Preserving the Best Stories of the past...

[RogueAlan]

Laurel and Manu, first i want to apologize, i was NOT trying to cause problems with my latest post.

AND I want to emphasize I was NOT trying to take any credit for the story i submitted, which is WHY I specified the author and story origin.

That said, I am frustrated that 'The Golf Outing' was sent back.
Because I have ZERO way to contact Teebone (I've spent weeks looking over the internet for the story other stories by the author and contact information for the author without success).

And because the fact that the story has disappeared from the net-- despite what i've told my kids about 'anything they post on the net'-- I had hoped that with original author credit, an unedited version of the story, there would be a means to get the story up where A) readers could enjoy it and B) it would remain to be discovered by future writers

I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I've been reading 'smut' since before I was 'supposed to' and writing for nearly that long as well.

Lacking a site of my own, I thought i'd throw this out to other authors... what suggestions do y'all have to bring back and preserve the great stories you remember from when you read more than you wrote?

Regards,
RogueAlan

 

[sr71plt]

You don't reach Manu or Laurel with a post to the board. You need to PM them directly.

One comment, though: Just because you can't reach the original author of a story, you don't get the privilege of ignoring that they own the story so you can do what you want with it. That's totally your problem, not theirs. You don't have that entitlement--and no one else has it with stories you originated either.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I can see it's frustrating, especially if you were trying to do the right thing and credit the original author, but there's no good way to do this.

Hosting stories without the permission of the copyright owner (usually the author in this context) is a violation of copyright law, and understandably Laurel and Manu have decided that they don't want to open themselves up to that kind of trouble. So you can only post your own stories here.

Some sites are more relaxed about copyright laws and might be willing to host it. But unless the author has explicitly licensed it for sharing (e.g. via appropriate Creative Commons license), you don't have their consent to do so.

Sometimes authors decide that they don't want their porn up on the net any more. They get religion, or they get a partner who disapproves, or they want to run for Congress, and they decide that they don't want that stuff out there even under a pseudonym. Or they get a publishing deal and yank their story off the free net. If you can't contact the author, you don't know, and you shouldn't assume consent.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

I'm confused. If a story gets taken down and you can't find the author, it's gone. You can't have it because it is inaccessible and there's nothing you can do about that after the fact.

On the other hand, very little stops you from copying stories you like from the web, page by page, and saving them yourself. You cannot republish them and strictly speaking you're violating copyright just by having them, but you won't be prosecuted as long as you don't share them.

That's the rule for anything online. If you like it, take a copy, because it might be gone tomorrow.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

For all you know the original author took the stories down to publish somewhere that they don't want them on a free site. He might even have changed the title and the character names to get it published.

If you have it, that's cool, you can read it over and over again. But you can't repost it here or anywhere, that would be theft of copyright.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm confused. If a story gets taken down and you can't find the author, it's gone. You can't have it because it is inaccessible and there's nothing you can do about that after the fact.

By my understanding, OP had saved a copy of the story, and after seeing that it was no longer available online, attempted to post it here (crediting the original author).

 

[ElectricBlue]

And because the fact that the story has disappeared from the net-- despite what i've told my kids about 'anything they post on the net'-- I had hoped that with original author credit, an unedited version of the story, there would be a means to get the story up where A) readers could enjoy it and B) it would remain to be discovered by future writers

I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I've been reading 'smut' since before I was 'supposed to' and writing for nearly that long as well.

Lacking a site of my own, I thought i'd throw this out to other authors... what suggestions do y'all have to bring back and preserve the great stories you remember from when you read more than you wrote

You have ZERO right to republish anything that is not yours.

If an author takes their work down they have done so for a reason. You should at the very least respect that reason. Being a fan does not give you any rights with regard to the work, certainly not to republish it.

 

[SimonDoom]

You have ZERO right to republish anything that is not yours.

If an author takes their work down they have done so for a reason. You should at the very least respect that reason. Being a fan does not give you any rights with regard to the work, certainly not to republish it.

Absolutely. Even if you set aside legal considerations because of the difficulty of enforcing rights in a place like this, there's the matter of respect and decency. If an author has withdrawn a work from publication that decision should be respected by other authors and readers.

HandsintheDark's suggestion makes some sense. If you save a story to your personal computer so you can read it offline, then as long as you don't share or publish it no one ever is going to bother you about it.

 

[ChloeTzang]

By my understanding, OP had saved a copy of the story, and after seeing that it was no longer available online, attempted to post it here (crediting the original author).

I've seen that done a lot on Asstr, but then asstr is pretty anarchic.

 

[RogueAlan]

appreciate the opinions

i don't come from a legal background, so the whole copyright issue for uncopyrighted works that are reproduced without anyone at any level profiting is not something i had considered.

