Professional Women in the Workplace

[Mr. Mann]

Since lurking and joining the forum here, I've be really impressed by the extremely lucid, intelligent, and truly insightful posts by the women here.

I love smart, strong, assertive women.

I want to gain some insight into working relationships with women.

There seems to be sort of a dual dynamic going on. On the one hand, you have your gender related role expectations. Women want men to act like men... and men want women to act like women. However, in a professional setting, you also have seniority issues, informal pecking order, and other social and professional dynamics at play.

If I have a disagreement with a male "superior", I can be blunt, direct, and generally have it out with him... and then we shrug it off. In fact, this type of assertiveness is seen as a desired trait.

But you can't do that with a female superior because there is this sense that you can't talk to a women THAT WAY. And.. if you do, there developes some sort of a lingering issue. The relationship and dynamic can change.

I get the sense that there are trust issues at play, as well.

Quite frankly, the rules are different. I'm all for women in the workplace, etc. I love working with women. I also recognize that there are different personalities and everyone is different.

But on the other hand, there are general commonalities with men and women... and I sense that there is some fundamental dynamic with women in the professional workplace that I haven't quite figured out yet.

I think it has something to do with the general dominance vs. submission thing... but not quite.

I dunno. There is something there to figure out, and I haven't been able to sort it out. I am hoping that some of you will be able to shed some light in this.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'm not comfortable with working for women superiors. I'm much happier in construction where such things are pretty much unheard of.

 

[Vixandra]

I've been the supervisor and from what I've seen, the guys who worked for me had no problem talking to me in "that way" if they were unhappy.

Now personally- I loathe working for a solid female chain of command. Drives me up a bloody wall. Especially the drama involved, though that could have been because I worked in a female command.
Give me a man for my boss or my boss' boss and I'm much happier. I understand men better then women, which is sad but I accept it.

 

[Kajira Callista]

i want vixandra to be my boss purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[babiesmiles]

I work both with males and females .

I am a lawyer and in my law firm I am an executive as well .

I always applied the so called " situational approach " . Every person is different apart from the gender , I work with very sensitive males and with very hard determinated women . So in my opinion there is not a " right " approach for everyone but a relative one based on the personality of the interlocutor .
Some need continuous encouragement others need challenges beyond their limits, both men and women .

We all are different ( thank God !!) and we all have a personal view of interpersonal relationships at work . In my opinion the secret of good relations which carry good results is the full respect of the individual peculiarities, limits and strenghts .

 

[Vixandra]

i want vixandra to be my boss purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Really? LOL

Yeah, I'm utterly sexy in my work slacks and shirt, Magnum boots laced up tight and ready to send ambulances to people in need. Go me, LOL.

 

[raven2]

Really? LOL

Yeah, I'm utterly sexy in my work slacks and shirt, Magnum boots laced up tight and ready to send ambulances to people in need. Go me, LOL.

LOL I'm sure you are. I ride ambulances also and there is nothing more sexy than slacks shirts and boots when you have been up all night with calls.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Really? LOL

Yeah, I'm utterly sexy in my work slacks and shirt, Magnum boots laced up tight and ready to send ambulances to people in need. Go me, LOL.

*mew*

 

[Blushing Bottom]

I have charge of a Forensic Psych Unit...and I have more bosses than clients, most of them women.

My subordinates comprise mostly of men which works well for me. I have little difficulty encouraging them to rise to the occasion.

The job is stressful and pregnant with responsibility. I am responsible for the wellbeing of a large number of people daily and learned early on that agression is often no more than assertion pushed to its limit.

I love my job....I love my job.

 

[raven2]

I have charge of a Forensic Psych Unit...and I have more bosses than clients, most of them women.

My subordinates comprise mostly of men which works well for me. I have little difficulty encouraging them to rise to the occasion.

The job is stressful and pregnant with responsibility. I am responsible for the wellbeing of a large number of people daily and learned early on that agression is often no more than assertion pushed to its limit.

I love my job....I love my job.

I am sure you do, but I also know that that type of situation can really be hard some times.

 

[brioche]

I have seen many female principals in the past few years. Some have been great and some have been pictures of incompetence.
I have worked for three. They were all good in their own way.
The first supported her staff and did her best to help me. We still correspond.
The next principal was a man and screwed me over and tried to sabotage my career.
The next one was very blunt and strict and kept the kids in line. She had very high expectations but acknowledged my efforts to meet them. I liked her.
The one I have now has high expectations of herself and is waiting for me to prove myself. She is the consummate professional and is always on the ball.
I'm pretty happy.
Though I am working pretty hard. Which is why I don't post as much.

 

[FurryFury]

My last two bosses were as different as night and day. Now I'm "self employed" and my boss is very demanding, nothing is ever good enough for her! LOL!

