POV - Writing from a different perspective:

[McKenna]

.

 

[Guest]

Hi McK,

Good question!

I've written about a group of people (in my NaNo novel). Some were English, some Scottish, one Canadian and quite a few (United State of ) Americans. The whole time I was writing I was mindful of the subtle differences between the nationallities, particularly with reagrd to the dialogue.

As I was writing it, one of my friends in the US read it, and he commented that a lot of the dialgue needed work. I am pretty familiar with Ameri-speak, as I have IM'd with this guy for many months (he also did NaNo and joined us here at the AH for a while), but I still slipped up, now and again. I had them saying "mate" and so on. So, he's given me loads of help with the edit so far, and suggested some alternatives.

If you'd like me to read through it, after you've done the first draft, I'd be more than happy to. Seriously.

Lou

 

[CharleyH]

Has anyone ever written a story where the characters, (and if writing in first person, yourself,) have been of a nationality different than your own?

I'm asking because I'm writing something with the POV of an English/British woman. I wondered if I were doing her justice, or if it were presumptuous of me to try to portray a nationality with which I am not all that familiar.

Granted, the nationality started out as "background" information, but now that I'm well and truly into the story, I'm wondering if my character has the label of English, but somehow acts American, given my own nationality and influence upon my character?

So here's my question: Have you ever written from the perspective of a nationality different than your own? Was it successful? Why or why not?


Thanks in advance for the serious and sane replies.

No - but this is a similar question to what I WOULD have asked tongiht. Research my dear (OMG _ I sound like an onld granny). Listen up on the threads - there are many Brits here who could answer you. I have written from a submissive pov, which is where I hate to be. Does that count? And it was difficult, and YET ACHIEVED!!!! It takes looking, talking, RESEARCH, all will CUM

 

[Wills]

McKenna,

I am writing a story about a young Portuguese catholic woman. Although the story is largely told through the eyes of a British male, I am told (by my Portuguese wife and others that have read part of the first draft) that I have managed to capture the essence of the girl in her language, emotions and attitude.

I was lucky in having grown to middle age in the company of a Portuguese woman and living in Portugal for at least part of my life has given me an insight into how to write the story, her dialogue, from her perspective. However, as a story it is as yet untested on a wider audience and my current readers may be sympathetically biased in my direction.

On a broader note, I have been 'accused' of being a female writer because of a certain sensitivity in writing the female POV. I am of course a British male Protestant.

Will's

 

[Guest]

Mack, I don't think I could write as or for anyone outside the states. I could not write a southern U.S. character well either, nor a New Englander.

I've lived with and know Brits but I could not write like one, or give them much authentic dialogue. I had a Brit character once say just a couple short sentences and Gauche fixed it for me; I had no clue.

My novel is mostly Mexicans and that's easy for me. For any other culture I'd have to read and study a lot, but I don't know that I'd try to do that (unless someone paid me to study the Venetians).

Lucky you to have Lou's offer.

Perdita

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Isn't the assumption that different nationalities have different characters very close to stereotyping?

What makes a woman Italian or French or British or American? How do you handle that without stooping to cartoon caricature?

Personally, I love ethnic caricature, but I wonder how more sensitive people see it.

---dr.M.

 

[Guest]

Mab., you caused me think of something that might prove interesting or helpful in this discussion. Over a few decades of 'going to the ballet' I came to know, (see and recognize) the major cultural styles and differences. The technique and steps of "classical ballet" are the same wherever they are taught, and there are great schools in the states, throughout Europe, Russia, and even Cuba.

If you have the Royal Ballet (English), the Mariinsky (Russian), La Scala (Italian) and ABT (U.S.) perform the same production of a classic work like "Swan Lake", with the same costumes, sets and choreography, you will hear the same music, follow the same story, and see the same steps, but each of the four companies will seem (visually) unique in style. For style you might subsitute taste or texture.

So culture/nationality does have physical emanations and distinctions. They get washed out here in the U.S., even lost, but outside our borders one's identity is deeper than constructed.

Perdita

 

[CharleyH]

Isn't the assumption that different nationalities have different characters very close to stereotyping?

What makes a woman Italian or French or British or American? How do you handle that without stooping to cartoon caricature?

Personally, I love ethnic caricature, but I wonder how more sensitive people see it.

---dr.M.

What make a man a big dick or snail dicK? How do men stop 'stooping' to their size? As always said, what size does a clit make? Or my throbbing - oh god! C nipples now - ouch? Make?

They are very sensitive M - VERY.

 

[McKenna]

.

 

[Guest]

 

[fifty5]

I'm questioning, I suppose, if a person's nationality has much to do with their personality?

My first response is "no." I lived and worked around Dutch men and women for a few years. Except for one or two supposedly more common traits among the Dutch (i.e. being stingy with money, or "zuinig,") the people I met and worked with were essentially the same as the people I would meet or work with here in the States. There were assholes and angels alike, regardless of race or nationality.

