Pregnant US man (transgender) defends right to have child

sweetnpetite

Intellectual snob
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Jan 10, 2003
Posts
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This is not a hoax, they were talking about it on The View this morning.

NEW YORK (AFP) - Thomas Beatie, a US man who was born female, underwent gender realignment surgery and is now pregnant, has sparked renewed debate in the United States about the rights of transgender individuals.

Beatie, who is legally male but decided to keep his female sex organs during chest reconstruction surgery and testosterone therapy, has appeared in several magazines and on Oprah Winfrey's talkshow since revealing that he is pregnant.

"I feel it's not a male or female desire to have a child. It's a human need. I'm a person and I have the right to have a biological child," Beatie told chat show host Winfrey this week, sporting a light beard.

His unusual situation first became public when he wrote an article in the leading US gay magazine The Advocate last month, entitled "Labor of Love."

"To our neighbors, my wife, Nancy, and I don't appear in the least unusual," he wrote, explaining that his wife was unable to have a child after undergoing a hysterectomy and that they had conceived by artificial insemination.

"Our situation sparks legal, political, and social unknowns," Beatie wrote, adding the couple had experienced opposition from health care professionals, friends and family.

One doctor refused to treat the couple, after consulting an ethics board.

"How does it feel to be a pregnant man? Incredible. Despite the fact that my belly is growing with a new life inside me, I am stable and confident being the man that I am," Beatie wrote.

While some have come out in support of Beatie's right to bear a child, and decried the discrimination that Beatie and other transgender individuals are up against, others have been less supportive.

"Seriously, how selfish Beatie is. He is not able to breastfeed, guaranteed, which is the single, most important thing you can do for your child nutrition-wise," said one letter-writer in the Advocate.

"It's called 'childbirth' and it is a 'female' thing -- not a 'male' thing. Period," wrote another.

"If I choose to not have 'bottom' surgery and keep my original genitals intact, as far as I'm concerned I've chosen to simply present as male, not become a male," said the writer, identified as Alicia "Joey" Brite.

But Robert Haaland, a female-to-male activist, said he believed most Americans were comfortable with the idea of Beatie bearing a child.

"The Beatie pregnancy is simply the Beaties' way of using the reproductive choices that were available to them. Most Americans can understand that," he wrote in The Advocate.
 
-sigh- why don't we just lay off? He/she is having a child...that is thier right. I mean, honestly, how many men out there...if thier wife wasn't able to conceive would honestly do the same in this persons place?
 
Transgender presents us with far more choices than most of us are comfortable with.

Back some years, there was an MTF who identified as a butch dyke... She stirred up some resentment because she seemed to feel she could teach us born women a better way to be a woman. Then she went and fell in love, and-- because she was still legally male-- was able to marry her girlfriend. At that point, much of the community just stopped talking to her. It just hurt too bad, yanno? She was talking gay and using hetero privilege at the same time. She could claim male anytime it suited her.

(edited to add) In light of jag's comment, mine makes even more sense-- I am sure there are some couples who really resent this man's luck.
 
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according to the story on The View, the couple is now worried that their marriage may not be considered legal and if their marriage is disolved a bunch of other issues arise such as insurance, inheritance, custody, parental rights, and if they should split up in the future.

Some have suggested domestic partnership, but the man said, "No we are not domestic partners. We are married."

They talked about how the child might be confused. (Mostly Elizabeth) but I don't think the child would be confused. the child has a mom and a dad. dad just happens to be a (human) seahorse.
 
Transgender presents us with far more choices than most of us are comfortable with.

Back some years, there was an MTF who identified as a butch dyke... She stirred up some resentment because she seemed to feel she could teach us born women a better way to be a woman. Then she went and fell in love, and-- because she was still legally male-- was able to marry her girlfriend. At that point, much of the community just stopped talking to her. It just hurt too bad, yanno? She was talking gay and using hetero privilege at the same time. She could claim male anytime it suited her.

A good reason why marriage should be between two consenting adults, eliminating any need to try to determine "legal gender" for people (as a prerequisit for marriage). I mean, if you think about it, those who are against same sex marriage didn't "win" here. They wouldn't have approved of that loophole anymore than y'all did. Maybe if these loopholes where exploited more publicly, the general public would realize that it's a pointless fight (preventing concenting adults from marrying) and move on to something like the economy or health care. I mean, there would still be the die-hards, but perhaps they could be dwindled down to a politically insignificant minority.
 
