sold to minors (which, again, IS illegal).

What I'm saying is that there are already laws in place that should have stopped this drunk driver--he should not have been able to get the alcohol, and he should not have been allowed to drive. But that didn't stop him, did it? Why do you imagine making the booze illegal would have stopped him either? Certain drugs are illegal--has that put an end to drug addicts?

Ultimately, ending prohibition helped cut down if not end mob violence and power in the U.S.--and that saved heartache. And it has cut down many kids (if not this one) getting alcohol--again, cutting down on heartache, and drunk driving laws exist (like bartenders taking keys and such) because alcohol is legal, and I'm sure that's saved many people's lives if not your friend's. I see nothing to prove that what happened would not have happened if alcohol was illegal. Only that the kid would have been on an illegal substance when he committed this crime.

And what does this have to do with outlawing plastic bags?

 

[R. Richard]

You do realize that solar is free and that the beverage manufacturers don't want to deal with cleaning, bottling, and reusing the glass. You can choose to buy beer in glass today. The lobbies from companies such as Coke, Pepsico, Cadbury/Schweppes are so powerful there is little to be done. My button was pushed a bit this morning, sorry. Why does the government subsidize a product, tobacco that kills people? For the tax money they get ya think. Same thing with liquor. Think of how many more people would be alive today with less heartache in their lives if prohibition had stayed as a law. I very recently had a friend who was killed along with two others by a 16 year old under the influence of alcohol. He'll be tried as a minor meaning he'll walk away from this someday. Sorry for ranting

I lived in a state where they grow tobacco. With the current price levels, a person can make a living off as little as one acre of tobacco growing right. The politicians from tobacco states will vote for or against anything, as long as they get votes for their tobacco subsidy in return. Tobacco isn't abvout collecting taxes, it's about subsidies and votes.

 

[Guest]

You make my point. I think people don't realize just how much plastics envelope their lives.

Agreed.

My hubby's replacement aorta is made of Dacron.

 

[trysail]

You make my point. I think people don't realize just how much plastics envelope their lives.

You are, of course, absolutely correct. Petrochemicals are ubiquitous. John Q. has no more idea where the gasoline in his tank comes from or the pervasiveness of petrochemicals than my grandmother. The feedstock for plastics comes from both petroleum and natural gas.

Until six weeks ago, there were all of maybe 100,000 people who knew what a riser or a BOP was.

 

[Byron In Exile]

My hubby's replacement aorta is made of Dacron.

But... how is it fair to future generations who will have to endure the existence of that Dacron aorta for possibly thousands of years?

 

[Guest]

But... how is it fair to future generations who will have to endure the existence of that Dacron aorta for possibly thousands of years?

Fuck 'em.

 

[TxRad]

But... how is it fair to future generations who will have to endure the existence of that Dacron aorta for possibly thousands of years?

Rinse it off and reuse it.