One got in her position through hard word and rose to that level because she was conscious, competent and caring in what she did. When she left I felt bereft. She cared about her employees, herself, the library and the patrons. She is a warm and giving person who can spot what needs to be done and delegates well but does not micro manage. I miss the atmosphere she and other co-workers made of where I worked. Back when I worked for her, I loved her, respected and admired her, but we were not close friends because it was business. I'm having lunch with her tomorrow and consider her a good friend now.

The last one I worked for was a total evil incompetent bitch. She got where she is by politics and the most illogical manipulation you've ever heard of but she can't do the job worth a shit. In the year I worked under her she did something that she should have been fired for at least once a month sometimes more often! She is just mean as hell, ugly, and I dream of her being tortured before leaving this world so it can be a better place. She practically dismantled all the programs and services the patrons loved in the first year! Our statistics went way down because of her and of course she hated me for no reason I could discern. I genuinely tried to do my best for her. She is irrational. She speaks with a lisp or slur. I fucking hate her. I could NOT get her to listen or compromise on anything. I'd be happy to dance on her grave. When her "probationary" year was up and she was allowed to stay, given the way she tried to do everything she could to make me uncomfortable, I knew I'd have to leave. I waiting until she gave an order that made no sense and which made it impossible to actually do my job. I left at a bad time for her. Good for me!

Fury

 

[raven2]

My last two bosses were as different as night and day. Now I'm "self employed" and my boss is very demanding, nothing is ever good enough for her! LOL!

One got in her position through hard word and rose to that level because she was conscious, competent and caring in what she did. When she left I felt bereft. She cared about her employees, herself, the library and the patrons. She is a warm and giving person who can spot what needs to be done and delegates well but does not micro manage. I miss the atmosphere she and other co-workers made of where I worked. Back when I worked for her, I loved her, respected and admired her, but we were not close friends because it was business. I'm having lunch with her tomorrow and consider her a good friend now.

The last one I worked for was a total evil incompetent bitch. She got where she is by politics and the most illogical manipulation you've ever heard of but she can't do the job worth a shit. In the year I worked under her she did something that she should have been fired for at least once a month sometimes more often! She is just mean as hell, ugly, and I dream of her being tortured before leaving this world so it can be a better place. She practically dismantled all the programs and services the patrons loved in the first year! Our statistics went way down because of her and of course she hated me for no reason I could discern. I genuinely tried to do my best for her. She is irrational. She speaks with a lisp or slur. I fucking hate her. I could NOT get her to listen or compromise on anything. I'd be happy to dance on her grave. When her "probationary" year was up and she was allowed to stay, given the way she tried to do everything she could to make me uncomfortable, I knew I'd have to leave. I waiting until she gave an order that made no sense and which made it impossible to actually do my job. I left at a bad time for her. Good for me!

Fury

Gee Fury, You are really pissed with this one. That lisp and/or slur must really make her bad. How big is your RED Button with her? GLad you are away from her, though.

 

[FurryFury]

Gee Fury, You are really pissed with this one. That lisp and/or slur must really make her bad. How big is your RED Button with her? GLad you are away from her, though.

She's evil and toxic and should be slowly killed so she is in great pain for along time. I mean why wait for hell, they might drop the ball. I want the video so I can enjoy her torment over and over.

*nods a lot*

But no, she is still in charge making folks unhappy and making my library less wonderful. *grr*

Fury

 

[raven2]

She's evil and toxic and should be slowly killed so she is in great pain for along time. I mean why wait for hell, they might drop the ball. I want the video so I can enjoy her torment over and over.

*nods a lot*

But no, she is still in charge making folks unhappy and making my library less wonderful. *grr*

Fury

Really sorry!

 

[FurryFury]

Really sorry!

It's not your fault! *L*

It takes a lot to get me to dislike someone. She worked damned hard at it.

I don't believe rudeness or incompetence should be rewarded, particularly at work.

Fury

 

[babiesmiles]

LOL I'm sure you are. I ride ambulances also and there is nothing more sexy than slacks shirts and boots when you have been up all night with calls.

awwww hun dont talk about ambulance right now , I had my first two rides on them few time ago and I am still scared as hell .....

 

[jadefirefly]

I work for a company that, with the exception of the two owners, their son, and perhaps a half-dozen assorted others (all but one of which are in corporate-level management), has a workforce made up entirely of women.

Generally, I dislike and mistrust most other women. Most women I have worked with, or were forced to interact with while in school, were shallow, superficial, self-centered bitches. (Don't think I think I'm anything special -- I have my shallow, superficial, self-centered bitchy weeks too. )

I actually had one boss one time that would allow mistakes to be made around the lab, when the actual manager wasn't around, and blame them on me. So long as they happened in areas that I was trained and certified to work in, the manager believed her. She was such a bitch, I eventually wound up walking from that job.

