Pro dommes, pro subs, dungeons, dragons, ect

[evesdream]

Sex-related work:

There are two competing dungeons in my hometown, and both are hiring
and training their hires. I might switch there for a few months. But
what are some good reasons not to try?

Supplementary personal question: Have you ever tried a professional?
How was the experience different?

 

[TaintedB]

Sex-related work:

There are two competing dungeons in my hometown, and both are hiring
and training their hires. I might switch there for a few months. But
what are some good reasons not to try?

Supplementary personal question: Have you ever tried a professional?
How was the experience different?

Reason not to try: I've seen such work alienate those friends and acquaintances I have who do it from their own sexuality in some pretty extreme ways (i.e. they couldn't stand personal sex anymore, couldn't deal with having lovers, etc.) Also, it'll likely increase your hatred of men (or give you a good case of it if you don't already have it). Maybe hatred is too strong a word. My pro girlfriends did come to despise men, however, and eventually they sterotyped all men together into one very negative category. All of them were on the top, though. They were very good at what they did, very sucessful, even had a few clients who became close friends, but over the longterm it really fucked with their heads. I guess it depends a lot on what your specific personality can handle.

Can't answer your second question.

 

[evesdream]

thank you TB. I've already pretty much decided on my course of action this summer. i'm very ignorantly beginning to embark on this thing but not entirely ignorant of other variants of the sex industry in my town. i think.. i'm hoping that it depends on the motivations for doing it as well. i can imagine where your friends' reaction to men might've been intensified through their workaday lives. but in my own experience so far, it's been the opposite reaction, so i think i'll be okay in that regard.

i decided to go in for an interview with the domina of one of the dungeons. this was all quite casual a discussion over mineral water, a black velvet table cloth, and a St.Anthony's cross in the corner, which i have never seen before in the flesh. The domina, by the way, was ten minutes late for the interview and i was greeted by one of her assistants, a girl with a small curvy build. This girl was friendly, but all business. (We started virtually with vital statistics, my orientation, my age, the age i could/should be at work, and my ambiguous ethnicity, like, what the heck am i). We were in the middle of discussing the racial mixes that men request contact with in our city when the domina came in and talk turned to what my experience is and what happens in her dungeon.

Our town has bizarre and convoluted laws when it comes to brothels and prostitution. Contact during stripping is illegal, even a brush on the collar bone; contact for the purpose of sexual release of any kind in exchange for $$ is strictly verboten. Prostitution is not illegal, but living off of the avails of prostitution and contacting a person for the purposes of prostitution are. The dungeons so far have remained untouched by the law, because of the circumspection of the dommes and the ambiguity surrounding what actually happens there and whether it is in fact sexual in nature. Anyhow 'prostitution' was not brought up. Contact she says, she leaves at the discretion of the people involved. Traditionally a domme doesn't touch, (and as far as i know, there is a whole internecine status strife business over that), and a submissive will "at her discretion".

she talked about what the men liked, very dismissive of the fantasies of the men who want to play dominant, which turned me off. I couldn't tell if her dismissal was of the dominant male role that the men assume, and the possible absurdity of that or whether it was broad scorn for the idea, or if she was minimizing the entire fact of the matter, for my benefit and her own. in any case, it was clear that "at her discretion", is code for your business depends on how far you will go, (barring sex-sex), as the men select dommes and subs based on what they report that they will and will not do.

The main danger in this industry is how easy it is to be seduced into doing something you may not love yourself for after all, on reflection. Money or other forms of mild coercion. I suppose the power of the lure towards personally dubious acts depends on what you are in it for.

She described the different activities there, the whips the locks the chains, different tiers of "extreme" by local standards. There is "extreme" role-play as well. A "doctor" role play is very common and not considered extreme, but "daddy - daughter" role-play and rape scenarios are considered so and are even more common. I'll admit i almost danced for joy, (in my head), when she told me that. which is just one example of just thinking with my lap. "What are you okay with?" she wants to know. I do know, but in large part i don't, I'm still doing research.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Don't have much first hand knowledge though my daughter has recently been aproached to undergo Pro Domme training and then run the dungeon that is in the process of being set up. She has accepted the training with the option to continue or not at the end, though suspect she will be happy to go on with it. One of the first things she was told about was that there was to be no sex involved (prostitution is legal there), and any breaking of that rule would see her out on her pretty backside. She was okay with that and his second concern was how it might affect her personal life if those close to her found out. LOL, she says he couldn't believe his luck when she told him no problems there as her mother was living a 24/7 lifestyle and had been encouraging her to make this particular career change for quite awhile now...and as to friends, they would be happy she was getting in to a less risky line of work. Hope you find it is all you would like as well.