AND were LitErotica do dump tomorrow, my stories would be gone but not of any action on my part.

i'm a little surprised no one here has stories that would spring to mind that they think would be a loss were they to disappear from the internet.

and the 'no' 'never' 'zero' attitudes are surprising... any peer reviewed publication-- including for profit publications-- include in virtually every article quotations and excerpts from other authors and other works, appropriately credited (one hopes). So having a story uploaded unaltered with appropriate credit did not seem as evil and immoral an act as some have implied.

that said, i had not considered that the author might have taken the story down... almost all of the stories on the DW site are gone. I doubt that's the case, but i can't be sure.

in any case, i do appreciate the thoughts.

continued success to all of you, many of whose work i've enjoyed the years i've been reading and writing here, and whose future work also promise to be entertaining.

Pax, RA

 

[oggbashan]

Except in the US, which has always been very awkward about copyright, most works published on the internet ARE copyrighted under the Berne convention:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention

Limited quotation for academic publications is allowed with due acknowledgement. Republishing the whole is a breach of the creator's copyright.

Most of my stories published on Literotica include my copyright notice.

But in practice there is little a copyright holder can do to protect their copyright apart from a DMCA notice. My stories tend to get stolen and reposted including my copyright notice.

 

[sr71plt]

i don't come from a legal background, so the whole copyright issue for uncopyrighted works that are reproduced without anyone at any level profiting is not something i had considered.

For any country that signed the Berne Convention (which is pretty much any affected by Literotica writers/readers) there's no such thing as uncopyrighted works. They are all under copyright upon creation. (So, I didn't read any further into your post.)

 

[sr71plt]

Except in the US, which has always been very awkward about copyright, most works published on the internet ARE copyrighted under the Berne convention:

They are copyrighted in the United States, which signed the Berne Convention 100 years later, too. It's just that the United States (purposely) hasn't put teeth into legally enforcing copyright without the process of formally registering the work.

 

[oggbashan]

They are copyrighted in the United States, which signed the Berne Convention 100 years later, too. It's just that the United States (purposely) hasn't put teeth into legally enforcing copyright without the process of formally registering the work.

Which means, that despite signing the Berne Convention, the US government doesn't mean it...

...and even if it did it is almost impossible to protect your copyright, registered in the US or not, anywhere in the world.

 

[sr71plt]

Which means, that despite signing the Berne Convention, the US government doesn't mean it...

...and even if it did it is almost impossible to protect your copyright, registered in the US or not, anywhere in the world.

Yep. That's what the U.S. government wanted. The United States has always favored open access (for everything but itself--for its own writers, song writers, and inventors--not that it gives even them much more than lip service).

 

[CoffeeWithMonkeys]

You have ZERO right to republish anything that is not yours.

If an author takes their work down they have done so for a reason. You should at the very least respect that reason. Being a fan does not give you any rights with regard to the work, certainly not to republish it.

This!
I have asked to have things taken down before and I would be upset to see my writing posted again without my permission.

i don't come from a legal background, so the whole copyright issue for uncopyrighted works that are reproduced without anyone at any level profiting is not something i had considered.

AND were LitErotica do dump tomorrow, my stories would be gone but not of any action on my part.

i'm a little surprised no one here has stories that would spring to mind that they think would be a loss were they to disappear from the internet.

and the 'no' 'never' 'zero' attitudes are surprising... any peer reviewed publication-- including for profit publications-- include in virtually every article quotations and excerpts from other authors and other works, appropriately credited (one hopes). So having a story uploaded unaltered with appropriate credit did not seem as evil and immoral an act as some have implied.

that said, i had not considered that the author might have taken the story down... almost all of the stories on the DW site are gone. I doubt that's the case, but i can't be sure.

in any case, i do appreciate the thoughts.

continued success to all of you, many of whose work i've enjoyed the years i've been reading and writing here, and whose future work also promise to be entertaining.

Pax, RA

I admit I don't read much here, but I have read at least 40-50 stories and I can honestly say I wouldn't miss any of them if they were deleted. I can only vaguely recall a few and only glimpses of what happened in them.
But my memory isn't what it was years ago so that is probably just a me problem and nothing to do with a lot of the writers and what they've written.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

i don't come from a legal background, so the whole copyright issue for uncopyrighted works that are reproduced without anyone at any level profiting is not something i had considered.

AND were LitErotica do dump tomorrow, my stories would be gone but not of any action on my part.

i'm a little surprised no one here has stories that would spring to mind that they think would be a loss were they to disappear from the internet.

and the 'no' 'never' 'zero' attitudes are surprising... any peer reviewed publication-- including for profit publications-- include in virtually every article quotations and excerpts from other authors and other works, appropriately credited (one hopes). So having a story uploaded unaltered with appropriate credit did not seem as evil and immoral an act as some have implied.

that said, i had not considered that the author might have taken the story down... almost all of the stories on the DW site are gone. I doubt that's the case, but i can't be sure.

in any case, i do appreciate the thoughts.

continued success to all of you, many of whose work i've enjoyed the years i've been reading and writing here, and whose future work also promise to be entertaining.

Pax, RA

Warning: the unauthorized reproduction or distribution of this copyrighted work is illegal. Criminal copyright infringement, including infringement without monetary gain, is investigated by the FBI and is punishable by up to 5 years in prison and a fine of $250,000.

Now is this really the case? I don't know, but I'll be damned if I want to find out.

