Premenstrual board syndrome

[KillerMuffin]

It's kinda cool in a weird sort of way. It's like the board's getting into its second cycle of rip, rip, snort snort. It's a coming of age sort of thing.

It's a fact of life; you cannot have a group of people get together on a regular basis for a lengthy period of time without fights breaking out eventually. Maybe it's the lunar eclipse, maybe it's that everyone hiccuped at exactly the same time, maybe it's just that we're mammals and we get out of synch.

This board hasn't changed. The people here have. The good news is that it's temporary. Down cycles always swing back up. And the poetry board stays in its up cycle for a lot longer than it does its down cycle.

Take a deep breath, go out and enjoy the newly arrived summer/winter. Write some poetry. Cut loose with the flames, but hit the back button instead of submit. Let yourself be inspired by the upsurge of emotion. Creative energy comes from the oddest places. Just remember that this downturn isn't anyone's fault. Not quite like the brouhaha where I told TJ her poem sucked to her face.

It will get better, guys. Really.

 

[Angeline]

Thanks KM

That was the right thing to say at the right time! Made me feel good.

 

[HomerPindar]

Having escaped the alien abduction, I'd simply like to assure everyone that there's been no change in me what so ever...

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have cow to mutilate.

HomerPindar

 

[KillerMuffin]

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have cow to mutilate.

Can I have some? I'd like to grill up some steak.

 

[HomerPindar]

Can I have some? I'd like to grill up some steak.

Sure, come on by, BBQ at my place!!

YOU MUST BRING POETRY TO GET IN


HomerPindar

 

[Senna Jawa]

[...] Down cycles always swing back up. And the poetry board stays in its up cycle for a lot longer than it does its down cycle. [...]It will get better, guys. Really.

Each crisis has its price. Especially when nothing is resolved, when there is no clear conclusion. Then nothing is gained, and something (invisible? perhaps, but HUGE) is lost. For instance, discussions about poetry are difficult by its very nature but Eve has supported Angeline's proposition to make them still more difficult by imposing superficial choo-choo rules. That's only a small portion of the penalty/price the board pays for its unresolved crisis--a certain loss of honesty. Admit it, regulars, you don't want a poetic board, you want a false choo-choo chat board with cheap friendship claims. As long as there is a negative perception of straight comments about poems combined with a tolerance for rude, PERSONAL attacks, it is hard to discuss poetry here. At least I share but a small fraction of what I would otherwise, there are many comments which were never posted here. This may be true about others too. Eve has mentioned more than once about her selfcensorship. Possible jokes about not wanting more of the honest comments notwithstanding, this is not a good situation. When a person after a person writes that six or eight or twelve new SP's poems are all good it is a nonsense, they simply didn't even pay much attention to them, they have hardly read them at all and digested nothing. I am not saying that these poems are or are not good/bad, but such mechanical statements along the established here on this forum "convention" have their price, artistic and social--the honesty. All this "friendly choo-choo" here is sick. In particular a lot of time is wasted on "discussing" and praising poor poems. When you plan exciting trips, you should discuss the interesting roads, paths and directions and not the worthless, hopeless dead ends. Learning from mistakes has only a very limited potential, especially when mistakes are not acknowledged, not even recognized. You need positive examples to positively learn the craft. Instead, lousy choo-choo examples pass for good poems. Truly good poems are mentioned here rarely, almost accidentally, and are swamped by the choo-choo poems and choo-choo comments.

OK, never mind, go back to your ever a lot longer smootchy-choo-choo period of the cycle. And don't forget to be always instantly ready to get mean and snotty and rude and hipocritical, just in case, right?

 

[HomerPindar]

COCKROACH!!!

STOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMPSTOMP

COCKROACH, killitkillitkillitkillit!

gawds, i hate dem thangs

HomerPindar

 

[Cordelia]

Re: Re: Premenstrual board syndrome

In particular a lot of time is wasted on "discussing" and praising poor poems.

I am posing a serious question here. And it is only a question. I don't want to have barbs thrown at me because of it.

Is it possible, Senna, that poems you consider poor may be considered good by others? Or is it possible that your definition of poetry is merely one of many?

I know we should post our opinions with reasons why we feel the poem is bad or good, or why certain elements work or don't work. But in the end, it is all opinion. And I always take comments about my poetry (justified or not), as opinion.

