Promised a friend

[its Leslie]

Hmmm how to state it so no one inserts their own meaning and ruins the point of this post in the first place.

I came to Lit in the first place as a fluke. A friend advised me that if the intolerance of ICQ (home to NO Cyber or any useful chat for that matter), was getting to me, then Lit might be more interesting.

I found the chat rooms first. I liked the Stories and Authors room enough I was in there for like hmmm a solid month. I also wrote a string of quick stories (all of which were liked by the people I knew in the chat room, although I personally think they were just average stories).

But I like forums more so. I like to compose a thought, post it, and see what others think. I do this on nuumerous forums on numerous sites on numerous interests.

If I like a forum at all, I will be active on it. If I don't like a forum, I will of course abruptly disappear. I have never been banned anywhere before. I never stay somewhere where I am wanted that little, that it gets that bad actually.

I gravitated logically to the Authors Hangout.
I don't see myself as even being remotely in the same league as my heroes. Men such as Tolkien, Herbert, Clarke, Azimov, Sagan.
But I AM a writer, regardless of how ordinary in my capacity.

So here I sit at a junction.
Do I stay or do I go.

I want to say so many things. But I have no desire to intentionally piss off people. It accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I want the Author's Hangout to be just that a hangout for authors, nothing more.
Hang a caption out on the entrance if it pleases you. Let it say whatever. In the end I never read it, and it is entirely likely it matters not what is said there.

I am not interested in any of the other forums. None, not at all. I have zero interest in them. If my comment is going to be made, it will be done in here. Regardless of what it might be.

Either I am among friends, or I am NOT among friends.

I won't waste my life in here if there is no reason to do so. Time is precious, and I could be spending it on a myriad other activities.

So that is it basically.

Post a restriction on topics if it pleases you. I don't care. Post a restriction on specific topics, and again I don't really care.
I care not one whit to limit the comments of my friends. Or at least my friends are not used to being handed scripts on what they may or may not say to me. And I sure am not interested in following one myself.

I am only here because we are all...
A authors generally
B not supposedly stuck up about matters directly connected to sex
C not afraid to post our thoughts publicly

If my fellow authors can't handle what I say, which I say frankly, because I don't hide behind vague comments, then either they need to examine if they want to stay, or they have to accept I might tell them they are not worth it themselves and leave myself.

The world is not Lit Author's Hangout.
I like coming here, but I won't miss it if that is what is to be eh.

In closing.......

Before any start assuming greater worth than they deserve (and there are plenty that actually do like to assume they are more important than they are).
This post is aimed at no one person. No one person has inspired me to write this. There was no one comment responsible for me feeling this way this morning. No one person has annoyed me specifically. There is no one specific result expected from this post, besides the obvious.
If that message is not obvious enough, sorry I don't intend to spelll it out any further.

This is either my last thread, or the beginning of a something more akin to a hangout, and less in line with a straight jacket eh.

 

[damppanties]

Well, that was pretty straightforward. I thought about not replying to this thread, but then am doing it anyway. Please take this as I intend it to be taken - with a lot of respect.

I want to say so many things. But I have no desire to intentionally piss off people. It accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I am sorry to say this, but you do piss off many people. I agree that it accomplishes nothing. So why don't you try and be a little less aggressive while posting your comments in here. They are worthy comments, but their worth is usually lost because people don't like the way you say it. I have never had any interaction with you before, but I have been here a while and seen many people have problems with the way you state your opinions. Your opinions are yours and you have a right to have them, even the right to express them in any way you chose. But do you choose to express them in such a way that some people might have objection to it?

This is a place where people know you only through your words. Nothing else. Think about what words you want to use to represent you.

Yes, assertiveness is fine, frankness is fine, but is that all you are? Are you not understanding? Are you not fair? Are you not forgiving? Show that part of you too.

This is either my last thread, or the beginning of a something more akin to a hangout, and less in line with a straight jacket eh.

I hope its not the last.

-DP.

 

[its Leslie]

Thanks damppanties

I am me just me, not sure how to be anything other than me really.

Spent most of my life being the me everyone was more comfortable with.
Trouble is, most of the people I know only want me to be the silly goofy idiotic me.
Most get uncomfortable around the actual me. I think I intimidate them. It's hard to avoid.

The real me is, well, how do I say it, shit there is no way to say it though.
I have been reading text books now for 30 years.
Side effect, I know so much more than is common for most people.

But........