Catalina

 

[TaintedB]

Couple comments and a question

One thing to ask the dungeon people when you interview with them is what precautions they take to protect pro subs in scenes. How will anybody know if some guy decides to break the rules and rape you (and you don't want him to) or if someone starts harming you?

The mistress of that dungeon was probably being dismissive of male dominants because of her experience with the sort that pay places like hers to dom women. I hope it isn't so, but you, too, may find these people not to be very sexy (not because of anything physical but because of their personalities and attitudes).

Also a question if it isn't too personal: why do you want to do this? Is it strictly for a thrill or strictly money or both? I would think you could get thrills a-plenty for free, there's tons of people looking for bdsm sex. I would also think that there's plenty of other ways to earn a buck that are a bit safer emotionally and physically--talking about the pro-subbing here, which can be a hard gig. Is the thought of being a prostitute of a sort a kink of yours? It's one of my fetishes, as you probably remember, but unlike you I don't think I'd have the nerve to act it out.

 

[jasonlf]

Just me personally -- I could never participate in a BDSM scene with someone I didn't know and completely trust.

Until I read this thread, I didn't even realize professional dungeons existed. That's an idea I can't competely understand.

Is it just that, for some people, BDSM is just a sexual experience, and nothing more? I guess maybe it's always been something deeper than just that for me... but also, sex in general has always been tied in with deeper things with me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

One thing to ask the dungeon people when you interview with them is what precautions they take to protect pro subs in scenes. How will anybody know if some guy decides to break the rules and rape you (and you don't want him to) or if someone starts harming you?

The mistress of that dungeon was probably being dismissive of male dominants because of her experience with the sort that pay places like hers to dom women. I hope it isn't so, but you, too, may find these people not to be very sexy (not because of anything physical but because of their personalities and attitudes).

Also a question if it isn't too personal: why do you want to do this? Is it strictly for a thrill or strictly money or both? I would think you could get thrills a-plenty for free, there's tons of people looking for bdsm sex. I would also think that there's plenty of other ways to earn a buck that are a bit safer emotionally and physically--talking about the pro-subbing here, which can be a hard gig. Is the thought of being a prostitute of a sort a kink of yours? It's one of my fetishes, as you probably remember, but unlike you I don't think I'd have the nerve to act it out.

Actually, from what I know most reputable dungeons make sure their staff both sides of the whip are protected in the event of someone thinking they are there to take whatever they might choose to dish out. In most cases it is much safer than prostitution, but personally I have no problem with either profession.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Just me personally -- I could never participate in a BDSM scene with someone I didn't know and completely trust.

Until I read this thread, I didn't even realize professional dungeons existed. That's an idea I can't competely understand.

Is it just that, for some people, BDSM is just a sexual experience, and nothing more? I guess maybe it's always been something deeper than just that for me... but also, sex in general has always been tied in with deeper things with me.

There are many reasons to attend a professional in this field...one being that if you attend a good dungeon, they are going to know what they are doing. Not to mention in the interests of building a business they are going to respect boundaries and work toward pleasing the customer. And many do not involve sex as a part of the service at all, keeping it more to straight out D/s etc., not a cover for sexual services. Some people choose this way of getting their needs met because they have no other option....perhaps in a vanilla relationship, not meeting the right partner, not wanting a full on commitment, needing to be discreet with their tastes, not wanting it to be sexual etc.