Hi Sweets,

Nothing to add, just wanted to say, Hi! You've been away a while.
 
A good reason why marriage should be between two consenting adults, eliminating any need to try to determine "legal gender" for people (as a prerequisit for marriage). I mean, if you think about it, those who are against same sex marriage didn't "win" here. They wouldn't have approved of that loophole anymore than y'all did. Maybe if these loopholes where exploited more publicly, the general public would realize that it's a pointless fight (preventing concenting adults from marrying) and move on to something like the economy or health care. I mean, there would still be the die-hards, but perhaps they could be dwindled down to a politically insignificant minority.
Oh believe me, we approve of any loophole that anyone can find! We just wish more of us could find them...
 
A good reason why marriage should be between two consenting adults, eliminating any need to try to determine "legal gender" for people (as a prerequisit for marriage). I mean, if you think about it, those who are against same sex marriage didn't "win" here. They wouldn't have approved of that loophole anymore than y'all did. Maybe if these loopholes where exploited more publicly, the general public would realize that it's a pointless fight (preventing concenting adults from marrying) and move on to something like the economy or health care. I mean, there would still be the die-hards, but perhaps they could be dwindled down to a politically insignificant minority.

Meh the problem is...when we allow those whom really shouldn't speak...to speak. I mean, in all honesty, take a look at people like [dare I say?] the Rev. Al Sharpton and Obama's minister? Yes yes, I know, treading on sacred ground here, but let me clear the air first. I am not racist, I see people as...people, I do not see color or creed, just a person, and all people, as was once famously said, are created equal. But people exploit laws, and complain loudly to the point that others do things to shut them up. Even if, the things they do, turn out to be more racist than the things that people were screaming about. Yet, we give these people power, saying that they are right and listening in on them. If we could shush these people by ignoring them, then perhaps the world would be better off?
 
This is where defining gender and sex as two different things (legally, ethically, medically, socially, whateverly) really comes in handy.

In my personal vocabulary, I would consider Mr. Beatie's gender to be male, his sex female (because he possesses a non-ambiguously functioning female reproductive system).

Is that vocabulary usage suitable?
 
This is certainly a unique situation but, as far as I can see, it is nobody's business but that of the pregnant man and his wife. :cool: I can't help wondering about the doctor who refused to treat him, and wonder about just how ethical that ethics board was. :(
 
Why can't people stay out of other people's bedrooms?

I can understand why Thomas and Nancy went public with this, could you imagine the headlines in the Examiner, Enquirer etc!

As for Elizabeth's panic over explaination to the child, come on, lets get real. When was the last time you explained you were male or female to your child? A child only sees the outward appearence, unless Thomas is doing things with the child he shouldn't be there would be no questions. Once the child was old enough to understand, imo late teens or into their 20's it would be time to discuss this. Hopefully the parents and the child start councilling at the same time.

Too often people make a big deal over stuff that really has no effect on them personally, why? Just to hear themselves talk!
C
 
My take on this whole damn thing is entirely different. So he got knocked up. Who cares?

Then he ran to NBC, CBS ABC, CNN and IPN to get them to carry the story. They weren't interested. So finally he found Rupert Murdock's SUN in London. After the story broke there, all the other news services picked it up.

What the fuck is up with this guy? He wants to have a kid? Great? But the idea that he ran all over the world looking for publicity make me suspicious of his motives. Then he is making the morning talk show circuit. Now I'm even more suspicious. Is this asshole a publicity hound or is this a fake?

Now, let's jump ahead a few years. Little Tommy-Two-Moms is now 6 and entering first grade. He's marked. He's different. He's screwed because that asshole of a "father" exposed him. Now the kid has to live with it.

If this were in L.A. or San Francisco, it would be different. Those people are nuts anyway. But this is happening in a small town in Oregon not that far from me. What he has done will mark that kid for the rest of his life. People in small villages in Oregon never forget. He will always be the "Weird Kid who..."
 
I heard about this on 20/20. I'm sickened by how homophobic and xenophobic our society is.
 