When you plan exciting trips, you should discuss the interesting roads, paths and directions and not the worthless, hopeless dead ends. Learning from mistakes has only a very limited potential, especially when mistakes are not acknowledged, not even recognized.

Again, I agree with you here. I just feel that people see interesting things in hopeless dead-ends as well as on scenic thru-ways. Is it possible to nod to someone else's opinion, then present your own as an alternative? And I address this to everyone, not just Senna.

Just asking...


Cordelia

 

[HomerPindar]

Re: Re: Re: Premenstrual board syndrome

iginally posted by Cordelia [/i]
asking...


Cordelia [/QUOTE]

Actually...I'm just breaking in here to tackle Cordie witha hug and a great big wet lick...oh, sorry, kiss.

typo...honest

HomerPindar

 

[Senna Jawa]

COCKROACH!!!

HomerPindar

IDIOT! IDIOT! IDIOT!     I love them.


idiots


    birds, basically, are idiots
    birds eat and sing a lot
    fly up high, and nest
    they are wonderful
    and, basically, they are idiots

    stones, basically, are idiots
    obstinate, hardly move at all
    get hot in the sun
    cold in cold streams
    some are smooth
    some have rough texture
    in the shadow
    they grow moss touched by no blade
    and, basically, they are idiots

    experience shows
    that, basically,
    there are only three ways to treat idiots:

    to love them, to ignore them,  or
    to become one of'em


Wlodzimierz Holsztynski ©
       1991-04-17

 

[HomerPindar]

IDIOT! IDIOT! IDIOT!     I love them.

ah, once again the egotist is reveal for having to talk about himself...

damn cockroaches

HomerPindar

 

[KillerMuffin]

I liked all of those particular poems by 03sp. I found them recommendation worthy. You did not. Ask me if I actually care about your so-called opinion. You do not promote the growth of poetry in others, you tear them down as maliciously as you can. You believe too much of your own hype. You are not a right of passage. You are not the critic. You are no better than anyone on this board.

If you want to discuss hypocrisy, start with the guy in the mirror.

 

[HomerPindar]

I liked all of those particular poems by 03sp. I found them recommendation worthy. You did not. Ask me if I actually care about your so-called opinion. You do not promote the growth of poetry in others, you tear them down as maliciously as you can. You believe too much of your own hype. You are not a right of passage. You are not the critic. You are no better than anyone on this board.

If you want to discuss hypocrisy, start with the guy in the mirror.

alright champ *rubbing down your shoulders* start on that left side, 'ez weak der, *rub down on the right arm* den hit em with dat uppercut of yuz...you can take em...

DING DING DING

HomerPindar

 

[Senna Jawa]

If you want to discuss hypocrisy, start with the guy in the mirror.

I didn't know that you were standing in front of a mirror. I leave that discussion to the two of you anyway.

 

[pointless]

I didn't know that you were standing in front of a mirror. I leave that discussion to the two of you anyway.

that's bad. 1 out of 10 tops.

 

[HomerPindar]

that's bad. 1 out of 10 tops.

see, now, that's just feeding the roaches...

let em starve! HA, that'll chase em back under the fridge right fast! We don't wanna see em...!

Keep a light on, turn off the roaches!


HomerPindar

 

[pointless]

see, now, that's just feeding the roaches...

let em starve! HA, that'll chase em back under the fridge right fast! We don't wanna see em...!

Keep a light on, turn off the roaches!


HomerPindar

i couldn't help it. it must be my gb experience creeping back in. i couldn't resist.

i admit it. i'm spiteful. someday that might change, but not today.

i will refrain from now on though. i promise. cross my heart.

 

[HomerPindar]

i couldn't help it. it must be my gb experience creeping back in. i couldn't resist.

i admit it. i'm spiteful. someday that might change, but not today.

i will refrain from now on though. i promise. cross my heart.

hahahahaha

you know, it wouldn't be so bad, but cockroaches love livin in the shit, the feed on spite...