However, I'm wondering if I'm missing something. More study is needed. Perhaps an extended stay in England would be helpful?

Will work for room and board! *ahem* No, no.... not that kind of work!

I worked in Pakistan for some months (also got quite heavily involved with college exchanges with France).  Based on both of those, I'd definitely endorse your comment about assholes and angels.  The biggest national characteristic is turn-of-phrase.  Almost everything else is dwarfed by differences between individual people.  There are national, cultural norms, but between nominally christian countries, I don't think they are gross.  IMHO, if the dialogue fits, then the attitudes are unlikely to be a problem for credibility.  In my opinion, it's only when you cross religious boundaries as well that cultural differences stand any chance at all of dominating the difference between individuals.

My two-pennorth is that if the idiom in speech is OK, the rest will not be a problem.

- For what it's worth -

f5

 

[MaxSebastian]

I don't think this is necessarily about stereotyping national characters, it's about accuracy and believability in writing about characters of a different nationality to one's own.

I often write about American characters, though I'm English. To be honest, I don't usually worry too much about authenticity, I see enough Americans on TV and in the movies to know pretty much how to write one (although I don't really do US regional accents and so on).

But I probably get some of it wrong. No one's ever complained about that, so I don't worry too much most of the time.

Sometimes, though, I do see stories by Americans about British characters, and sometimes they are clearly written by an American without enough knowledge of the Brits. It's probably something I get wrong when I do it the other way, but there's nuances in the way we speak, there's words we use and don't use, style changes. It's not about character, or stereotyping national character, it's about cultural difference, language difference.

An American might say they're going to write someone about something, for example. A Brit would say they're going to write to someone about something. (I think).

And we use words like "bloke" instead of "guy", we use words like "mate" and "cheers". But if a non-American uses those words, sometimes they get the nuance wrong. American's hear us say "cheers" to each other at the end of a transaction, and some of them I speak to seem to have it in their minds that it is another way of saying "goodbye", which isn't quite the case. It's more like "thanks" (except when used in toasting someone).

Plus, sure we call people "mate" sometimes. Posh Brits don't, of course (class system, a whole 'nother ball game). But use it too often, or in a cheesy way, and you will sound like a pirate.

It's probably safe to ask a person of that national persuasion to take a look over your story before you submit it. If you can find one!

 

[Liar]

Isn't the assumption that different nationalities have different characters very close to stereotyping?

What makes a woman Italian or French or British or American? How do you handle that without stooping to cartoon caricature?

Personally, I love ethnic caricature, but I wonder how more sensitive people see it.

---dr.M.

I dunno if I'm a more sensetive person really, but I don't care all that much for it. From my experiance, I'd say that save a few cultural habits, the difference between individuals are far greater than the difference between locations.

So when i write, I really don't bother with tryong to find the typical Engish, Canadian, Japanese or Russian charachteristics of a personality. I read up a little of geographical and cultural particulars and then shape the characters I need for person tp person relations needed for the story.

Like MaxSebastian points out, the national differences are in the little details. But I don't think they make that much an impact on the actual stories.

#L

 

[damppanties]

McK,

All of my stories (on Lit) are written about a place/ places I've never been to. I've not had complaints yet. IMO, if you're not writing a historical piece or one where the 'period' is important, then the personality of people wouldn't hcnage from country to country. If you're writing about people, I think interaction between them would be the same regardles of where they were British or American -- especially if those are the only two places you're thinking about. Society and norms are pretty much same. The only problem you would have is with dialogue, which you can get over by having it edited by a person who knows his or her stuff.

 

[Wills]

I find myself in the strange position of agreeing with every post. Perdita's is probably the closest in attempting to summarize, through example, cultural differences.

Dr.M raises stereotyping - of course we stereotype, our world is largely a collection of snapshot media imagery. We are presented with images that others want us to see and form opinion based upon limited information.

Research is the key - either read up or visit, understand the culture you are trying to write about.

Differences in English vocabulary and word usage simply reflect cultural values. "Cheer's mate" would go down equally well in England or Australia but might raise eyebrows in Mid West US - where as "Bottom's up" - an English expression associated with drinking - might get you into trouble in some parts of the world.

When it comes to writing about a 'foreign' culture, you can tackle this in different ways. Get to understand the people, language and idioms of the culture, and write from a sound base, as Mck's seems capable of doing with her Dutch, or,
seek advice from a member of that culture, or,
fake it, add enough stereotypical imagery to swing the story down the path you want to go.

I guess for an average Lit. story, that would get you by, but for a novel, set in a specific location you need to have been there, observed behaviour, understood the nuances of the culture and the people, else it won't ring true.

In Europe, we have a stereotypical notion of the US and that perspective changes according to your cultural background. The French and British have quite different stereotypical images of the US founded in the political bias that each nation wishes to project to its own people. (Paranoid? - Moi?)