I've worked in restaurants with women who felt they were too good to be working there; I've worked in jewelry stores with women who felt I wasn't good enough to be working there. I've worked in fast food with women who treated me like an idiot, despite my probably having a years experience on them in fast food and being five years older than them.

Until six months ago, I had never onced worked in an environment with women where I was comfortable, could actually talk to my boss, and was overall happy. All that, thankfully, changed in September. I absolutely love the boss I have now. The other girls I work with are all as equally quirky, fun, silly and strange as I am; my boss actually -wants- these qualities, so for once I'm not being treated as if I fell off the short bus on the way to work.

I can say that, like the OP said, when there's male bosses you certainly can just sort of wade in, vent or rant, and when all is said and done there's no hard feelings. With female bosses, there isn't so much venting or ranting, but I feel that the environment is more... open? I feel that if I have a problem with someone or something, my boss is more willing to sit down, listen to me, talk to me about what's wrong, and then try to fix it; and even come back later to see if it's gotten better. She goes beyond just making sure the place runs, and makes sure the place runs AND that everyone is happy.

For once in my life, I gotta give props to the chicks!
(Can you tell I love my job? )

 

[brioche]

In my previous position, my principal called me in to tell me that my report cards were not up to snuff and I would have to redo them.
She wasn't aware that it was my first time working with this system - if she had been she would have been nicer, because for a first try they were pretty good - and was rather brutal.
I tend to be self possessed but was actually sick and sleep deprived - which she didn't know, because I am the sort to suck it up - and finding out that I would have to start all over again on my report cards and do them better in less time - well, I cried.
The thing was, I then couldn't STOP crying for at least 5 very uncomforatble minutes. I was sitting there, saying in between sobs, "Why can't I stop crying?" and she was saying, "I don't know!"
She was completely out of her element. She actually let me do a lot less on the revisions because I cried. But then, she also insisted on having the (male) vice-principal sit in on the next two meetings with me, until she had reassured herself I wasn't going to fall apart every time I was criticized.
It was embarrassing, but I think it would have been much, much worse if it had been a man.

 

[Mr. Mann]

Interesting.

So... what are some things that a generally typical assertive male could do in order to improve their comunication and professional working relationships with female bosses, coworkers, and subordinates?

 

[Blushing Bottom]

Whisper.

Women adore men who whisper. Maintain a soft even tone when communicating with women. You'll be amazed at the responses you'll get.

Interesting.

So... what are some things that a generally typical assertive male could do in order to improve their comunication and professional working relationships with female bosses, coworkers, and subordinates?

 

[Mr. Mann]

uh... I *really* like that idea.

But then again... I'm trying to work with these women, not seduce them all... or have them get all weird because they think I am trying to seduce them....



Could you maybe expound on that a little?

 

[FurryFury]

Just talk to them in a calm voice about whatever the hell is going on. Use your instincts on when to shut up, those are invaluable. (I've had to bite my tongue a lot lately and it was ALWAYS the right decision.)

If the woman is a useless and/or evil bitch it will show. In that case there is nothing you can do but keep on as well as you can in spite of her.

Act nice and interested in her as a person, ("Hey, Joan, how was that play {or whatever the hell you know she is into} this weekend?") but not as a fuck toy and all should be well.

Most women really are decent in the work place. They can usually handle work place conversations just fine even when things are hectic and stressful. Women are built for stress. We've been born in raised in the fiery depths of stress. So if you are pissed, try to just discuss it like you were talking to just another human being and make sure you have your points clear in your head, not just about how it affects you but how it affects profit, the company and clients. If you can make them think it's their idea to change the policy or rule that's the best line of action. That's my advice, take it with a grain of salt.

Good luck,

Fury

 

[brioche]

Sometimes women just want to vent.
They're stressed and want to release it by complaining.
When they are doing this, do not try to solve their problems for them. They do not want solutions, they are blowing off steam.
If they are complaining about this situation or that asshole, commiserate or whatever until they ask you what you think they should do, or what you'd do, or do you think they shoud do this, etc. THEN give them advice.

 

[FurryFury]

Sometimes women just want to vent.
They're stressed and want to release it by complaining.
When they are doing this, do not try to solve their problems for them. They do not want solutions, they are blowing off steam.
If they are complaining about this situation or that asshole, commiserate or whatever until they ask you what you think they should do, or what you'd do, or do you think they shoud do this, etc. THEN give them advice.

Now that is good advice! It's also a KEY point in dealing with women and not just at work.

Men rarely understand that we don't want them to fix these things just commensurate.

Fury