HomerPindar

 

[Rybka]

Re: Re: Premenstrual board syndrome

Each crisis has its price. Especially when nothing is resolved, when there is no clear conclusion. Then nothing is gained, and something (invisible? perhaps, but HUGE) is lost. For instance, discussions about poetry are difficult by its very nature but Eve has supported Angeline's proposition to make them still more difficult by imposing superficial choo-choo rules. That's only a small portion of the penalty/price the board pays for its unresolved crisis--a certain loss of honesty. Admit it, regulars, you don't want a poetic board, you want a false choo-choo chat board with cheap friendship claims. As long as there is a negative perception of straight comments about poems combined with a tolerance for rude, PERSONAL attacks, it is hard to discuss poetry here. At least I share but a small fraction of what I would otherwise, there are many comments which were never posted here. This may be true about others too. Eve has mentioned more than once about her selfcensorship. Possible jokes about not wanting more of the honest comments notwithstanding, this is not a good situation. When a person after a person writes that six or eight or twelve new SP's poems are all good it is a nonsense, they simply didn't even pay much attention to them, they have hardly read them at all and digested nothing. I am not saying that these poems are or are not good/bad, but such mechanical statements along the established here on this forum "convention" have their price, artistic and social--the honesty. All this "friendly choo-choo" here is sick. In particular a lot of time is wasted on "discussing" and praising poor poems. When you plan exciting trips, you should discuss the interesting roads, paths and directions and not the worthless, hopeless dead ends. Learning from mistakes has only a very limited potential, especially when mistakes are not acknowledged, not even recognized. You need positive examples to positively learn the craft. Instead, lousy choo-choo examples pass for good poems. Truly good poems are mentioned here rarely, almost accidentally, and are swamped by the choo-choo poems and choo-choo comments.

OK, never mind, go back to your ever a lot longer smootchy-choo-choo period of the cycle. And don't forget to be always instantly ready to get mean and snotty and rude and hipocritical, just in case, right?

Senna, I can't object to anything but your last paragraph. Do you enjoy inciting antagonism? Doesn't your strict and harsh, but honest (in your view) criticism get you enough? Can you never build? Must you always tear down, and sometimes personally? Even you were a fledgling poet at one time, weren't you? Throw them a worm occasionally. If you kill all the new poetry fans, who will mourn you when we feed you to the worms?





Regards,                                 Rybka

 

[HomerPindar]

Re: Re: Re: Premenstrual board syndrome

Senna, I can't object to anything but your last paragraph. Do you enjoy inciting antagonism? Doesn't your strict and harsh, but honest (in your view) criticism get you enough? Can you never build? Must you always tear down, and sometimes personally? Even you were a fledgling poet at one time, weren't you? Throw them a worm occasionally. If you kill all the new poetry fans, who will mourn you when we feed you to the worms?





Regards,                                 Rybka

mourn cockroaches...? Rybka, you are one silly fish...

HomerPindar

 

[Senna Jawa]

Re: Re: Re: Premenstrual board syndrome

Senna, [...] who will mourn you when we feed you to the worms?

Regards,                                 Rybka

You mean to feed me to HomeCockroaches? HomeCockroaches are fed on KillerMuffins and they excrete ill-formatted HomeWorks, based on thoughtless copying of the second hand materials and phrases from class.

I would not allow to turn such HomeWorks. In particular I had allotted students just so much space for their homework and would take points away if they exceeded it. But schools need students' tuitions and student count (to justify their existence) so bad that they don't fail "students" fast enough, they do not cut the branch on which they sit. Instead, they give them C or even A for effort (the longer HomeWork the greater "effort" and HomeCoockroaches get C or better regardless of the contents).

I gave up a time ago on the security of the Full Professorship + tenure position because I could not stand such a situation. Especially that my fellow faculty members were playing that game along willingly since it didn't require any nonroutine teaching effort. When I suggested certain examination problems, still easy problems but which would separate students who think from those who don't, other teachers had objected almost violently: we have enough of your tricky propositions. But mine were not tricky. They just required a simple understanding of the material instead of monkey repetitions. So I said good-bye.

 

[Rybka]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Premenstrual board syndrome

You mean to feed me to HomeCockroaches? HomeCockroaches are fed on KillerMuffins and they excrete ill-formatted HomeWorks, based on thoughtless copying of the second hand materials and phrases from class.

I would not allow to turn such HomeWorks. In particular I had allotted students just so much space for their homework and would take points away if they exceeded it. But schools need students' tuitions and student count (to justify their existence) so bad that they don't fail "students" fast enough, they do not cut the branch on which they sit. Instead, they give them C or even A for effort (the longer HomeWork the greater "effort" and HomeCoockroaches get C or better regardless of the contents).