I heard about this on 20/20. I'm sickened by how homophobic and xenophobic our society is.

Of course it is. Especially in Ultra Conservative Right Wing Praise God Hallaluah George Bush is God and Dick Chaney's a Genius small town Oregon where this guy is living.
 
...
Now, let's jump ahead a few years. Little Tommy-Two-Moms is now 6 and entering first grade. He's marked. He's different. He's screwed because that asshole of a "father" exposed him. Now the kid has to live with it.
Eh, Jenny. You'd be amazed at the amount of trouble that won't happen.

My son was born in a small town in Pennsylvania, and I named him after our country's most beautiful canid predator ;)

One of our neighbors was a bit upset by this; he warned us of the horrible teasing that our boy would endure. He went on and on until my husband asked him; "Mark, has your life been any easier because your name is Mark? " Which shut him up.
 
I watched the show on Oprah and from what she explained and what Thomas added was that someone in their area had heard 'something' and the family wanted to go public and tell their side before it became a scandle that they couldn't hide from.

They went to 20/20 and Oprah to expose the truth of their situation. I imagine within a short period of time after the child's birth they will have to relocate so no one will knw them-maybe some area that doesn't have cable! lol

I do wish them well, it sickens me that so many people care what others are doing in their bedroom. The church organization that I belong to is in a heated battle over blessings and marriage of gay and lesbians. To be honest, I like our minister so I would rather not know his stand on it but after reading many articles and letters to the editor for the diosenes (sp) newspaper I am begining to wonder if Im at the right place right now.

C
 
I watched the show on Oprah and from what she explained and what Thomas added was that someone in their area had heard 'something' and the family wanted to go public and tell their side before it became a scandle that they couldn't hide from.

They went to 20/20 and Oprah to expose the truth of their situation. I imagine within a short period of time after the child's birth they will have to relocate so no one will knw them-maybe some area that doesn't have cable! lol

I do wish them well, it sickens me that so many people care what others are doing in their bedroom. The church organization that I belong to is in a heated battle over blessings and marriage of gay and lesbians. To be honest, I like our minister so I would rather not know his stand on it but after reading many articles and letters to the editor for the diosenes (sp) newspaper I am begining to wonder if Im at the right place right now.

C
I take it that the letters you're reading are against?

It is tough to stand up and speak out, I know. But you might consider adding your voice and weight to the "for" side. One letter saying "Yes" might encourage another letter saying "yes." Yes? :)
 
I can't stop thinking about Loretta, the man in "The Life of Brian," who demanded the right to have a baby.

"Where's the fetus gonna gestate? In a box?"





Thought:

Wouldn't it be a peaceful world if its worst problem was that there weren't enough children to go around?
 
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I don't see anything he/she needs to defend one bit....................:)

Fuck'em all
 
This is not a hoax, they were talking about it on The View this morning.

NEW YORK (AFP) - Thomas Beatie, a US man who was born female, underwent gender realignment surgery and is now pregnant, has sparked renewed debate in the United States about the rights of transgender individuals.

Out of curiosity, and off the subject, do you consider the fact of being discussed on "The View" as proof that a certain subject is NOT a hoax?:confused: I remember one time hearing Rosie discussing the US government's culpability in the 9-11 attack. :eek:
 
I take it that the letters you're reading are against?

It is tough to stand up and speak out, I know. But you might consider adding your voice and weight to the "for" side. One letter saying "Yes" might encourage another letter saying "yes." Yes? :)

You are correct, I think there is an average of 10 letters/copy, and since January (when I started to read them again) there has been only ONE letter saying its no ones business to know who you are having sex with.

My delema is how to say it. I have started three letters so far and if I knew the bible more so I could quote scriptures of "God loving all people" etc. I would feel I have more to base my letter on.

To be honest, at first I worried about how I would be treated at church after my letter would be read. Then I figured, I have nothing invested in the people of my church. I have been a member there for 39 years, if they want to judge me for accepting that people make joices that are different than my own, so be it. I could really stir up the pot and convince one of my girlfriends to start coming to church with me, (my husband rarely attends).

If there was someone that would like to help me write the letter who is serious and sincere Id greatly accept the offer.

C
 
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