I can't fix your car, I can't wire your house. Don't ask me to repair your plumbing. I don't know what the numbers mean on the bottom of baseball cards. I barely understand my computer.
Man the things I know that I don't know.

But I am an assertive person. Opinionated. Aggressive.

I am a student of Sun Tzu. Everything to me is a challenge.

I always tackle a conversation like a wargame.

 

[BigTexan]

Leslie, I don't want to fight with you. Like DP I almost didn't post a reply to this thread. But then I re-read it and thought about it. I hope you will take my comments as I intend them. I will try to be clear.

Side effect, I know so much more than is common for most people.

This statement, I believe, sums up one of the big reasons people get a little bent out of shape about your posts. This attitude shows through nearly every post you make. When I said you were arrogant this is exactly what I meant.

Consider this: There are roughly 6.2 Billion people in this world. If you do happen to know more than "most" then there are still 3.0 billion people who know more than you.

If, like you said, you have gained your knowledge predominantly from textbooks, then your knowledge is as flawed and useless as those textbooks. I spent six years in college, learning from textbooks. Then I got out in the real world and spent a year unlearning EVERYTHING I learned in college because it was wrong. And no I didn't go to a bad college, I went to a very prestigious university.

My suggestion, which you can choose to ignore. Stop thinking of yourself as smarter than anyone else. Albert Einstein was without a doubt smarter than "most" everyone around him. Yet when you hear people who knew him talk about him the one thing they all eventually say is (paraphrased). "He respected everyone."

I am a student of Sun Tzu. Everything to me is a challenge.

I always tackle a conversation like a wargame.

This second comment also stands out like a red flag to me. Why treat a conversation like a wargame? If I'm talking to someone and they act this way I'm going to dismiss them and their ideas. Why? Because if they aggressively try to "win" the conversation then they must be wrong. "Right" ideas don't need to be forced. In a forum of highly intelligent people, such as the authors hangout, they will win or lose by their own merit.

I welcome you to stay.

If you want people to be more accepting of the "real" you then I suggest mellowing your attitude a little. Realize that while you may be smarter than "most" people, you may not be smarter than most of the people here.

Also stop trying to "win" every conversation. This is a juvenile attitude. Yeah many grown men and women do this. Hell, even my own wife does this to a certain extent. But nonetheless it shows a lack of maturity. Conversations are not games. They are not wars. They are not compititions.

Lastly, learn to appologize when something you've said is taken wrong, or when you shouldn't have said it. "I'm sorry." goes a long way toward making people more accepting of your ideas and comments.

Now for my last comment, before I shut up. I've lurked here for a long while and watched the threads people have posted. I don't think you have ever started a thread any of us would consider grossly off-topic. Why you have chosen to exaggerate what KM and I and a few others were saying is beyond me. Perhaps it was your competitive nature showing through. No one wants to straight jacket this forum. No one except you has even suggested that. We don't want it to devolve into a "Give me feedback" forum, nor into another GB but we don't want to censor anyone either. We, like you, want it to be an open place where we can go to enjoy open friendly conversations (not wars) with other Authors.

Well anyway, I've said my piece. As far as I'm concerned you are welcome to stay and you are welcome to leave. Your choice. But like you pointed out, I am not really very important to this forum. But all of this is my opinion.

BigTexan

 

[its Leslie]

I AM smarter than most.

Yes that is arrogant "sounding". Especially to those that are NOT smart.

It is inevitable.

No it is not entirely based on text book based learning.

Part of it is shit happens circumstance. Part of it is the good fortune to have been born in a time and place that is condicive to learning.

Line up 10 100 1000 1 million what ever. Some will be smarter than the others. Some will be the low end some will be at the high end. Most will be slightly past middle.

I am not saying I am THE smartest. Or even able to get the attention of Mensa.

But after 20 plus years stewing, mulling, and generally playing dumb, to make less interested in intellectual excellence individuals feel less uncomfortable, when I make that particular trait in them apparent, I have decided NO they chose to be what they are. I chose the path of knowledge, I earned it.

I AM excrutiatingly expert in more fields that I can expect anyone here to indulge (so I won't bother to list them).

I will not play the dope. I will not shy away from being me. It is my fault I am so damn smart, but I am not ashamed to be so damned smart. It's not a crime.

My wargame analogy was perhaps not entirely fitting.
I attack the problem from all sides. I exploit opportunity, I leave no stone unmoved.

In respect to Texans comments, which were well stated though, I am sorry if my zeal sometimes causes ill feelings.