I gave up a time ago on the security of the Full Professorship + tenure position because I could not stand such a situation. Especially that my fellow faculty members were playing that game along willingly since it didn't require any nonroutine teaching effort. When I suggested certain examination problems, still easy problems but which would separate students who think from those who don't, other teachers had objected almost violently: we have enough of your tricky propositions. But mine were not tricky. They just required a simple understanding of the material instead of monkey repetitions. So I said good-bye.

Senna Jawa, I do respect your accomplishments, your intellect and your poetry. I do not like to say, but I feel I must, that I do not respect your social skills. Just because you may be right does not give you the right to rub the other person's face in dung.
A. Einstein once said, " I understand that the vote of one idiot is equal to the vote of one genius, but I don't understand how the votes of two idiots is greater than that of one genius." - Sorry to tell you S.J., but they are.

Regards,                                 Rybka

 

[Angeline]

senna jawa said:

Each crisis has its price. Especially when nothing is resolved, when there is no clear conclusion. Then nothing is gained, and something (invisible? perhaps, but HUGE) is lost. For instance, discussions about poetry are difficult by its very nature but Eve has supported Angeline's proposition to make them still more difficult by imposing superficial choo-choo rules. That's only a small portion of the penalty/price the board pays for its unresolved crisis--a certain loss of honesty. Admit it, regulars, you don't want a poetic board, you want a false choo-choo chat board with cheap friendship claims. As long as there is a negative perception of straight comments about poems combined with a tolerance for rude, PERSONAL attacks, it is hard to discuss poetry here. At least I share but a small fraction of what I would otherwise, there are many comments which were never posted here. This may be true about others too. Eve has mentioned more than once about her selfcensorship. Possible jokes about not wanting more of the honest comments notwithstanding, this is not a good situation. When a person after a person writes that six or eight or twelve new SP's poems are all good it is a nonsense, they simply didn't even pay much attention to them, they have hardly read them at all and digested nothing. I am not saying that these poems are or are not good/bad, but such mechanical statements along the established here on this forum "convention" have their price, artistic and social--the honesty. All this "friendly choo-choo" here is sick. In particular a lot of time is wasted on "discussing" and praising poor poems. When you plan exciting trips, you should discuss the interesting roads, paths and directions and not the worthless, hopeless dead ends. Learning from mistakes has only a very limited potential, especially when mistakes are not acknowledged, not even recognized. You need positive examples to positively learn the craft. Instead, lousy choo-choo examples pass for good poems. Truly good poems are mentioned here rarely, almost accidentally, and are swamped by the choo-choo poems and choo-choo comments.

OK, never mind, go back to your ever a lot longer smootchy-choo-choo period of the cycle. And don't forget to be always instantly ready to get mean and snotty and rude and hipocritical, just in case, right?

Ok Mr. senna jawa. I have you on "ignore" but, since I saw this ridiculous, threat-laden diatribe in Rybka's post, I'm going to respond.

Point 1:

Each crisis has its price.

An empty threat. In other words, if we don't all accept critiques exactly as *you* want them done, our poetry will suffer even more than it already does.

Wrong. Many people here want balanced feedback. I do. I even started a "workshop" thread to try to encourage critical reviews and put my own poem up first. Eve is right though when she says there is no purpose in critiquing poems if people are uninterested in it. There are enough people here asking for feedback to keep reviewers more than busy (and frankly Eve is the only one here who offers constructive crits on a regular basis anyway--she has more room to complain than you).

And you know I agree that the more feedback a serious poet receives the better, but there is a big difference between:

words/phrases x, y, and z are trite, and you need to lose them

or even

this poem doesn't work for the following reasons and you need to start over

and the following quotes that I took from your own posts and that you seem to think are "straight comments":

A hopeless text, pityful junk

and

This one is his another half-cooked, half-baked, prematurely aborted handicapped fetus.

Senna, if you honestly think such comments are "straight" and "objective," you are seriously delusional. You want some trivia? Here's some: in your two comments are 16 words; of them 9 are subjectively negative and value-laden. That's more than half. In fact, if we eliminate articles and pronouns--which are almost always objective anyway, we have 12 words, 10 of which are unnecessarily harsh. I don't need to be a mathematician to add that up.

Point 2:

Angeline's proposition

This so-called "proposition" is nothing new. If you weren't so personally nasty and crude in your so-called critiques, I never would have said it. And bear in mind that no one told you not to speak your mind--all I suggested (as did Eve for that matter) is that you say what you want in another thread.

