Praise be to the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

[Joe Wordsworth]

I have to go to war with my thesis mentor.

She gave me a "C" on my dissertation, and I strongly suspect its because we have ended up at odds a few too many times. We had a firm disagreement as the the importance of Logic (she was of the opinion it was a superfluous instruction for just about everyone but philosophers), then I disagreed with the relevance of a particular book she made me read... and now, she's branded me with a "C".

War.

I get the comments back, today, and I have /no/ idea how the work merited that low of a score. Oooo, I hate young professors sometimes. Especially ones that dis Reason.

Stupid whore.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Joe, it's hard to believe you'd have a disagreement with someone. Still, you have my blessings, son.

The Right Rev Rumple Foreskin http://bestsmileys.com/religous/1.gif

 

[cloudy]

I have to go to war with my thesis mentor.

She gave me a "C" on my dissertation, and I strongly suspect its because we have ended up at odds a few too many times. We had a firm disagreement as the the importance of Logic (she was of the opinion it was a superfluous instruction for just about everyone but philosophers), then I disagreed with the relevance of a particular book she made me read... and now, she's branded me with a "C".

War.

I get the comments back, today, and I have /no/ idea how the work merited that low of a score. Oooo, I hate young professors sometimes. Especially ones that dis Reason.

Stupid whore.

You may disagree with her, but I highly doubt that she's "stupid." After all, it is she who is in the position to grade your work.

As an aside, why are men so fond of calling women "stupid" when they disagree with them?

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

As an aside, why are men so fond of calling women "stupid" when they disagree with them?

Maybe it's something picked up from women.

Rumple (retreating) Foreskin

 

[minsue]

Maybe it's something picked up from women.

Rumple (retreating) Foreskin

Run, Rumple, run!

 

[oggbashan]

The art of getting good grades is to study the person who gives them.

My father had trouble when he started studying for his first degree in his 80s. He was studying a politics and sociology module. His tutor, and grade provider, was into Marxist theories that my father thought were fatuous.

His first essay was given an F. My father considered the remarks written on it and decided that he would have to write his essays to fit his tutor's prejudices. He had practice at tailoring reports for changing Ministers of different political parties. After them, a tutor was easy. He never had another grade lower than B. He didn't believe what he wrote but he considered that unnecessary. What he wanted to do was pass. If that was the way the system worked - that is the way to play it.

He got his degree. He decided against continuing to a doctorate. He already had several honorary ones.

Og

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

You may disagree with her, but I highly doubt that she's "stupid." After all, it is she who is in the position to grade your work.

As an aside, why are men so fond of calling women "stupid" when they disagree with them?

After our disagreement about Logic--I hold her intellect in a /low/ regard. An unfortunate, but highly honest, truth. And I don't know that there's a more frequent calling of women "stupid" than men--I use the term emotively, having nothing to do with her gender.

The art of getting good grades is to study the person who gives them.

My father had trouble when he started studying for his first degree in his 80s. He was studying a politics and sociology module. His tutor, and grade provider, was into Marxist theories that my father thought were fatuous.

His first essay was given an F. My father considered the remarks written on it and decided that he would have to write his essays to fit his tutor's prejudices. He had practice at tailoring reports for changing Ministers of different political parties. After them, a tutor was easy. He never had another grade lower than B. He didn't believe what he wrote but he considered that unnecessary. What he wanted to do was pass. If that was the way the system worked - that is the way to play it.

He got his degree. He decided against continuing to a doctorate. He already had several honorary ones.

Og

That's /really/ true. One of the biggest problems I had with my first couple of degrees was that I write and work without regard to my audience (the professor) and more regard to the field (usually Philosophy). Which makes for very coherant and difficult to argue with projects that may outright offend the sensibilities of the grader. i was /never/ too good at just doing an assignment for the professor's scrutiny--even minor things I would do with regard to maybe presenting it, as is, to a larger academic audience.

This project? It was just too big for me to write for her. She recommended two books for the thesis, but neither of them were very good or informative--and I make mention of that in the paper (that there were other resources on the issue, but they were inadequate for X, Y, and Z reasons).

 

[Selena_Kitt]

This project? It was just too big for me to write for her. She recommended two books for the thesis, but neither of them were very good or informative--and I make mention of that in the paper (that there were other resources on the issue, but they were inadequate for X, Y, and Z reasons).

I had a friend who was denied her Masters degree because they refused her thesis... even after it had already been approved by her advisor (who ended up leaving for health reasons) etc. It was a total personality conflict. She had written things that this panel of women felt were sexist and anti-feminist (they really weren't) and they took a stand on her thesis. She fought it, and eventually won, and got her degree. She refused to rewrite and compromise like they wanted her to.

So go for it, Joe. Sometimes your intellect or understanding is greater or at least in a different place than the "almighty instructor." They're just people. Fallible.

And I'll forgive the "stupid whore" comment... I understand your anger.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

And I'll forgive the "stupid whore" comment... I understand your anger.

I figured "emoting" a little about it might show a little more dimension in me.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I figured "emoting" a little about it might show a little more dimension in me.

yeah, cuz you hold back so much...

I got it... you're pissed... and it sounds to me like you have a right to be.

 

[English Lady]

I have to go to war with my thesis mentor.

She gave me a "C" on my dissertation, and I strongly suspect its because we have ended up at odds a few too many times. We had a firm disagreement as the the importance of Logic (she was of the opinion it was a superfluous instruction for just about everyone but philosophers), then I disagreed with the relevance of a particular book she made me read... and now, she's branded me with a "C".

War.

I get the comments back, today, and I have /no/ idea how the work merited that low of a score. Oooo, I hate young professors sometimes. Especially ones that dis Reason.