Remember, I have never said I was "better" or "wiser" than most.
I am only unwilling to be ashamed of my personal accomplishments intellectually.

 

[wildsweetone]

if my approval means anything to any of you,

i appreciate that you're being considerate adults in your postings and i also appreciate that this is a discussion. thank you

keep it up, i like what's happening so far.

 

[ronde]

First, may I offer a story my Dad still tells me on occasion.

A man was driving through a small town and stopped to talk with an old man outside the grocery store.

"What kind of people live in this town? The last town I lived in, the people were all hateful and unfriendly."

The old man scratched his head and said, "Well, that's what you're likely to find here, too."

An hour later, another traveler stopped to talk to the same old man.

"What kind of people live in this town? The last town I lived in, the people were all warm and helpful."

The old man smiled and said, "Well, that's what you're likely to find here, too."

The point is, you usually find what you're looking for, no matter where you go.

That said, my experience on this board is that one can debate to his/her heart's content, as long as the debate is just that. I will discuss writing with anyone as long as the discussion is logical and informed. Should the discussion become an arguement unincumbered by fact, I will choose to defer to the greater ego and bow out.

If you have the knowledge and experience you profess, then I can learn a few things from you. Keep posting.

 

[Quasimodem]

Leslie,

Since you are not about to remove my appendix, repair my car, or handle my investments, I am willing to take you at your word. I will accept your claim that you are smarter than most.

At least, you acknowledge that in making such a statement, you will sound ‘arrogant.' You even grant that this impression of arrogance will be ‘inevitable.'

Perhaps, I am wrong. I should rather have others point out my intelligence - or, if need be, the lack of it - than bring up the topic myself. No doubt, you know best, regarding the necessity of making this revelation.

No one here is forcing you to be less intelligent than you can be. In fact, were that their wish, I fail to see how they could accomplish their goal. What several may find objectionable, is your force feeding them with your opinion.

BTW: Few people freely "chose" to be whatever they become, intellectually. Partially that is predetermined by heredity, partially it is encouraged within their environment, and partially it develops through their own endeavours.

Few set their own limitations, by choosing: "Hey, I want to grow up to be a dolt!"

At least, there are none that I have met.

 

[its Leslie]

Probably part of my trouble Quasi, is I might be partly transplanting real world troubles into the forum.

I genuinely DO have people around me in 3d land that exhibit obvious signs, that they just are not prepared to accept, that Leslie just might know more than they do.

Problem is, it's the guys I routinely hangout with.

It's made all to apparent when I run pencil and paper type role playing games, specifically science heavy settings.
Half the things I say to them, that are straight out of ordinary science books, go right over their collective heads.

These are the same individuals, that will look me straight in the eye, and chuckle when I insinuate, they are not as smart as they think they are.

But I have not helped matters. In my teens I was constantly being told, "don't talk so smart Leslie and you will have more friends".
Alas maybe I took that advice to seriously.
When I play rolegames as a player I am usually quite into the part. I don't resort to the stereotypical muscle bound moron with the big weapon massive armour and death dealing attacks.
In the process though, I am usually the humour element.

A case of a bad idea that has come back to haunt me.

I generaly AM the life of the party. I usually AM the glue that holds the group together.

As long as I am just stupid funny Leslie.

Which is why the rebellion.

I like the real me, even if the real me is annoyingly intelligent.

 

[Robin Slater]

about intelligence and respect

While the points you make, Leslie, are interesting, you have had very few responses. You appear so confrontational, perhaps possible friends may be avoiding this thread.

You seem to demand respect. Im most cases, respect must be earned. You then can command respect.

There are several contributors on this site that reach out to fellow authors with offers of help of all sorts. They are a tremendous resource here. We all respect their obvious intelligence. They also have big hearts.

I enjoy your threads. They are so funny. I hope that is your intent.

If my addy seems unfamiliar, I have followed the lead of others who use one name on the BB and another as an author's pen name.

 

[damppanties]

Wait a moment, am I getting this right? Do you actually think people disagree with you because they are intimidated by you and/or think that you are smarter and that rubs them up the wrong way?

Ok, I think I understand a little about what you're trying to say here about smartness but I still don't see the problem. Ok, you think you're smart. So? You probably are. Good. And so what? Do you act intolerantly with people who are not as smart as you are?

originally posted by its Leslie
I like the real me, even if the real me is annoyingly intelligent.

I'm ready to accept the 'annoyingly intelligent you', but the 'belligerent you'... not so ready.

-DP.