The US is quite a new country, largely founded by immigration from all corners of the world. (Always worth adding a little contention.) The media portrayed US stereotype bares little relationship to the cultural diversity within the country. Yet most Europeans would have little difficulty in writing a credible US based story simply because we are so familiar with the image projected at us, we know your language, culture, cities, prejudices, behaviours and customs. But they are just, for most of us, media projected images. A stereotype.

Will's

 

[damppanties]

I guess for an average Lit. story, that would get you by, but for a novel, set in a specific location you need to have been there, observed behaviour, understood the nuances of the culture and the people, else it won't ring true.

Thinking more about this, I agree with this part of Will's post. How deep are you going? You can probably gloss over most of the things but if you want to examine everything minutely then I'm sure you'll find subtle differences which will 'seem' wrong to some readers who actually take their time to enjoy a story. The more detail you write, the more you'll have to 'know' what you're writing about.

 

[oggbashan]

Failure admitted

My first 'erotic' story is still incomplete and will remain incomplete forever because it is beyond saving. I have alluded to it before.

I tried to write about a Balkan country in the mid 19th century. My Balkan colour was stereotypical - hearty peasant farmers, strong armed women in colourful costumes, family and interfamily feuding maintained over generations etc. More Ruritanian than Montenegrian.

I tried to introduce hydraulics, mechanics and ballistics into an erotic story. They did not help the plot to become valid.

I wasted pages on the loading procedure for a flintlock musket.

What really killed the story was the weak plot and the cardboard characters who never came to life.

It was a useful exercise because it taught me that I did not know enough to set a story in the Balkans. The more research I did the more ludicrous the story seemed.

I had been to Yugoslavia when it was still a Communist country and had met some rural people. That colour showed in faint glimmers but 20th Century islands of Yugoslavia and mid 19th Century 'somewhere in the rugged mountains' were too far apart. Since then I have stuck to what has been well described as "the comfort zone" - that with which I am familiar.

Unless you can get your story edited by someone who knows the people you are trying to portray I suspect you will make at least one glaring error. For example I have one story about 19th Century India and a sequel waiting attention. After some errors had been noticed I took the easy way out and set the story in a dream - an India that existed only in the imagination of one of my characters. Therefore any errors were explained by his faulty imagination. 'Cheat!' did I hear you say? It is a useful plot device and works.

Stick to what you know is safe but boring advice.

Og

 

[gauchecritic]

I've written stories where people are of a different nationality from my own, being paternally first generation Yorkshire, I grew up with people who were not of my nationality.

My last story (Hunting Dawn) has a family of war immigrants running a farm, they actually say very little but I included a few Russki phrases in order to give them flavour.
I received a feedback from someone with a .RU addy who I like to think was impressed, somehow, by the characterisation. But still, they were people I knew and were part of my heritage.

I posted somewhere recently about death and my feelings about such, saying that I was neither Mexican nor of the correct generation to properly consider my mortality. Which goes to show even here, that nationality doesn't play as big a role in people's make up as you might believe. That is to say, pre-war, working class grown-ups in England had a similar ambivilent attitude towards the 'fact' of death as does (in my understanding) the Mexican cultural outlook.

People are people and are different only from the outside.

Gauche

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I have written several stories wehre the main character's Nationality was not my own. But since I use the POV I do, I don't really think my experience helps much. I don't think it's beyond your skills Mckenna and since you cared enough to ask I think you are probably going to do a fine job with it. Careing about how you write the character is really the important part I think.

-Colly

 

[raphy]

I don't often write from the PoV of me (that is, a halfbreed English male) - I find it much more fun to make my protagonists different than I am.

"Well, Goddamn," was written from the PoV of the average stereotypical 'white red blooded american male', and from the feedback I recieved, I think it nailed the spot - Everyone who sent feedback commented how realistic the characterization of the main character was.

The last lit story that I submitted was supposed to be first-person female, but I didn't work to change my personal writing style, so it's still obviously a Raphy piece. I like to think of it less like the way a woman would write and more like the way I would write what a woman told me.

My NaNo novel is from the point of view of a white canadian male. The 1st in that trilogy is from the point of view of a Chinese female, and the 2nd is from the point of view of a, well, that one's kinda complicated. He's supposed to be an ex-US army special forces Major, but he's actually a British army SAS major working sort of undercover.

 

[Guest]

People are people and are different only from the outside.

Gauche, I don't understand this, you saying this. Yes, people are people the world 'round, but it is the outside that makes them unique, or different, e.g., the families they were born into, therefore the culture, plus the culture they were born into if it differs from the family's origins. Perhaps I don't understand what you meant, but could not let this pass.

Perdita

 

[gauchecritic]

people are people

They have a mother and father, they often have siblings, they are born (traumatically) and they die. They communicate, they laugh, they love. At some point in their lives they have religion. At some point in their lives they know they will live forever. At some point in their lives they realise they are going to die. They are all, without exception, from being born until they die, the centre of their own universe.

The only difference between the Australian Aborigine and the cultured Parisienne is how they see each other.

Writing about people is something that you can never do wrong. Writing about how people are perceived is another matter entirely.

Gauche