Stupid whore.

Uh- oh. I do believe this was a wrong move on her behalf. *shakes head*

I am sure you've got what it takes to fight this one out and win!

Go get'em tiger!

 

[Liar]

I get the comments back, today, and I have /no/ idea how the work merited that low of a score. Oooo, I hate young professors sometimes. Especially ones that dis Reason.

Interresting. I get the same kinda crap, but from the old professors. The younger ones don't expect me to grovel, so with them I can actually discuss topics openly.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Interresting. I get the same kinda crap, but from the old professors. The younger ones don't expect me to grovel, so with them I can actually discuss topics openly.

For me, its been the opposite, the tenured and tempered old hands in the philosophy department tend to be pretty direct and sound in their judgements--and open to analysis of them (but, they tend to defend their assertions really well).

I contested a paper, once, with one of the older professors a few years ago. The topic was "Are there objective norms?" (basically, are there objective value-judgements out there from "chocolate /is/ good" to "murder /is/ wrong", and if so what are they). The thesis class was about nine of us and everyone had to present their papers.

A few people borrowed this or that philosopher's opinion and defended it as they would (totally legit, nothing wrong with that). One might say "Oh, the existentialists had it right when they said X, because of Y and Z"; or one would write "Plato's forms have strong evidence toward objective norms because X and Y".

My paper was fifteen pages of "here's the three possible ways we /would/ know if there were objective norms" and then "here's the sort of norms those methods could come up with and what kinds they cannot conclude" and then "here's why each of those ways are unjustified" with a conclusion of "I don't know" at the end.

A very well ordered and perfectly reasoned "I don't know". I didn't even assert that someone /couldn't/ know, just that I could not conclude anything objectively and truthfully.

The class responded with "Ummm... yeah, I wrote something else entirely but I agree with him". Professor gave me a "D" on the project.

When I went to his office to argue with him about it, ready to whip out the soundness and utter dominance of my reasoning--how it was perfect logic and perfect analysis... he listened to my argument and basically summed it up with "You committed a fallacy of denying the question."

Which... yes... technically was true.

I didn't like it, but he was /right/.

 

[Pure]

another pov,

joe,

ultimately a thesis is pass/fail. no one will care about the grade. you're free to show to some other prof. for comment, should you need a recommendation.

'the best revenge is to do well.' rather than politic, publish. a rejected thesis in our philos. dept became a book with nice blurbs on it. spin articles from it; referees are not so political and may give you a fair shake. keep in mind theses are generally read only by people who had to read them [committee]; most sit on shelves gathering dust.

the thesis and/or degree involved is simply the passkey to do some serious writing and establish yourself in the professional world through publications.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

joe,

ultimately a thesis is pass/fail. no one will care about the grade. you're free to show to some other prof. for comment, should you need a recommendation.

'the best revenge is to do well.' rather than politic, publish. a rejected thesis in our philos. dept became a book with nice blurbs on it. spin articles from it; referees are not so political and may give you a fair shake. keep in mind theses are generally read only by people who had to read them [committee]; most sit on shelves gathering dust.

the thesis and/or degree involved is simply the passkey to do some serious writing and establish yourself in the professional world through publications.

All true. But I get the principle of the thing.

I still say go for it, Joe.

 

[S-Des]

My brother was a straight A student in school. In Junior High, he came across a teacher who was a complete ass-wipe. I forget which subject, but the teacher had him at an 'F'. My mother (the patron saint of all warriors) came to the school ready to have it out with this moron. In front of the principle, he admitted he couldn't back up his grade because he didn't keep records. He graded "fluidly". In the end, after going through the principle and the school board, she had to admit defeat. The teacher eventually passed him with a 'D', but there was nothing anyone could do to fix the problem.

Selena's right. Teachers (whether in grade school, high school, college, or beyond) are just people and can be as completely clueless as the next person. Just because they were good at studying, doing homework and passing tests, doesn't mean they have a superior intellect. They can also be biased and narrow-minded, which can make them appear more stupid than they really are.

Good luck with your problem. Just like in any profession, there will always be someone who is far more interested in the people who kiss their ass than the people who take their work seriously. Figuring out how to handle this person might be a very helpful lesson in life (see...college can teach you something after all ).

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Figuring out how to handle this person might be a very helpful lesson in life (see...college can teach you something after all)

I agree...

but there's something to be said about not compromising your principles or having to "write down" to someone's level. This is just one example of the many problems with the education system...

 

[oggbashan]

I agree...

but there's something to be said about not compromising your principles or having to "write down" to someone's level. This is just one example of the many problems with the education system...

It is a problem with any human-devised system that attempts to grade people.

I spent many years trying to even out gradings of employees by their supervisors. We had a three tier system - the first line manager graded the employee on performance of the job; the second line manager edited the performance grade (with reasons) and graded the employee's potential for advancement; the third line manager edited the advancement grade and tried to achieve a fair balance across all the employees in his unit.

My task was to moderate the balance achieved by the third line managers at a round table discussion. Some first and second line supervisors thought all their geese were swans; some thought they were all useless ducks. Some supervisors encouraged their staff to achieve and improve; some discouraged initiative; some marked staff down for advancement because they didn't want to lose a good worker...

Despite all that, some people were graded unfairly. There were other ways to compensate but even those weren't infalliable.

What did work was that everybody involved understood the system. As well as being assessors, they themselves were assessed including on their competence as assessors.

But if a supervisor was an ass-licking syncophant, he (usually he) might mark an employee as his boss wanted the mark to be and not on objective criteria.

Human nature will wreck any system.

Og

 

[Selena_Kitt]

It is a problem with any human-devised system that attempts to grade people...... Human nature will wreck any system.

I heartily agree...