Catalina

 

[jasonlf]

There are many reasons to attend a professional in this field...one being that if you attend a good dungeon, they are going to know what they are doing. Not to mention in the interests of building a business they are going to respect boundaries and work toward pleasing the customer. And many do not involve sex as a part of the service at all, keeping it more to straight out D/s etc., not a cover for sexual services. Some people choose this way of getting their needs met because they have no other option....perhaps in a vanilla relationship, not meeting the right partner, not wanting a full on commitment, needing to be discreet with their tastes, not wanting it to be sexual etc.

I guess part of the reason it's hard for me to understand is because d/s with me has more to do with trust than anything else ... you know, as in someone trusting me with themselves -- not to come across the wrong way -- but in a safe place, with someone I'm paying, kinda would take away that effect.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

 

[schmerzgarten]

I guess part of the reason it's hard for me to understand is because d/s with me has more to do with trust than anything else ... you know, as in someone trusting me with themselves -- not to come across the wrong way -- but in a safe place, with someone I'm paying, kinda would take away that effect.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

Like it, hate it, love it, be ambivalent toward it, pro Dommes - I can't speak about pro subs or pro Doms, know what they are doing, just as any professional does. I've seen a pro Domme three times and, quite honestly, had I the money and were it acceptable to my wife, I would have no issue with such a dynamic on a regular basis. I know such women tend to become grumpy with men, as well they should, and as do most women. That said, in both my experiences, we prefaced with a discussion of mutual interests and then I said, "I'd really like you to simply take control now and feel your energy, I'll do my best." In both cases, it was a wonderful experience.

 

[evesdream]

Don't have much first hand knowledge though my daughter has recently been aproached to undergo Pro Domme training and then run the dungeon that is in the process of being set up. She has accepted the training with the option to continue or not at the end, though suspect she will be happy to go on with it. One of the first things she was told about was that there was to be no sex involved (prostitution is legal there), and any breaking of that rule would see her out on her pretty backside. She was okay with that and his second concern was how it might affect her personal life if those close to her found out. LOL, she says he couldn't believe his luck when she told him no problems there as her mother was living a 24/7 lifestyle and had been encouraging her to make this particular career change for quite awhile now...and as to friends, they would be happy she was getting in to a less risky line of work. Hope you find it is all you would like as well.

Catalina

more power to you daughter.

 

[evesdream]

Also a question if it isn't too personal: why do you want to do this?

You're only young, single and alive once, I guess.

 

[evesdream]

Actually, from what I know most reputable dungeons make sure their staff both sides of the whip are protected in the event of someone thinking they are there to take whatever they might choose to dish out. In most cases it is much safer than prostitution, but personally I have no problem with either profession.

Catalina

i'm curious about why you don't term this line of work as prostitution, Catalina.

 

[catalina_francisco]

i'm curious about why you don't term this line of work as prostitution, Catalina.

I think of prostitution more as sex work where intercourse or some form of sexual service/release takes place in exchange for money, and in a way which is generally understood to be sexual. With dungeons like the one my daughter may be working in there is a clear no sex rule, and no selling of sexual services through contact in the dungeon. From my understanding this is fairly common in many Pro Dungeons, sometimes because of the prostitution laws involved, sometimes health regulations, and often simply because the owners want to seperate the business from that part of the sex industry, at least in the adult industry understanding of it. Seems the guy she will be working for wants it to be taken seriously by the BDSM community and not seen as a cover for prostitution.

Catalina

 

[Killishandra]

Question

Mind if I ask, what is the going rate these days for seeing a Pro-Domme?

 

[Sheaf_Beast]

Mind if I ask, what is the going rate these days for seeing a Pro-Domme?

starts at 200 per hr, gets higher the more elaborate you want to get.


200 for domination,degradation,paddling,whips simple fire scenes etc.

higher for shibari(I can never spell that) and some age play as well as transformation.


higher yet for medical,piercing etc.

 

[Killishandra]

Interesting.

starts at 200 per hr, gets higher the more elaborate you want to get.


200 for domination,degradation,paddling,whips simple fire scenes etc.

higher for shibari(I can never spell that) and some age play as well as transformation.


higher yet for medical,piercing etc.