 

[Bramblethorn]

i don't come from a legal background, so the whole copyright issue for uncopyrighted works that are reproduced without anyone at any level profiting is not something i had considered.

Somebody is profiting. Literotica hosts ads, and they wouldn't be getting viewers for those ads if not for all the free stories here.

I decided that I'm okay with this and I will post my stories here. But I would be unhappy if somebody else decided to do that on my behalf without my agreement.

AND were LitErotica do dump tomorrow, my stories would be gone but not of any action on my part.

Yep. But if you still wanted them out in the public eye, you could publish them elsewhere (assuming you kept backups, which you definitely should!)

i'm a little surprised no one here has stories that would spring to mind that they think would be a loss were they to disappear from the internet.

I don't think anybody here has said such a thing?

I'd like to keep some of my stories on the public net. But if I want readers to help with that, I'll ask. And I don't necessarily want all my stuff online; sometimes the old stuff doesn't reflect who I am now, or it doesn't come up to the standards that I set for myself.

and the 'no' 'never' 'zero' attitudes are surprising... any peer reviewed publication-- including for profit publications-- include in virtually every article quotations and excerpts from other authors and other works, appropriately credited (one hopes). So having a story uploaded unaltered with appropriate credit did not seem as evil and immoral an act as some have implied.

There is a big difference between quoting/excerpting another author for commentary/review/critical purposes, and reproducing the entire work without any such "transformative use". The former will often fall under a fair use exemption; the latter will not.

 

[oggbashan]

Warning: the unauthorized reproduction or distribution of this copyrighted work is illegal. Criminal copyright infringement, including infringement without monetary gain, is investigated by the FBI and is punishable by up to 5 years in prison and a fine of $250,000.

Now is this really the case? I don't know, but I'll be damned if I want to find out.

No. That warning is bullshit.

 

[lovecraft68]

Its amazing how many times this comes up and always the same people posting the same points/arguments.

Maybe there should be a copyright sticky.

Then again there would be a big debate on what would be the proper points to put in the sticky

Best point would be if you're worried about something being taken don't put it here or anywhere else on the net for free.

Granted even putting something in an e-book for sale it could still be stolen, but its far less likely and in that case all you have to do is show your e-book predates theirs and its usually enough with venues like Amazon etc.

But you post for free you're pretty much saying "free lunch" on your work.

 

[My I]

There are people who think their rights outweigh everyone else's. "I didn't write it, but it's a great story, I think, that deserves to be read so I don't care what the author wants, I'm gonna make it public without their permission because it's what I want."

If you didn't write it, it's not yours to make decisions about. Leave it the fuck alone.

Reminds me of my brother. "Yeah, I took your watch that was a birthday present from your girlfriend but I like that watch and you weren't wearing it."

 

[SimonDoom]

There are people who think their rights outweigh everyone else's. "I didn't write it, but it's a great story, I think, that deserves to be read so I don't care what the author wants, I'm gonna make it public without their permission because it's what I want."

If you didn't write it, it's not yours to make decisions about. Leave it the fuck alone.

Reminds me of my brother. "Yeah, I took your watch that was a birthday present from your girlfriend but I like that watch and you weren't wearing it."

I think, to be fair, some people have no idea what the rights in online stories, or online things in general, are. Many people are under the impression that if it's on the web you can do what you want with it. The OP in this case seems to have been acting on a good faith misunderstanding of the law and the rules of the site.

 

[rutger5]

I think, to be fair, some people have no idea what the rights in online stories, or online things in general, are. Many people are under the impression that if it's on the web you can do what you want with it. The OP in this case seems to have been acting on a good faith misunderstanding of the law and the rules of the site.

While the OP may have been acting in good faith there is an attitude in general today, especially online, that it's okay to just take something if you want to. It has happened with music and movie piracy a lot through file sharing sites and people know they are breaking the law but they don't care because its free and THEY WANT.

 

[SimonDoom]

While the OP may have been acting in good faith there is an attitude in general today, especially online, that it's okay to just take something if you want to. It has happened with music and movie piracy a lot through file sharing sites and people know they are breaking the law but they don't care because its free and THEY WANT.

That's very true. Unfortunately, one of the consequences is that a lot of people genuinely think unauthorized copying is O.K. One can condemn the practice while cutting an individual person some slack for being confused about what the rules are.

 

[ishtat]

Which means, that despite signing the Berne Convention, the US government doesn't mean it...

...and even if it did it is almost impossible to protect your copyright, registered in the US or not, anywhere in the world.

Og. Quite a few years ago I ran an organization which litigated several copyright disputes in London and one in the USA. The American was simpler to manage, precisely because they did have rules one had to pass. The UK was actually more difficult because their Judges have a significant amount of discretion and to a man they dislike hearing cases in which and I quote "It appears the evidence is all opinion gentlemen I strongly recommend you take it to ADR (Alternative dispute resolution) rather than my court." Not one of these cases made it to court, all were settled mostly with a facilitator (Someone who bangs the disputants heads together) In practice it is at least as difficult to run a case in the UK as it is in the USA.