In any case, there has been an ongoing debate on this board since it started about how "honest" lit poets want their feedback to be. The general concensus has always been honest is good; cruel is not. In one of his earliest posts here, Unmasked Poet acknowledged that some people don't want negative feedback and suggested that they let it be known, in writing (that they don't), after which they would not receive such feedback.

And to suggest that Eve is choosing friendship over a balanced view of what's good for this board is personally insulting to her and me. I would never want Eve or anyone to base an opinion on whether they're my friend. That's both ridiculous and further evidence of your twisted thinking. Take a look at something Eve said in January of 2002, before she and I ever met.

I believe in positive reinforcement. Praise those who contribute to our little world. Ignore the stupid or insensitive things others do-- when possible. Don't just complain about our problems-- find solutions like some of us are doing now! When you're angry, think before you type.

To the pissed-off poets (I know there are a few): put your feelings in a poem. That'll make for some interesting reading. lol No need to name names. Most of us are creative enough to let everyone know who and what we're talking about. I'm serious! Write! Post your creation on this thread if you'd like. It's aconstructive way to let off some steam.

[And in an aside, Eve, I agree. I just didn't feel it was possible to ignore this time.]

Point 3:

As long as there is a negative perception of straight comments about poems combined with a tolerance for rude, PERSONAL attacks,...

Well, we see in your own quotes what you think are "straight comments." But for you, author of late of some of the most personally vicious and childish claptrap I've ever seen to accuse *others* of rude, personal attacks is--at best--laughable. Oh yes, people attack you, but you invariably push them to it with your own behavior.

Perhaps you forget that I defended you after you posted your thinly disguised "prose poem" about the ineducable kindergarten monkeys playing in shit. Remember that?

More recently, your palpable rage was evident after smithpeter made one mild comment about your "pityful junk" critique. (You seem to despise him for reasons unknown to me--how could you possibly rant so much just because you don't like his poems? I don't like Melville, but gosh senna I'm not shreiking over it--and lots of people praise him.) Smithpeter's one comment threw you into your current tantrum, during which you've lashed out at anyone in your field of virtual vision.

What about the poor guy who wrote a poem about his lover, in which you responded by changing the last two lines to intimate she is a prostitute? Nothing personal there, right? Just advancing poetry. How about if I call someone you love a whore? Really, nothing personal, just an intellectual exercise you understand. Does it *feel* impersonal to you? And I'll cut you a break by not even getting into what such behavoir says about your attitude toward women.

And then, after all this, you have the chutzpah to whine about your mistreatment and our hypocrisy? You are not thinking logically at all.

Point 4:
Learning from mistakes has only a very limited potential, especially when mistakes are not acknowledged, not even recognized. You need positive examples to positively learn the craft.

Consider your own statement senna jawa because unless you can calm down and recognize that you don't know everything and that your way is neither singular nor infallible, you will continue to alienate the very people you claim to want to help.

Here is an old joke I know that I think illustrates the effects of your "positive examples." (And remember, it's a joke, the point is what counts.)

A scientist doing research on motivation puts a lovely insect in front of a frog, just out of its reach, and says "Jump, frog." The clever frog jumps and catches the fly. Then the scientist cuts off the frog's foot, and puts out another insect. The frog struggles, off-balance, but gets the insect. The scientist then amputates its leg, puts out another insect, and says "Jump, frog, jump." The frog with great difficulty manages to jump. The scientist cuts off the frog's other foot, and says "Jump!" The frog can no longer jump, but incredibly drags itself along the table to eat the insect. The scientist then cuts off ithe frog's remaining leg and puts down another insect and says "Jump, frog!" The frog looks at the scientist, closes its eyes, and dies. The scientist notes in his lab book "Frog has lost motivation."

Think about it.

Best Regards,
Angeline

 

[KillerMuffin]

Let's try plain English. Senna Jawa is a complete hypocrite.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Ok Mr. senna jawa. I have you on "ignore" but, since I saw this ridiculous, threat-laden diatribe in Rybka's post, I'm going to respond.

That's childish. You want to eat the cake and have it too. Make up your mind. Either you want to publicly insult me that you "ignore" me (oh, no, what will poor me do?), then do so, or have a conversation. You can't have both.