I currently charge 2 customers $200/hr for foot worship and (for one of the men) mild verbal and physical humiliation... I fell into the first gig by accident, and he is not a sub, simply a lover of feet.. he set the price and it seemed more than generous to me, especially as he likes to do these one-hour sessions as often as once a week and we have been doing them for 3-4 months now. The second man is a sub and enjoys the humiliation aspect, a.k.a. being my "footwipe" and licking dirty feet (whereas the kink who is not a sub is VERY meticulous about my feet being clean and smelling nice beforehand. My feet are washed and then never touch the floor until it's time to leave.) I have no desire to go pro with this, but doing one session per week per customer adds up to a tidy sum of money for an open-minded college student. Anyway, I had NO idea how much the going rate for this type of activity is... sounds like I am being reasonably compensated though, so I have no complaints. I don't really enjoy "topping" the sub, except to find it intellectually fascinating and testing of my creativity to think up new ways to fulfill his desire for humiliation (without crossing any of my personal boundaries like him touching above my knees or any talk that makes me acutely uncomfotable. )

evesdream, thanks for starting this thread. I wanted to ask that question about pay, but it didn't seem worthy of a thread of it's own.

 

[Stefani]

When i worked with a pro-Domme 10 years ago she commanded $150/hour. As a TS, i never took anything less than $300/hour.

As far as safety goes, you never do it alone. You always have someone watching your back. The pro-Domme that I knew had a dungeon in her basement, which is risky, but that's what she did. She ALWAYS had a friend in the next room, in case things got out of control.

She also had a few cops and lawyers as subs, which I guess helped. No one ever hassled her, and she was in business for years and years.

I always thought she was wise as far as the way she screened her subs. She advertised in the back of very upscale magazines... as a "behavior modification specialist"... and made inquirers writer her several very detailed letters regarding their fantasy. If they seemed a bit wacky, she tossed them in the trash. She got lots of letters. I remember spending many nights reading through them with her, deciding on who to see, and who to toss in the trash. Most of her subs were totally harmless... the more difficult ones were the ones that were into serious pain... you could never beat them enough... it would wear your arm out and they still wanted more. The easy ones were into silly things like being wrapped in Saran Wrap... they got off on the strict bondage.

She NEVER had sex with subs. Never. In that regard, she said she was not really a prostitute, or so she claimed. She considered herself more like a counsellor who was helping men fulfill the fantasies that their wives refused to do. It used to crack me up... at the end of the session, she would tell the sub, you have 10 seconds to masturbate. If you don't cum by the time I get to 10, you've got to get dressed and leave. You'd be amazed how quickly these men would cum. Quite on command. She got the greatest pleasure out of that. It made her feel she could snap her fingers and make a man cum. She could too.

When I left her I did outcall work on my own. I was a complete and utter idiot. Especially by meeting men in motel rooms. I always made the man meet me in a bar or in the Hilton lounge or whatever, just so that we were seen in public together... which made me think he wouldn't strangle me and toss me into a dumpster if he'd been seen with me. God, I was a stupid bitch.

Steffie
http://www.steffiemor.com/lingerie.html

 

[TaintedB]

You're only young, single and alive once, I guess.

Great point about young and alive, although I would argue with you about single. Most people are single more than once, although I do agree that a (very) few of us find ourselves in different circumstances.

 

[TaintedB]

When i worked with a pro-Domme 10 years ago ....

Super and very sound advice, I think. I order you to listen to Stef, Evesdream!

Your domme's screening method was excellent. The women I've known in the business used voice interviews, usually just one, for screening, but the only reason they mostly did OK with that is because they were exellent judges of people and could hear what they needed to hear in the person's tones and responses. Still, one of them could have been fooled at some time or another, as anyone with a little bit of decent acting ability can fake it through a single phone call.

 

[schmerzgarten]

Aside from the threat of physical Danger...

Probably the only other thing I can offer to this thread is that work can be mentally taxing. While I've only ever "seen" a couple of pros, I've had better than 10 that I would count as friends at some point. Once concern frequently voiced was that catering to the clients needs left them drained and unenthused with the prospect of pursing scenes with personal submissives/bottoms.

 

[Stefani]

Super and very sound advice, I think. I order you to listen to Stef, Evesdream!

Thanks TaintedB!