 

[BigTexan]

Leslie, I'm not saying you aren't intelligent, but consider this; it might help you understand why some people don't react to you favorably.

Truly intelligent people don't have to tell people they are intelligent. It shows in their actions and their words.

People who tell others they are intelligent, usually aren't.

You can stand on a mount and profess whatever you want and most people won't believe you until you roll up your sleeves and prove it.

Several years ago I had a chance meeting with Poul Anderson. You may or may not know of him, but he was a famous SF writer who spoke at a science festival I attended. We sat next to each other on the plane flying back from the festival.

He was one of the most clear, consise, and intelligent people I have ever met. Yet he was humble and gracious to those around him. By the end of the three hour flight he had everyone in first class feeling great. It was his death last year that inspired me to start writing. I am not, nor will I ever be in his class. But maybe if I work hard enough, I'll be able to pass along some of what he gave me during that short period when I felt like we were old friends.

My point: If you are what you say you are, then just be yourself and it will shine through. It is the truly "smart" people who are humble. Arrogance is usually a sign that the person is much less than he thinks.

BigTexan

 

[Svenskaflicka]

"It's amazing how intelligent people are so stupid."

Don't remember who said it, but I think it's a clever thing to say. Intelligent people have a tendency to pat themselves on the back and go a bit overboard with the pride they take in their own intelligence - and so they become arrogant against those that are less intelligent than them. I dislike this, and try to control that tendency in myself as much as I can.

Leslie, you remind me so much of a Swede - showing off that you know how arrogant and aggressive you are, yet with a tone that suggests that you're actually proud of being arrogant and aggressive, because these characteristics prove that you are "smarter" and "more honest" than others.

I think honesty is a good thing only when it does something good. If I tell my best friend that I honestly think that yellow doesn't become her, I'm not being "brave enough to tell her the truth", I'm just abusing my freedom of speech in such a way that it hurts my friend's feelings, but doesn't do much good. We all have the right to say whatever we want, but we should use that right and not abuse it. Don't be unnecessairily honest!

And if you really ARE smarter than others - then you don't have the need to show off and tell others that you are smart. A truly smart person can be told of the way he/she talks/acts, not by him/her telling everyone that he/she is smart.

As for Sun Tzu's ideal of betrayal and warfare... I prefer the mildness of Mohandas Mahatma Gandhi.

 

[its Leslie]

In a way I am here primarily due to the intellect of those others on the forum.

As you say, it is self evident when you are smart.

In a way my frustration stems from the simple fact, that often those of lesser intellect are not as gracious where you say they might be though. not always, but it does happen.

No I don't go around strutting as it sounds. No mostly I am here complaining, among my peers, due to the ordinary persons inability to handle me, just being me.

I have one friend I permit some leeway. We all know persons that can say a thing, and it's funny, where another would be promptly told to fuck off.
He has an expression "blah blah blah insert big word here blah blah blah". It's funny when he says it.

When I speak, I use a volcabulary that is rich in words I have mastered over the years (assuming my posts are indicative of my manner of speech is an error, I am a lousy typist in generally).
I am a much better orator than writer.

As they say, a person has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk though.
Well I can walk the walk, and talk the talk. But I have a hard time finding anyone that can walk where I walk and usually can't understand what I say additionally. It does tend to complicate things.

I left ICQ more or less over this matter.
I experienced persons that did not really want to chat.
They wanted people to message them, they wanted the attention those messages represented, but they were unwilling to reciprocate (has anyone else experienced this?).

It mattered not what I suggested as subject material.
Weather, housework, children, work, careers, education, life expectations, hobbies, spouses, friends, all seemingly common topics.
But that gets real old real quick.
So I would mention such interesting things as did you know the Great Sphinx is the sole construct at Giza that is water eroded?
Dead silence.
I would mention how intriguing it was to think of a world without electricity and how it would alter life.
Dead silence.

I am used to people being intimidated. I talk alot, and in listening to me talk, it is inevitable, I am usually way ahead of most people.

I have never told a person, god you are stupid. I have never told a person, gee don't you wish you were as smart as me.

I am not overly worried that I sound excrutiatingly educated. I just wish people would not take out their discomfort on their self evident lack of knowledge on me.

I have no piece of paper acrediting me to all these wonderous manitudes of knowledge. Fortunately my life does not require them. If I needed to earn a living through my knowledge, I suppose it would matter.