Was an interesting time in my life. Saw a lot more than I ever could have imagined on my own. Learned a lot too. Like I am not into pain. Was amazed how some people could actually orgasm from a beating. I am quite thankful that I don't need to go through all that to enjoy sexuality! Ultimately the thing I came away from the entire experience with, was the knowledge that all I need to be happy is one good person to love and be loved by. Be thankful if you don't need all the props to be satisfied.

Something else. While discussing safety, should really mention the importance of practicing SAFE SEX. Mistress Marlena never had sex with her subs, but if she was going to touch them, or do anything to them, she was always careful about wearing things like plastic gloves. As her playtoy, I was often on the receiving end of a lot of her little "scenes" with her subs, but she was always extremely careful about making them use condoms if she ever let them top me. Can't stress this enough. Just because there are now meds out there for HIV, doesn't mean you can't still catch it, or that it won't entirely screw up your life. Paranoia is good! It's for your own protection. I always felt like I owed a lot to Marlena just for making me so conscious of constantly practicing safe sex. It probably helped keep me alive.

One quickie story about something I experienced with Marlena...

One of her subs was an electrician, and Marlena had him put all of these outside lights around her house. Anyway, he told her it was going to cost $500, but he would rip up the bill, if I agreed to cum in his mouth! Marlena told about this, and that I could save her $500 if I'd agree... all of which was kind of an odd request because I am a transsexual, and totally a bottom, and have no interest in men going down on me. I told her that I would try, but that i wasn't sure that i could do it... i just don't get stimulated that way. This guy had seen me around, and for some reason had fantasized about doing this to me... maybe he thought i would like it... i don't actually.

Anyway, the appointed evening came, and i wore something sexy, lay down on Marlena's sofa in the living room, and he started going down on me. Gawd it was awful, this guy was sucking away, and i was having a hard time even getting aroused. Marlena saw what was happening, and knelt down beside me, and started whispering in my ear, "If you can't get it up... I am going to beat your ass." Hm... that seemed to work. Started getting a rise out of me right away. But the real trick would be orgasming in his mouth... I really didn't see how I could do that.

Marlena knew me better than I knew myself, and continued whispering in my ear, saying, "As soon as he leaves, I am going to put on my biggest strapon, and I am going to f--k you until you are screaming for mercy..." She kept on talking dirty like that, which got me totally aroused, and eventually I was able to cum in the electricians mouth. Doubt I could have done it without Marlena's little verbal fantasy... all of which serves as a good example of the power of the mind when it comes to sexuality.

 

[TaintedB]

Another great story! I don't like people going down on me either. Hate it, in fact. I'd also need some sort of "encouragement" such as your Mistress gave you in order to get off. Evesdream, clients ask for some straange things. If some customer wanted to go down on you and make your orgasm with his mouth, assuming it was done safely, would you have any problems with that?

The HIV advice is great too, especially for those of us who, for various reasons, still have a cavalier attitude toward it. While a person may justify sexual unsafety by saying they are not afraid to die, why do it over a span of a couple decades while suffering a gradually degenerating quality of life--and not being able, in good conscience, to fuck or play hard with anybody clean for fear of accidentally giving them the disease? You also get to watch your friends' and family's hearts breaking, dying that slowly, and that is not exactly fun. Lots more quicker and painless ways to go!

Even if the HIV drugs now work, I imagine they are not perfect yet, i.e. I expect you still get lots of nasty illnesses and probably suffer unpleasant side effects from the drugs as well.

 

[Netzach]

Different spaces have different attitudes towards "negotiable" sex. In my mind, "negotiable" sex has no place in a house of professional domination. (by this I mean manipulation to orgasm, oral sex, or fucking)

The place I prefer to run sessions out of in NYC is very compatible with my own preferences. The pre-session talk with the owner goes something like "if I hear about a hand job, if I have reason to believe a hand job, you are out of there so fast your head swims."

Some people, not the majority, but some people are striving to make this a profession that can at least marginally fly legally, bears more in common with the couch as the casting couch, and really is about the sex in your brain.

I'm not saying other kinds of sex work are wrong, they are just wrong for me and I prefer not to engage in them. One thing you do learn very quickly is what your personal boundaries are -- so in my mind, working with people who support your right to enforce those -- that's key.