Prove it is a common refrain. Maybe that is basically it in a nutshell

Think I will do that.
Just closed my woodshop, and won't have much to do this winter.
So I will write up something, and see if I am right, or insane.

 

[BigTexan]

... did you know the Great Sphinx is the sole construct at Giza that is water eroded?

I watched that special on the Discover Channel just the other day. It is an intriging theory, but a disputed one. If it is true that the Sphinx is water eroded, as postulated, then it does indeed raise some very interesting questions about the age of the Sphinx and who (which civilization) actually created it and why.

... I would mention how intriguing it was to think of a world without electricity and how it would alter life.
...

Uh, actually, without electricity there would be no life, at least not in the form we know it. Living cells communicate through a complex process of electro-chemical reactions. Take away electricity and the cells would quickly die. Even photosynthisis, which is where the chain of life begins, relies on electrical processes.

Also, without electricity, even simple chemical reactions would be impossible. It is the movement of electrons from one atom to another that allows for atoms to bond and form complex molecules. So, without electricity, there would be no complex molecules and, as far as I know, there is no "life" made up of strickly elements.

Of course we could delve deeper into this subject and discuss nuclear fusion where free electrons break atoms to form different atoms and in doing so releases a great deal of energy. This also wouldn't be possible without electrons moving and as such would be impossible without electricity. Without the power released by nuclear fusion (the sun) no life would exist.

Uh, sorry, I just thought I'd chime in those two interesting subjects.

BigTexan

 

[its Leslie]

Hmmm we need a red star thingy icon something or other....

A red star for Texan for gratuitous excess in taking an idea waaaaaay past what I thought anyone might heheh.

Actually I was only thiking of turning off the power and it's effect on our society's infra structure heheh.

On the Sphinx, though, the usual lament is show us the proof of the civilization that created the Sphinx if not Khufu....

Hmm sorry not my problem you egyptologists heheh that's your
cross to bear.

The fact the face though is not even vaguely Egyptian was proven out through the expert analysis of a leading criminal face sketch artist in the States.
The fact that water erosion and wind erosion are as easy to tell apart as black and white helps the case.
That we don't currently have any archeological evidence of the people that likely made the Sphinx some 9000 years ago does not eliminate the simple obvious detail, it's there all the same.

Then again, we don't have any idea who made the temple at Balbek in Lebanon, or for that matter how they even managed to move the three enormous stone blocks.

 

[wildsweetone]

it rains in Egypt?

omg i never knew that!

 

[its Leslie]

It wasn't always a desert silly heheh.

Actually it hasn't been wet there for 9000 years (give or take a few). This is the reason why the Giza plateau has no other constructs that have been subjected to the effects of prolonged precipitation.

 

[wildsweetone]

annual rainfall in egypt: 30.48mm/1.2in

may as well be non-existent for all the good that tiny amount would do.

i wish i'd seen the Discovery Channel program. i'll keep my eyes peeled in case they repeat it here.

was it the Sphinx's nose that was damaged because of the rainfall 9000 years ago? i thought its nose was damaged in more recent history.

god my gen. knowledge sucks grrr

BT gets the red star and i get the dunces hat can it be green please?

 

[its Leslie]

The nose was shot off thanks to Napoleon's troops and boredom I believe.

The program we are all likely referring to was also hosted by Chuck Heston.

 

[wildsweetone]

I have written that down on my list of 'things to see' Thanks Leslie.

 

[Weird Harold]

The nose was shot off thanks to Napoleon's troops and boredom I believe.

I think that's a myth. At least the common perception of bored troops sniping at the Sphinxes nose with rifles is wrong, because rifle bullets just aren't big enough to do that kind of damage -- even in large numbers. It would have taken cannon fire to destroy the nose, and an extrodinarily accurate cannoneer to do it without destroying the other features too.

 

[its Leslie]

Yes I have heard that it might be a myth as well, I was unsure about mentioning it.

Can't recall anything more accurate at the moment. I will pester my grognard buddies about it (or wondering will drive me to distraction).

 

[Quasimodem]

I cannot confirm or deny the accuracy of the information about the Sphinx's nose. I can add insight into who promulgated the story.

I saw it in a "Ripley's Believe It Or Not" panel in a newspaper, circa 1960.

Can't say I believed it, but I have just demonstrated that I remembered it.

That's the problem with bad data.

 

[its Leslie]

Ok according to my sources and with coroboration with an actual web site on the Sphinx, it turns out the Turks were in fact to blame (not Napoloeons troops).

Although it appears to have been the handiwork of soldiers all the same.